Lost (Possible Spoilers)

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A system of cells interlinked
I rewatched the season 2 finale and the season 3 opener. Desmond is damn cool. Hope they integrate him in more...

oooooo this is post #4500....

zoinks!
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Is this a legal thing? I know someone outside the US who wants to keep up with Season 3 but I don't want to pass along an illegal link or download...

Just asking to be sure...



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...especially since clicking on your link just shot up two IE windows, one of which was very weird, with blank frames with scroll bars, etc. Not feeling that great about the link, sorry.



Lets put a smile on that block
I answered your questions of LOSTNESS in the shoutbox Aus, havnt been much help im afraid.
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You were right Austruck, it was illegal and the user is now banned.
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A system of cells interlinked
Last night's ep was pretty damn good, I must say. Who is this new cat they are introducing? The dude with the golf clubs... Too many characters already!



The Adventure Starts Here!
They had that guy on last week's episode too, along with a new woman. The two of them were in the scene toward the end of that episode where Locke and Charlie are dragging Eko back to camp and a bunch of people run up to them. Before that Hurley comes back to camp and the (new) woman asks him why he was just getting around to telling them this now.

At the time last week, a bunch of folks on several Lost forums were a bit put off about them throwing a few new cast members into the mix and trying to make it look like they were hanging out as part of the main "clique" this whole time anyway.

My first thought about the new cast member(s) was this: It's so they can kill off someone else this season.

I thought it might have been Sawyer there for a while last night. Good mind games, as usual. Alcatraz, my eye. LOL.



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Oh, and don't think I didn't notice that there were now TWO actresses from HBO's "Deadwood" on the show this season. Hmmmm. Next we'll be seeing James Gandolfini breaking kneecaps of the Losties for not paying him back the coconuts they owe him.



This is going to sound horrible, but I'm glad they killed someone off, if only because I think there are just too many damn people to keep track of at the moment. They had quite a few to begin with, and keep adding them. As it is we're going entire episodes without seeing major characters...can't imagine why they'd keep adding secondary ones. Maybe it's just me, though.

That said, some very interesting twists this week...they may or may not kill what I think is the fan community's best theory on the show's primary secret...not sure yet. I think it could go either way.



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Well, supposedly the producers have already answered the biggest (best?) theory I've heard: They have insisted since the first season that this is not some kind of purgatory, although I swear it's a great theory that has stood the test of time. People who die on this island always die after having come to terms with their past in some way. Then they "pass on."

But, the producers say no. Then again, in the first season of a very expensive television show (costliest pilot ever produced), would you admit it if someone guessed your theory in the first few episodes??

They've also said that nothing on the island is actually "supernatural." So, explaining this smoke monster may take some doing.

I'm of several minds about the whole Ben-Juliet-Jack thing. Is Juliet being truthful on those Bob-Dylan cue cards? Or is this whole thing a mind game that also still includes Ben, in order to flush out Jack and see which side he's on? The x-rays seem real enough, since we saw Ben confront Juliet in private about them.

That was, though, a fun twist. This was the first episode this season (aside from the first one) where I kept thinking, "We're getting some ANSWERS in addition to the questions!" We never get answers, so getting any answers at all was fun.

I'm not sure what to think of Ben's comment about, "Why do you think Juliet looks so much like your ex-wife?" Ummmm ... wait, so you BROUGHT her there for this? Or did you just go through every Other on the island and pick the one who looked most like Sarah to go work on Jack's trust issues?

And who's the guy with the patch? Was it coincidence that he showed up just as they were looking or could he tell when the satellite TV in the Pearl hatch came on?

Again ... questions answered, yes. But more questions asked, YESSSSS!

Boy, I love this show. It's one of the few shows I watch and TALK TO while it's on! Even when I'm the only one here!



The Adventure Starts Here!
P.S. I was sure that one of the new cast members was toast. My first thought when they showed up was that they were there to facilitate someone dying ... but after a few scenes with them in it, I was kinda hoping it would be one of them!

Oh, and I realize that Colleen's gunshot death might not fit the purgatory/at-peace theory, but hey....What else is out there that accounts for quite so many facts?



Originally Posted by Austruck
Well, supposedly the producers have already answered the biggest (best?) theory I've heard: They have insisted since the first season that this is not some kind of purgatory, although I swear it's a great theory that has stood the test of time. People who die on this island always die after having come to terms with their past in some way. Then they "pass on."

But, the producers say no. Then again, in the first season of a very expensive television show (costliest pilot ever produced), would you admit it if someone guessed your theory in the first few episodes??
A fair point, but I do think we can probably take them at their word in those rare instances in which they're actually candid.

That said, my favorite theory is...

WARNING: "Lost" spoilers below
...that The Others are on the island to try to find ways to alter humanity's fundamental nature to stave off our eventual extinction.

This theory is based mainly on the Valenzetti Equation, which predicts when the human race will die out. The equation has 6 "core numerical values" (whatever those are), which are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42...IE: the code that has to be entered into the computer inside the Swan Hatch every 108 minutes (they add up to 108, too, by the way).

