The Pope

Dreams is freedom

09-15-10

sick to death already of the publicity about the pope's visit to the UK, and the fact that the taxpayer is forking out �12 million excluding the police costs to pay for it.

and now one of his minions has liked the UK to a third world country. Great. According to the BBC , Vatican sources said "... his "Third World" comment referred to the UK's multicultural society" ...hmmm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11317441

will.15

Semper Fooey

09-15-10

The taxpayers there has to shell out that kind of money to welcome the least popular Pope in my lifetime. Twelve million dollars would be a nice down payment for the church in paying off all those pedophile priest lawsuits.

mark f

Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.

09-15-10

That's almost $19 million. Wow, first Oprah and now the Pope...

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rufnek

Registered User

09-15-10

The Pope is coming to the UK? Hmm, guess that explains reports on Ghost Hunters "reality" TV of a strange whirling sound from Henry VIII's tomb.

Will the Pope be there for Guy Fawkes Night and is he to light the bonfire?

honeykid

MoFo Whisperer

09-15-10

What's really annoying me about the Pope's visit isn't that he's coming over or, really, that we're paying half the costs because its a State visit. It's that it is a State visit, when that 'State' consists of about 30 people! However, if it gets mentioned that we shouldn't pay for it, blah, blah, blah, the argument back seems to be that it's a State visit and that we shouldn't be seen as not wanting to be hospitable on the World stage. As the Catholic Church is worth anything from 10's of billions to 100's of billions of pounds, I'm guessing they can afford the extra �12m a lot more than we can, at the moment.

Thursday Next

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

09-16-10

Originally Posted by christine

According to the BBC , Vatican sources said "... his "Third World" comment referred to the UK's multicultural society" ...hmmm

Is that supposed to make it better? That makes him sound like he might have been being racist rather than just making a comment about the queues and general chaos at Heathrow.

The Vatican isn't really a country. The Pope isn't really a head of state, he's head of a religion. I can't help agreeing with this letter that was sent to the Guardian (and it's not often I say that):

We, the undersigned, share the view that Pope Ratzinger should not be given the honour of a state visit to this country. We believe that the pope, as a citizen of Europe and the leader of a religion with many adherents in the UK, is of course free to enter and tour our country. However, as well as a religious leader, the pope is a head of state, and the state and organisation of which he is head has been responsible for:

Opposing the distribution of condoms and so increasing large families in poor countries and the spread of Aids.

Promoting segregated education.

Denying abortion to even the most vulnerable women.

Opposing equal rights for lesbians, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

Failing to address the many cases of abuse of children within its own organisation.

The state of which the pope is head has also resisted signing many major human rights treaties and has formed its own treaties ("concordats") with many states which negatively affect the human rights of citizens of those states. In any case, we reject the masquerading of the Holy See as a state and the pope as a head of state as merely a convenient fiction to amplify the international influence of the Vatican.

Stephen Fry, Professor Richard Dawkins, Professor Susan Blackmore, Terry Pratchett, Philip Pullman, Ed Byrne, Baroness Blackstone, Ken Follett, Professor AC Grayling, Stewart Lee, Baroness Massey, Claire Rayner, Adele Anderson, John Austin MP, Lord Avebury, Sian Berry, Professor Simon Blackburn, Sir David Blatherwick, Sir Tom Blundell, Dr Helena Cronin, Dylan Evans, Hermione Eyre, Lord Foulkes, Professor Chris French, Natalie Haynes, Johann Hari, Jon Holmes, Lord Hughes, Robin Ince, Dr Michael Irwin, Professor Steve Jones, Sir Harold Kroto, Professor John Lee, Zoe Margolis, Jonathan Meades, Sir Jonathan Miller, Diane Munday, Maryam Namazie, David Nobbs, Professor Richard Norman, Lord O'Neill, Simon Price, Paul Rose, Martin Rowson, Michael Rubenstein, Joan Smith, Dr Harry Stopes-Roe, Professor Raymond Tallis, Lord Taverne, Peter Tatchell, Baroness Turner, Professor Lord Wedderburn of Charlton QC FBA, Ann Marie Waters, Professor Wolpert, Jane Wynne Willson

But in general, yeah, I'm a bit sick of all the publicity about it.

christine

Dreams is freedom

09-16-10

Originally Posted by Thursday Next

Is that supposed to make it better? That makes him sound like he might have been being racist rather than just making a comment about the queues and general chaos at Heathrow.

I'm pretty sure a racist comment was exactly what he made. Why else would he have failed to defend his statement properly and chicken out of coming? That attitude stinks, and the catholic church is stuffed full of old men with outdated views that haven't changed in decades, centuries even.

Although I agree with the sentiments of that letter in the Guardian, the signatories made me smile...Stephen Fry is like some kind of ersatz president in the UK now, making paternalistic pronouncements on anything and everything

Caitlyn

MoFo Patrol

09-16-10

I think it's pretty ridiculous myself for it to cost that much money in the first place... but I agree with honeykid, the Vatican should be footing the bill instead of anyone else having to shoulder the burden... it is, after all, apparently the Popes choice to visit...

Originally Posted by will.15

I don't think twelve million is even a drop in the bucket... but it would be a nice start. I've often wondered what the people who booed Sin�ad O'Connor off the stage and made so much fun of her after she tried to bring awareness of the sexual abuse going on within the Catholic Church by tearing up the Popes photo thought after the whole sordid mess became public knowledge...

