[quote=Austruck][quote=John McClane]It's just if you want to get something done because your religion says it's "wrong," well I disagree with that 100%. At least come up with a reasonable/secular excuse. If you can't, it's probably something that shouldn't be regulated.[/quote]

Can you give me an example of what you mean here? Because honestly, I haven't a clue where you're trying to go with this statement. 

Also, why is coming up with a secular excuse suddenly the same thing as reasonable? I think you have an extremely distorted view of Christianity, my friend, if you think that a Christian officeholder doing something because of his beliefs would *automatically* be unreasonable.[/quote]

[quote=Austruck]I think it makes perfect sense for a practicing Christian to hold political office in America. Most (most) of the morality is the same already, so it's not really a stretch.[/quote]

[quote=Austruck]And please don't go into the "separation of church and state" stuff.[/quote]

[quote=Austruck]John, exactly where do you think most of these American ideals originally came from? If you had to pick a religion that America's founding documents leaned on the most, it would be Christianity. It would be a religion based on a deity. 

Your assumption that someone *cannot* be a good Christian and also an officeholder means you don't really understand those very founding documents you say you love.[/quote]

[quote=John McClane]Obama won Virginia. :)[/quote]

[quote=John McClane]I never said you can't believe in a religion and uphold American values at the same time. Tons of presidents have done so. It's just if you want to get something done because your religion says it's "wrong," well I disagree with that 100%. At least come up with a reasonable/secular excuse. If you can't, it's probably something that shouldn't be regulated.[/quote]

[quote=Yoda]That doesn't change Mick's point, which is that anyone who does not put God first in their religion obviously doesn't have much of a religion.

So, to say what you're saying, you're excluding anyone genuinely religious.

In my mind, there's nothing about putting God first that precludes any candidate from simultaneously upholding America's fundamental ideals. People take all sorts of genuine, honest vows, and none of them are considered null and void simply because their first allegiance is to their God.[/quote]

[quote=John McClane]We're electing people to uphold America, not Christian, Judaism, or Islam. If they can't accept that fact then they shouldn't run. That's my opinion on the matter, and I will hold it firmly till the day I die. It's not like I don't get what you're saying; I do. I just think it's stupid considering what they're running for, IMO.[/quote]

[quote=Lennon][quote=Bill]I've heard of that, but I also heard that it was bad. Am I wrong?[/quote]

well, I liked it ALOT, except for the horrible ending, it had you going, made you stop, then tried to get you back in but it was too late.

Also, this movie was basically crafted for Joaquin who did AMAZING.[/quote]

[quote=Bill]I've heard of that, but I also heard that it was bad. Am I wrong?[/quote]

[quote=Lennon]We Own the Night comes on DVD today! w00tness![/quote]