The 2008 Election

That he might turn on us, and that hes not as experienced as John McCain. But i probably wont vote for John McCain because of Sarah Palin.

I really don't understand why should anyone be afraid of him, yes, he's new to the spotlight, but the fear argument works both ways, what if McCain were worse than Bush! There's always risk, IMHO, try the guy that you have at least a better chance that it is a new, and has a possibly better approach.

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...uh the post is up there...

Yeh thats true. I am going to give him a chance. I dont want another Bush!

Gobama!

That he's going to turn on you in what way?

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http://www.last.fm/user/diezelpower/

Like turn on the country. I dont know how i just dont have a great feeling about him. He looks suspicious to me.

Yowza...I best not continue with this line of questioning.

what?

I like his views but i still dont know about him

My apologies for any confusion. I'll try to explain myself better: being a war hero, for example isn't really an "ability," and says nothing about his abilities as a politician or communicator, but it is undeniably something about McCain that almost all voters find to be positive.

I think the idea I'm trying to express is better expressed with a hypothetical candidate: imagine a man who was a war hero, had views in line with most mainstream voters, and was very handsome. These things would make him a very enticing candidate. But suppose he stuttered horribly, or just had a horrible tendency of putting things in a very awkward way. He would be a fundamentally attractive candidate, but a bad politician.

The inverse would be someone with extreme views, or a poor record (either lacking in quality or quantity), but who was extremely good at putting the best face on whatever issue he was discussing. He would be a fundamentally flawed candidate, but a good politician. That's the distinction I'm making; I think McCain is a fundamentally strong candidate, and Obama a fundamentally flawed one, but that many mitigating factors (some fair, some not) have contributed to what is probably going to be an Obama victory.

Sure. Which is why I'm restricting my observations to things that people feel are positive or negative almost across the board. No matter who they're voting for, the overwhelming majority of American voters feel that sacrificing for your country and reaching across the aisle on tough issues are, on net, very positive things. They also mostly feel that lacking experience is a bad thing. This does not mean either sentiment is tantamount, or overrides everything else, however. People can simply be persuaded that other factors outweigh these pros and cons.

I don't disagree. It is true that framing and perception are a huge part of politics...but isn't that largely a bad thing? The person making the best case for their plan isn't necessarily the person with the best plan. Judging a candidate based on how well they sell their idea is like rendering a verdict based on who has the better lawyer. It's our job, as responsible voters, to try to separate the fact from the spin, not to vote for the better spinner.

He's losing for a number of reasons, not all of which are within his control, and not all of which are, frankly, even reasonable. And while it would be an oversimplification to suggest that McCain is simply losing because he's a Republican, it'd be crazier to suggest that it hasn't hurt him greatly. I don't think Obama wins in any other recent election cycle. The best decision he's made over the course of the entire campaign was the timing of its inception.

Conflate means merge, though in retrospect I probably wasn't using it quite right anyway. I probably should have used "confuse."

I'm not saying that intelligent people make dumb decisions sometimes, though; I'm saying something much more specific than that. I'm saying that people seem to be focusing more and more on how something sounds, or is perceived, as opposed to whether or not it is good or true. A good example of this would be people who think a debate is a tie because one candidate made better points, but the other came off better (nicer, calmer, smarter, etc). The idea that these things do matter (which is sometimes true) is being regularly confused with the idea that they should.

I've seen a couple documentaries about McCain in bits and pieces, but don't remember seeing anything like that in them. I'd be interested if you come across the title.

Well, for me his positions on key issues, like; Iraq, economic reform, and openess to other view points, like working with Lugar on keeping nuclear weapons from terrorists, are the very reasons I voted for him. That's my reason though, I just think people should consider the candidates positions and which you believe represents them.

Anyone willing to distill each candidates views for a confused Brit? im getting tired of hearing debates and interviews and blah blah blah and both of them saying 'my opponent did this in 2000 and rah rah rah'.

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Undercoverlovers 100 REDUX

It is possible (shudder I know) for Obama or McCain to be puppets. Which puppet do you think will be the best?

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

the one with its masters hand furthest up its a$$

Gobama!!

Paranoid? I said it made me nervous. Far from paranoid.

As usual, my main concern is which president is going to properly interpret the constitution while working to defend liberty. For me, that candidate is Bob Barr, the Libertarian Candidate.

If I had to choose between the two main candidates... on the civil liberties front, I think Obama is clearly the candidate that has been most critical of the civil infractions committed by the Bush administration, such as detaining people indefinitely, Phone Tapping, and interrogation that amounts to torture in most people's minds, including my own.

I like Obama's rejection of the extended executive power surrounding terrorism issues.

Economically, McCain seems like the better call, but the guy voted for the 700 Billion dollar mess we just got ourselves into, so who knows what he would actually DO economically...

I guess I would still be the left-leaning voter I have been in the past, and if forced to choose between the two, would vote for Obama.

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I believe paranoia refers to irrational fear or preoccupation with something, you fit quite well there...

But thanks for answering my question...

Don't patronize me. I know what paranoid means. I have an irrational preoccupation with what again? Because I post in the election thread a couple times a day?

If you think being concerned about civil liberties is being paranoid, you have a lot to learn. Yes, our freedoms are a concern of mine.

I am not irrationally preoccupied with anything, thanks. But go ahead, keep commenting on my life, something you know very little about. You only make yourself look worse on these boards.

John McCain reminds me of Don Quixote--romantic, but always wrong. He sees things that are false. Just look at some of the recent decisions he made.

1. Palin as a reinvigorating force: worked in the short-term, but her falir has died down.

2. Joe the Plumber: Now he's trying to spark his campaign with a fake plumber who will be helped under Obama's tax plan!

3. He said our economy is fundamentally sound: 'nuff said

He is too optimistic for his own good. Republicans always criticize Dems as being like Chamberlain...but imagine what McCain would do?

He sees things that aren't there because the facts don't matter...

A lot of stuff going on in the Obama campaign, from half hour ads to accepting pre paid credit cards to changing their stance on taxes and who is rich to a video where he is at a dinner with (hmmmm) Ayers giving a shout out to Rashid Khalidi of PLO fame. Just what is Obama's stance on Israel? Of course there is not much being said about any of this due to the closed-lipped media that obviously is biased. BTW, why is Obama accepting public financing after saying he would not? Why does he need a half hour to tell everyone the same tired old stuff? How much will someone bet against me that the audio of this ad will be so full of reverb that you may have to turn your sound down? So much more going on. Of course the only responses from Obama supporters will be to bash McCain and hang a Palin doll.