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linespalsy

style over substance

09-16-10

Aren't a great many third world countries predominantly Catholic?

I wonder how they feel about a crack like this.

Or maybe he was referring to the fact that they're only shelling out $12 million.

"Peasants! I won't do it for 50 mil."

honeykid

MoFo Whisperer

09-16-10

The whole cost of the visit is �24m, with each party paying half the costs.

This issue of paedophile priests is another of those things that I thought everybody knew, but there there was (mock) outrage when it was 'revealed.

Paedophiles (and homosexuals) in the Church was just a fact of life for as long as I can remember. I also knew that they were just moved on when anything came close to being revealed. Another thing I 'know' that others seem to not, take a look at the amount of priests convicted and inprisoned for child sex abuse who are back in the Church.

Who were these people who didn't know? It's the same with the MP's over here and their abuse of their expenses. Who didn't know about that? The next one may well be how 'some' tabloid papers obtain some of their biggest stories. Again, any not know about this?

will.15

Semper Fooey

09-16-10

Originally Posted by honeykid

It is because the Catholic Church is about forgiveness (except if a woman has an abortion because we all know aborting a three month fetus is a much worse unforgivable sin in the eyes of God than His representative on Earth having sex with a child).

mack

start with me

09-17-10

now as a person of practicing faith (non-catholic, tho), even i balk at that price. unlike yourselves, i see no problem with a church person visiting countries for the exact purpose of doing "god's work." agreement with their doctrine aside, we can all agree they think its their life purpose.

my problem is......i thought the whole point of doing "god's work" was to make it free. the thought that someone or some country would have to pay millions of dollars to receive a visit from God (or his emissary), smacks of the kind of financial abuses the catholic church is historically known for. its one of the things that drove protestants away from them in the first place. i get that a body of people looking for salvation or ecclesiastical understanding might invite a spiritual leader to come speak to them, and in doing so, might be so intent on receiving that person that they might foot the bill to get them there. however, in cases like those, the people want that person to come. this does not seem like such a case. in other cases, the recipient people are too poor and the church, or its members foot the bill. conversely, the recipient people may have the money, and the "spiritual leader" or its member organization may be to poor to convey themselves to the people, and in that case, the "people pay to bring me to them" scenario makes sense. but from what is said above - the Vatican isnt having money problems, such that poor nations covet their presence, and they are too poor to forward priests on to them.

the point is not to offend the very people you seek help. if most of the "people" dont want to see him, or pay their tax money to see him, i'd say he's doing more harm than good by forcing himself on them. and if he really seeks their best interest, how is driving them away the right play?

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Thursday Next

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.

09-17-10

The first fifteen minutes of the ten o clock news devoted to coverage of the Pope's visit last night. What other religious leader - or head of state - would get so much coverage?

christine

Dreams is freedom

09-17-10

someone had better stop me from listening to the news and reading about this visit. It's winding me up something cruel! I am an atheist but I'm not averse to people believing whatever they want to. I can't stand Richard Dawkins, his anti religious fervour just makes me uncomfortable....I know it's the pope's mission to be evangelical for catholicism but him warning against secularism in the UK with words like this:

As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a 'reductive vision of the person and his destiny'

and

In this challenging enterprise, may it always maintain its respect for those traditional values and cultural expressions that more aggressive forms of secularism no longer value or even tolerate.

just totally disrespects anyone who leads their life without a religious faith.

Ach this from them, honestly makes me think of my good ol' nan's store of bible quotes: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

DexterRiley

Keep on Rockin in the Free World

09-17-10

Originally Posted by christine

The Doublespeak is what has always bothered me about the Vatican.

On the one hand, the pope likens aetheism to nazi tyranny

"Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live."

On the other, they can't reconcile this:

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honeykid

MoFo Whisperer

09-18-10

That and the fact that they turned a blind eye to the Holocaust and refused Jews sanctuary... And he's a former member of the Hitler Youth... And, well, he's a religious leader... And a politician... And has the eyes of a killer.

rufnek

Registered User

09-22-10

Texas ponied up the dough for one Pope's visit to the state some years ago--had a big parade for him in downtown San Antone with a big turnout. Even gave him specially designed handmade boots and a really fine 20X beaver western hat. (My 20X sold for more than $300 when I got it years before, so with inflation, this gift was likely top dollar). But Texas is richer than most countries, so it wasn't too big a strain.

On the bright side, he might get sick in the UK and be subjected to socialized medicine, which will probably do him in. Didn't the British government say something just recently about reducing funding for public care because of the recession?

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

09-22-10

Originally Posted by rufnek

The new coalition gov pledged to go beyond ring-fencing and actually up the NHS's funding in real terms. Lord knows if that's true tho. They're part of the lizard elite run by the pope, so I'm told

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christine

Dreams is freedom

09-25-10

Originally Posted by honeykid

And he's a former member of the Hitler Youth...

thank goodness I went on holiday when I did cos I missed the last bit of his visit. But did you notice Hun, when they repeat that piece of fact above on teh news now they always say "the Pope, who was forced to be in the Hitler Youth..."

Originally Posted by rufnek

I dunno, it's a wonder there's anyone left alive in this country with this socialist based medicine malarky

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