What makes a great director?

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I am Jack's sense of overused quote
While reading the thread about Nolan vs Fincher (link at bottom of post) I noticed the arguments seemed to be subjective--each member seemed to defend the director he/she liked by asserting their styles were superior.

This led me to wonder, how does one objectively declare the superiority of a director? What, in fact, makes a great director? I realize these questions have been hinted at in the auteur/homage discussion, but I want to raise this as its own thread.

If we are to assert the value of film as art, we must have objective criteria by which to judge the artist--the director. A film director combines some aspects of theater directors (acting, staging, setting, blocking, etc.), aspects of photographer (shot structure, lighting, framing, cutting, etc) , and some which are uniquely film (editing, mixing).

It is easy to say a great director simply accomplishes all of these tasks well, but this arguments seems to fall apart too easily. For instance, a director who shoots nothing but documentary films because he cannot handle actors cannot be deprived of a great directing status. Likewise, Kevin Smith's directing job in Clerks is uncanny, despite some major lighting problems. So certainly, these do not make adequate criteria.

Having faith in my taste, I watched closely five films I consider to be amongst the greatest in American Film History (I chose to stay with American films because my knowledge is of them is above average, but my knowledge of foreign cinema I consider lacking). I tired to vary the genre of films so I could look for an overarching simiilarity: High Noon, Citizen Kane, The Godfather, Star Wars, and Halloween.

What was striking was the consistency of each of these films. Each film set forth, for lack of a better word, a thesis. These directors then used the ENTIRE FILM to explore that thesis. For instance, Lucas's thesis seemed to be the eventual triumph of humble good over arrogant evil. Consider then, the costuming-the Rebels had faces, the Imperials had masks. Consider the staging--a lone Han Solo covers the escape of the Millennium Falcon by placing himself at odds against a squad of stormtroopers--them arrogantly in the open, him desperately seeking cover. Consider the shot framing--the way Vader seems to always enter from the gate of some foreboding hell.

It was not simply a thematic consistency which makes these movies and their directors great. Nor is it there exploration of film as its own device in creating art, and not just a way to tape theater. It is the entertainment value. I am not going to sit here and tell you this is the most important aspect of directing. While rare, a movie can be entertaining while poorly made, and well made but dull (which probably happens more often). However, being able to grab and hold the attention of an audience is an imporant aspect of a director.
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While reading the thread about Nolan vs Fincher (link at bottom of post) I noticed the arguments seemed to be subjective--each member seemed to defend the director he/she liked by asserting their styles were superior.

This led me to wonder, how does one objectively declare the superiority of a director? What, in fact, makes a great director? I realize these questions have been hinted at in the auteur/homage discussion, but I want to raise this as its own thread.

If we are to assert the value of film as art, we must have objective criteria by which to judge the artist--the director. A film director combines some aspects of theater directors (acting, staging, setting, blocking, etc.), aspects of photographer (shot structure, lighting, framing, cutting, etc) , and some which are uniquely film (editing, mixing).

It is easy to say a great director simply accomplishes all of these tasks well, but this arguments seems to fall apart too easily. For instance, a director who shoots nothing but documentary films because he cannot handle actors cannot be deprived of a great directing status. Likewise, Kevin Smith's directing job in Clerks is uncanny, despite some major lighting problems. So certainly, these do not make adequate criteria.

Having faith in my taste, I watched closely five films I consider to be amongst the greatest in American Film History (I chose to stay with American films because my knowledge is of them is above average, but my knowledge of foreign cinema I consider lacking). I tired to vary the genre of films so I could look for an overarching simiilarity: High Noon, Citizen Kane, The Godfather, Star Wars, and Halloween.

What was striking was the consistency of each of these films. Each film set forth, for lack of a better word, a thesis. These directors then used the ENTIRE FILM to explore that thesis. For instance, Lucas's thesis seemed to be the eventual triumph of humble good over arrogant evil. Consider then, the costuming-the Rebels had faces, the Imperials had masks. Consider the staging--a lone Han Solo covers the escape of the Millennium Falcon by placing himself at odds against a squad of stormtroopers--them arrogantly in the open, him desperately seeking cover. Consider the shot framing--the way Vader seems to always enter from the gate of some foreboding hell.

It was not simply a thematic consistency which makes these movies and their directors great. Nor is it there exploration of film as its own device in creating art, and not just a way to tape theater. It is the entertainment value. I am not going to sit here and tell you this is the most important aspect of directing. While rare, a movie can be entertaining while poorly made, and well made but dull (which probably happens more often). However, being able to grab and hold the attention of an audience is an imporant aspect of a director.

Alright Gohan mate.

First of all, I wanted to say that this is a VERY interesting thread that you've started and was thinking about starting one myself until I saw your one. I also felt you raised some interesting and debatable points in regards to how a director should be considered great.

Secondly, however, I felt that there is one word that is controversial when it comes to discussing a topic such a this..that word is subjective. No matter what anyone says, their opinions will be subjective and mine, yours or anybody else will be veyr different, I think. That said, i'll contribute and state what I think makes a great director.