In something called the "Sri Lanka Video," which was part of "The Lost Experience" (one of those reality games running alongisde the show), Alvar Hanso of the Hanso Foundation implies that the 6 numbers represent 6 ways in which humanity might extinguish itself (nuclear warfare, chemical warfare, over-population, etc). He also says that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change those numbers.

The idea, then, would be that people are running experiments on the island in the hope of changing human nature, either biologically or pyschologically, to alter one of these numbers and either eliminate or delay our impending doom. Each hatch, presumably, would correspond to a particular number and the research that might alter it.

I don't know if this fits perfectly, but at first glance, it appears to. Altering polar bears so that they can live in a tropical climate sure seems like something we could apply to ourselves to help survive, and they've repeatedly used mind games and ultimately empty threats to keep rowdy survivors like Sawyer in line. Might the pyschological games really be experiments to see if man's more destructive, aggressive tendencies can be curbed?

Anyway, I don't know how realistic this all is, but it's certainly interesting. And it does appear to fit with the general tone of "The Others." None of them appear to be horrible people, or stereotypical bad guys. The worst of them seem to operate under a "lesser of two evils" mentality. Ben isn't actively killing people, but he seems to think that whatever they're doing is obviously worth some casualties. If he thinks he might be saving the world, well, his behavior suddenly makes an awful lot of sense.

Don't know if I did a good job of explaining that. Just thought it was a very interesting theory. Most of it is contingent on the alternate reality side-game...which may give the viewer more information, or may deliberately offer an alternative answer to whatever the show ends up telling us.

You can spend hours killing time and reading up on all this over on Lostpedia.


Originally Posted by Austruck
They've also said that nothing on the island is actually "supernatural." So, explaining this smoke monster may take some doing.
I agree. The thing appears almost sentient. They might just explain it away as a very advanced piece of technology, I suppose.


Originally Posted by Austruck
I'm of several minds about the whole Ben-Juliet-Jack thing. Is Juliet being truthful on those Bob-Dylan cue cards? Or is this whole thing a mind game that also still includes Ben, in order to flush out Jack and see which side he's on? The x-rays seem real enough, since we saw Ben confront Juliet in private about them.
Yeah, that's what I was wondering, too. There are a few possible explanations: 1) She doesn't like the whole project, whatever it is, and wants to stop it (or hinder it) by killing Ben. 2) She likes the project just fine, but she thinks Ben is doing a poor job. 3) She likes the project, likes Ben okay, but simply wants to be the one in charge. 4) She wants to test Jack's trust in her, for some unknown reason. Ben could be aware of it, or she could be doing it on her own, willing to let Ben die in order to find out.

Craziness. Definitely didn't see that one coming.


Originally Posted by Austruck
I'm not sure what to think of Ben's comment about, "Why do you think Juliet looks so much like your ex-wife?" Ummmm ... wait, so you BROUGHT her there for this? Or did you just go through every Other on the island and pick the one who looked most like Sarah to go work on Jack's trust issues?
Yeah, I dunno. I'm guessing the latter. Or maybe Ben's just messing with him again. It was awfully odd hearing him admit so much failing and weakness. He's not usually that candid.



Originally Posted by Austruck

Oh, and I realize that Colleen's gunshot death might not fit the purgatory/at-peace theory, but hey....What else is out there that accounts for quite so many facts?
While it's not my favourite theory, that happened off the Island. So if it were the theory, The Others'Island would be outside of purgatory?

Personally i hope the twist isn't too ambitious i.e. supernatural or too advanced in regards to our contemporary science.

Best episode of the Season so far, just as my doubts about the show were bubbling. Shame about Ecko but who's to say he's definitely dead. I'm suprised that considering the obvious power of the Black Smoke that it did attack in the way it did, sure there would've been a more effective method.

And is it now safe to assume that all the 'ghosts' people see on the Island are the Black Smoke? Definitely seems like a test on peoples reactions to the past and whether they can learn from their mistakes linking into the saving society/human race from self destruction.
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About the recent deaths:

Anna-Lucia: How did she come to terms with her past before dying? By knocking boots with Sawyer? I realize she had real world issues that sealed her fate on the show, but I didn't see her character really evolve, even though the character had a ton of potential to have a great arc...

Libby: W.T.F Just as they are starting to unviel her connection to Hurley's past, they randomly kill her off. Why explore those story threads with Hurley at all? Why was she in the hospital with him? It's like they set up this thread with Hurley starting to remember knowing her from somewhere, as if they were going to reveal a big secret about Hurley's past eventually, but then blew the whole thing off...

Ecko: Loved this character. His screen presence, history, his acting... At least he had an arc, though...



28 days...6 hours...42 minutes...12 seconds
Funny how those three characters that were killed off all had trafic violations.

It seems to me that the smoke monster can manifest itself into the losties past memories. The producers did say that we saw the monster before and we didn't know it, well here is our answer. It appeared as Jack's Dad, Walt, Yemi, Kate's Horse, so on. If the line "Why are you talking to me as if I were your brother" wasn't a dead giveaway, I don't know what is.

