[quote=Yoda]Worst defense ever? They weren't even the worst defense that year...in their division. Thirteen teams in the NFL gave up more points during the 2003 season than the Chiefs.

Also, not to be rude, but if you're just going to cherry-pick one out of every five arguments I make and ignore the others, I'd just as soon spend my time on something else.[/quote]

[quote=Bill]Good idea, Austruck. ;)[/quote]

[quote=BobbyB]13-3 Chiefs!? How'd they get that way? Certainly wasn't their defense. If you'll remember correctly, the 2003 Kansas City Chiefs were quite possibly the worst defense ever.

Indianapolis didn't punt the entire game. 

And yes, the Broncos were not that great (Average) in 03 and 04[/quote]

[quote=Austruck]You guys are just comparing apples to oranges. (I like to come into this discussion every half dozen shouts or so just to make a comment to stir up trouble.) :eek:[/quote]

[quote=Yoda]Nothing? What about torching the 13-3 Chiefs in 2003? Not to mention that the "average" Broncos were actually 10-6 both years. Performed above-average against the beastly Steeler defense last year, too.

Plus, there's, like, all that other stuff I said, too.[/quote]

[quote=BobbyB]But that's the thing, it's totally different to take away two average Bronco teams that he beat up on. What has he done against the best? Nothing! That's my point.[/quote]

[quote=Yoda]Yet another bump.[/quote]

[quote=Yoda][quote]And no, let's take away Peyton's two INCREDIBLE Wild Card performances against Denver and what has he done? I'll come back and give you those numbers later to show you his total stats outside of those two games.[/quote]
If you're going to take away his games against Denver to make your point, there's no reason I can't take away the two against New England to make mine. All playoff games are pressure-packed. Pretending the New England games are fundamentally different defies logic, and moreover, it's meaningless if you wait until afterwards to do so.

And, again, even if you could demonstrate a tendency to perform poorer in big games, that still wouldn't substantiate the idea that it is innate, rather than the product of random variation. By definition, "clutch" situations must be rare. And that means small sample sizes, which inevitably leads to statistical fluctuations.

This is perfectly evidenced in the fact that Derek Jeter and Tom Brady, two athletes who have spent a great deal of time in the postseason (and whom are revered as "clutch" performers almost without exception), in fact have put up very similar numbers in the regular season. Why? Because random fluctuations average out as more games are played.

Of course, it's a lot more fun to pretend that players alternatively possess mythical poise or crumble under the spotlight. But there's nothing to support that idea, which is why when you ask someone for specifics, they never have them. They simply don't exist.[/quote]

[quote=Yoda][quote]Scattered at bats with A-Rod. I don't remember specifics, but it's happened.[/quote]
How do you know it's happened, then? If it has, why wouldn't there be statistical evidence of it? Is this all based on nothing more than a gut feeling?

[quote]Heck, he was a huge part of the greatest choke of all time. If A-Rod couldn't win when they had a 3-0 lead, then A-Rod won't be able to ever make it.[/quote]
"A-Rod couldn't win"? What about the other 24 Yankees? These were players who had come through in the clutch numerous times over the years en route to four World Series titles, and they all, collectively, choked. Now, if you wish you can try to attribute this to Rodriguez's mystical choking powers (I guess it's contagious?), but a far more sensible response is to recognize it as yet another rebuttal to the idea of "clutch" performance.[/quote]

[quote=BobbyB]Totals

7 Games
144 Completions
263 Attempts
54.7% Completion Percentage
6 Touchdowns 
7 Interceptions 
1627 Yards 

Averages

20.5 Completions
37.5 Attempts
0.8 Touchdowns
1 Interception
232.4

Take away those two Denver games and his stats aren't that great[/quote]

[quote=BobbyB]Scattered at bats with A-Rod. I don't remember specifics, but it's happened.

Heck, he was a huge part of the greatest choke of all time. If A-Rod couldn't win when they had a 3-0 lead, then A-Rod won't be able to ever make it.

And no, let's take away Peyton's two INCREDIBLE Wild Card performances against Denver and what has he done? I'll come back and give you those numbers later to show you his total stats outside of those two games.[/quote]