In my opinion, a great director is one who approaches a particular film with an innovative or tentative style, but still aims to remain respectful to that genre or sub-genre. I know, it's easier said than done. In this case, directors who take the autuer/artistic approach can sometimes hinder a film project rather than better it.

This is why I feel that Christopher Nolan makes a fantastic director. Has developed a style that's very evident in Following, Memento, Insomnia and The Prestige . However, in Batman Begins he didn't become egotistical and decided to direct the movie in a way that was a consensus, by that, I mean a film that eveybody could get into.

More on this later.



fbi
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there are no rules to what makes a good director. Its all about the individual and what he/she brings to the movie.

A good director knows what to do to make the film work. They wont indulge in unnecessary art and visuals just to show off. They take a script and enhance the emotion. Thats what i feel a directors job is.

he/she also needs to have a vision and can see years ahead. They can make a film that will work 20 years later. A bad director will make films that seem good at the time but cannot stand the test of time.

which is why u watch some films years later and they seem very dated.

once again there are no rules but generally, i feel constant close ups of actors faces also shows bad directing. It just feels cheap and amateur.

I like john.g avildsen (rocky 1 and 5. karate kid) m night shyamalan (signs and unbreakable) adn spielberg



A good director, is one that gets the best out of his/her actors
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I am Jack's sense of overused quote

Secondly, however, I felt that there is one word that is controversial when it comes to discussing a topic such a this..that word is subjective. No matter what anyone says, their opinions will be subjective and mine, yours or anybody else will be veyr different, I think.
I do not think that is true. Art can have objective criteria to which pertains to its goodness and badness. Proof of this lies in universally rejected (Wing Commander) and universally accepted (Citizen Kane) films. If everyone you know agrees some movies are better than others, than their must be some underlying objective criteria.


In my opinion, a great director is one who approaches a particular film with an innovative or tentative style, but still aims to remain respectful to that genre or sub-genre. I know, it's easier said than done. In this case, directors who take the autuer/artistic approach can sometimes hinder a film project rather than better it.
I disagree with this. I do not feel a film intrinsically needs innovation or to adhere to the norms of a genre. Lucas rejected the staples of sci-fi, combining elements of fantasy and swashbuckling with the space faring adventures.

A good director, is one that gets the best out of his/her actors
This ignores the value of documentary filmmakers as autuers, which I insist they can be.



Thursday Next's Avatar
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
These directors then used the ENTIRE FILM to explore that thesis. For instance, Lucas's thesis seemed to be the eventual triumph of humble good over arrogant evil. Consider then, the costuming-the Rebels had faces, the Imperials had masks. Consider the staging--a lone Han Solo covers the escape of the Millennium Falcon by placing himself at odds against a squad of stormtroopers--them arrogantly in the open, him desperately seeking cover. Consider the shot framing--the way Vader seems to always enter from the gate of some foreboding hell.
I wouldn't have thought Star Wars was a particular good example for highlighting particular directorial style, considering that Lucas didn't direct the whole trilogy, yet there is no substantial differentiation in style or 'thesis' between the films.



I am Jack's sense of overused quote
I wouldn't have thought Star Wars was a particular good example for highlighting particular directorial style, considering that Lucas didn't direct the whole trilogy, yet there is no substantial differentiation in style or 'thesis' between the films.
I am not speaking of the Trilogy as a whole, because I do not consider Empire and Jedi to be the same caliber film as the original Star Wars.



I do not think that is true. Art can have objective criteria to which pertains to its goodness and badness. Proof of this lies in universally rejected (Wing Commander) and universally accepted (Citizen Kane) films. If everyone you know agrees some movies are better than others, than their must be some underlying objective criteria.

I disagree with this. I do not feel a film intrinsically needs innovation or to adhere to the norms of a genre. Lucas rejected the staples of sci-fi, combining elements of fantasy and swashbuckling with the space faring adventures.
Ok, your first point was very good, and I pretty much agree with some of it. It's true, there films that are generally accepted as being rubbish and masterpieces...but you have to remember that these are based on general opinions, which, in turn, makes it subjective. Films such as The Fountain had audiences split. Some thought it was a pretentious load of rubbish, others thought it was a sci fi masterpiece. When an audience evaluates a film, the response isn't always unified. I think that's what you're not understanding.

Also, you contradicted yourself when you say that a film does not need to be innovative and adhere to the familiar tropes of a genre. You point out that George 'overrated' Lucas rejected the staples of the sci fi genre by adding it elements of other genres...wouldn't this be a form of innovation? Specially at that time when most genres were simply genre movies. By combing those elements he transcended the norms of the sci-fi genre, thus being innovative

You see, Christopher Nolan said it best when he said that directors nowadays don't challenge themselves like they should. Directors should have the freedoms of novel writers and always be ahead of their time. Stanley Kubrick, Quentin Tarantino and Nicolas Roeg are great examples of directors who were ahead of their time and attempted to revolutionise cinema rather than just contribute to it.