Juliet is totally evil. One of the cue cards said that "we have had enough of him" or something, but it seems that SHE is the only one who has problems with him, which was evident in the season 3 premire. It's obvious to me she is lying to Jack to:

A: Take over the whole others camp
B: She is actually working with BEN to get Jack to save his life.
> This is a theory posted by a fan that states it all has to do with "Free Will"

Months ago some people were reviewing Maternity Leave and I pointed out how strange Ethan was acting toward Claire's baby. It seemed very important to him that she willingly give up the child to them. In the end of the episode, she was so delirous that she actually did. I launched into some other examples of how the Others seemed to abide by some type of code of rules... all having to do with free will. And this week, I'm patting myself on the back.

Michael: "Why don't you just go get them (referring to his 4-person list) yourself?"
Ms. Klugh: "We can't do that Michael".

Think about it. If the Others really needed a spinal surgeon, why didn't they take Jack when they had him surrounded in the middle of season two? Why wait until Michael brought them? Answer: Because they needed him to come willingly.

The only example I can think of where the Others took someone unwillingly was Walt. And look how that turned out for them. And yeah, they did take Michael... but only after he willingly came to them.

Look at what happened last week with Kate and her cage. She can escape from it whenever she wants, but now? She's a willing prisoner. Ben watched her stay in her cage on the video monitor rather than run. And Ben spent much time and effort convincing Sawyer not to run also. Willing prisoners?

THIS is why he needs to school Jack. When Ben tells Jack "I want you to want to save me" - it's the only time he's actually telling the truth. Everything else is crap. Ben knows he can probably force Jack to do the operation (probably through threatening Kate) but Ben doesn't even want Jack to know he has Kate (that's why they bagged his head and played the loud music when they walked him past her cage). Ben needs Jack to want to do the operation of his own free will. That's the only way it will work.

So... how does he accomplish this? By acting vulnerable and getting Juliet to act like they're going to overthrow him. By Juliet giving Jack a chance to kill Ben on the operating table she's giving him a choice. Will Jack allow Ben to die? Hell no. We all know that it's not in Jack's nature to do that. Moreover, Ben and Juliet know this. At that point, Jack will choose to save Ben's life and remove the tumor - this accomplishing exactly what he wants him to do while playing by the 'rules' if you will. Next week Jack's gonna play right into Ben's hands - yet again. SCHOOLED.


Or the manifestation theory (Ben wanting the spinal surgeon, Jack falling out of sky)

Guy with eye-patch is another desmond character? An Other? Dharma? Who knows....but it is NOT RADZINSKY.



Why did they have to kill a cool character this week and bring in two bad ones? I mean, those two new ones SUCK. Her lines state the obvious, and then the older characters say "I've never thought of that!" which is bull, since Locke and Sayid are a lot smarter than tank top chick with perfect eyebrows on deserted island...
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Yeah, the Locke/Sayid thing of them not figuring out the other monitors went to other places was reeeeeally dumb. Not even Locke's admission that "Boy do I suddenly feel stupid!" saved that one for me. The new female character was there just to deliver lines from a new perspective. And her bit with Paolo about, "You always complain that they never include you..." ... well, ummmm .... does this seem like the writers just being really obvious in their bad writing to introduce these new characters and yet explain why we haven't seen them for 70 days? Please.

As for what you posted, UsualSuspect -- good stuff! (From the Fuselage site or the Cubit site or elsewhere?) There is definitely a lot about free will going on here. This rings more "true" to me than the Hanso/numbers bit Yoda quoted, interesting though that is. The numbers might BE that sequence, but that doesn't mean they're not interpreting their own version of experiments here. Because frankly, for such high-falutin' philosophical ideas, their concept of mind games and experimenting is incredibly crude and, well, stupid. Withholding food, making people break rocks for no reason ... this is NOT advanced stuff. It's like they're amateurs. Too much other stuff isn't explained by that theory: Ben's living there all his life, the smoke monster, how they all got there in the first place (was the original plane crash random?), the electromagnetic weirdness, etc.

Sedai: As for Ana Lucia: She came to terms with her past more simply: She couldn't kill Benry. You could tell this confused her when she admitted it. Normally she could have killed someone like that without blinking. She now has a conscience. She's "human" again. Dies.

Libby: That one's harder, and since I don't necessarily subscribe to the purgatory theory, I won't defend it. I was just mentioning the theory at all because I'm surprised it's held up this well, and we're into the third season.

I do wonder where they were going to go with Libby being in the same hospital as Hugo. That was one of those interesting twists at the end of an episode. And now, what? They go nowhere with it? Just another one of those unexplained links between Losties? Will they ever explain all the coincidences of acquaintance on that plane?

I did so ADORE the end of this episode with Juliet's cue cards. I sat here on the couch talking out loud to the television: "Yeah! THIS is what I mean! I LOVE this show! OH MAN!"

This is just TOO much fun, this show. I try not to go in with preconceived ideas, despite exploring every theory under the sun. I try not to cling to any one theory and that way all the new pieces of evidence seem really exciting. I know some folks on one Lost site who got upset when things got revealed in ways they weren't predicting (such as the x-rays really being Ben's -- they were predicting Jack's or his dad's or Sarah's, etc., and were disappointed that the trailer for the episode was so blatant).

Love this show...