A system of cells interlinked
Well, I only have one rule of thumb when it comes to directors. ANy director that makes a film that starts with an M, ends in O, and has ement in the middle, clearly can't make a film to save his life!



Kidding!
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I wouldn't have thought Star Wars was a particular good example for highlighting particular directorial style, considering that Lucas didn't direct the whole trilogy, yet there is no substantial differentiation in style or 'thesis' between the films.
This is highly debatable, however it is important to consider Lucas' efforts throughout the trilogy. It is true that he is not credited at director on Empire and Jedi, but he relinquished that post so he could have more time to direct towards the overall goals of his trilogy. And Marquand was a hack- Lucas basically directed Jedi from the backseat.

Originally Posted by gohansrage
Lucas rejected the staples of sci-fi, combining elements of fantasy and swashbuckling with the space faring adventures.
Was he rejecting the staples of Sci-Fi, perhaps, because the Star Wars Trilogy is, i dont know, A FANTASY? Get your genres right before you go making outrageous judgements like that.



Stanley Kubrick, Quentin Tarantino and Nicolas Roeg are great examples of directors who were ahead of their time and attempted to revolutionise cinema rather than just contribute to it.
If you ever put SK and QT in the same directorial bracket again im going to smack the hot pockets out of you.



Well, I only have one rule of thumb when it comes to directors. ANy director that makes a film that starts with an M, ends in O, and has ement in the middle, clearly can't make a film to save his life!



Kidding!

Are you trying to get a rise out of me, detective?

Lol, sorry just felt that was the perfect time to quote The Usual Suspects . But yeah, you had me going for a bit there!



It's quite hard to assess a director's talent unless they're an independent auteur as in most respects since you'd need seperate their personal input and style from all the other influences, at least to an extent. Also, a great director isn't necessarily consistant, they can have flops here and there, or perhaps that is what makes a good director, having a clean record of making good films.

Subjectivity can be argued for enjoyment of films, but there are bad films and there are good films, whether you enjoy them is a seperate matter.

And The Prestige, heard of diversity? When i saw your posts i knew they'd bum Nolan, chat about something different, mate.
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When it comes to directors, artists and bands, I have a personal rule-of-thumb. One has to make three excellent works before I can even consider them "great". If they make it to five I will love them forever.



Thursday Next's Avatar
I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
This is highly debatable, however it is important to consider Lucas' efforts throughout the trilogy. It is true that he is not credited at director on Empire and Jedi, but he relinquished that post so he could have more time to direct towards the overall goals of his trilogy. And Marquand was a hack- Lucas basically directed Jedi from the backseat.
No doubt Lucas was directing the 'overall goals' of the trilogy, and obviously had a lot to do with the sequels, even if he isn't credited as the director. Which surely means all the more that the 'director' as credited is not necessarily the driving creative force of a film, deserving of all the credit or blame of a project?


Was he rejecting the staples of Sci-Fi, perhaps, because the Star Wars Trilogy is, i dont know, A FANTASY? Get your genres right before you go making outrageous judgements like that.
But a fantasy set in space. In choosing to make a space fantasy, he could be said to be rejecting the staples of what people expect from a space film (i.e. sci-fi). At least I think that's gohansrage is getting at...



It's quite hard to assess a director's talent unless they're an independent auteur as in most respects since you'd need seperate their personal input and style from all the other influences, at least to an extent.

Subjectivity can be argued for enjoyment of films, but there are bad films and there are good films, whether you enjoy them is a seperate matter.

And The Prestige, heard of diversity? When i saw your posts i knew they'd bum Nolan, chat about something different, mate.
Hmm, I see where you're getting at but disagree. No matter how you look at it, a person's experience in watching a film is ALWAYS subjective. Theres just no way to get around it. There are hundreds of people who like 'bad films'. Damn, I know people that generally like A Weekend At Bernies 2. It's perspective of the spectator that's important.

I think there are three different categories when describing a director's approach to material:

1) A director using his/hers signature on a film text.

2) A director that stick purely to the conventions of the studio requirements and genre.

3) A director that incorporates both.

I prefer those that do three. Using signatures only when it is necessary to do so. And yes, I do think that Christopher Nolan is a good example of that type of director.

Pyro, um, I am as diverse as they get. I only mentioned Nolan as a short example, but I did mention others. I mentioned legends like Kubrick, Noeg and Hitchcock. I do talk about other stuff.



I am Jack's sense of overused quote
Was he rejecting the staples of Sci-Fi, perhaps, because the Star Wars Trilogy is, i dont know, A FANTASY? Get your genres right before you go making outrageous judgements like that.
We can sit here and debate Star Wars is fantasy or sci-fi until we are blue in the face. If you would like, think of it this way: Lucas either defied staples of sci-fi or fantasy.



I am Jack's sense of overused quote
I'm not entirely sure you would call it a debate- if it were to happen.



The weird thing is I actually agree with you. That is why I was so pissed at the mini chlorian (I am not even going to bother looking up how to spell that) thing in Phantom Menace. I was like, "NO! Leave the sci-fi to Arthur Clarke."

Because the fact of the matter is, im always right...