Female Commander in Chiefs

Two threads in one? It can be done.....

Chile just recently elected their first female president, Michelle Bachelet, and so did Liberia when they elected "The African Iron Lady", Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, as their president (the first female president ever on the entire African continent, as a matter of fact). In France more and more people talk about Ségolène Royal as the most likely centre-left candidate in the 2007 presidential elections (the polls pick her as clear favourite over more renowned possible candidates). There are more examples of women in the absolute political top: Finland is about to reelect their female president, Tarja Halonen, and even my own country would probably have had a female Prime Minister if popular Foreign Minister Anna Lindh had not been murdered in 2003.

There's obviously some kind of trend going on here. Whether it's a coincident or a sign of women taking up more space than before in the political chambers of the world is hard to say. Probably it's a little bit of both.

And now on to the next section of this thread: the political drama series, "Commander in Chief", with Geena Davis as American female President Mackenzie Allen. The TV series is said to be a warm up by the liberal Hollywood for the American people in time to the 2008 presidential election where Hillary Clinton is believed to be the candidate of the Democrats. After having seen a couple of the first episodes I can't do anything else but agree. The TV series is a relatively poor spin-off of excellent "The West Wing", a much more subtle depiction of the political World Series. Both series can be seen as propaganda but "The West Wing" is a much more well written and higher class entertainment.

So, back to reality(?).

I think the American election in 2008 has all the possibilities to be the most exciting and interesting one in a very long time. And this because there is a chance of having two really strong candidates on both sides. When I heard that Condoleezza Rice is rumoured to challenge Hillary Clinton I was thrilled. USA might have the opportunity to elect their first female President, their first African American President, and/or most importantly; a President with a sharp mind and balls bigger than most men.

The 2004 elections were really not that exciting. A tired horse vs. a dry spunge. Even if I obviously was very certain about where I had my sympathies, it still felt like "Are these the best they can fish out?". When the Vice President/Vice President candidate debate was more interesting almost than the ones between Bush and Kerry it did feel a bit discouraging. Debates with Clinton and Rice stand a good chance of being good stuff, me thinks.

Hmmmm.... Well.... I don't really know if there's some final point I'd like to make. I've just thought some about this with female Presidents and Prime Ministers popping up all over the world together with the "Commander in Chief" series.

What do you think of all this?

Btw, do you say "Commanders in Chief" or "Commander in Chiefs"?

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

I haven't seen Commander in Chief but I'm one of Thatcher's children. I was doing my A-levels when she resigned and still remember Miss Hodge, the lanky, spinsterish History teacher giving us the afternoon off when it was announced. Still, she was friends with Ronnie Ray-Gun.

Don't know a huge deal about Ms Rice (apart from that she gives Bush permission to go to the toilet) but Hilary Clinton always seemed to be the '(Wo)Man behind The Man'.....

Remember kids:

One is a clever magician who deceived the public for years.....



....the other is Uri Geller.

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"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan

Her background and academical merits are impressive to say the least: Biography of Dr. Condoleezza Rice

Hillary, although standing somewhat in the shadow of Bill, has a pretty decent CV as well: Biography of Mrs. Hillary Rodham Clinton

Mmm. Rice vs Clinton would be a very tasty clash indeed. They're definitely not 'dry spounges' (loved that ).

As far as Condi goes, i know she was considered a top-notch mediator between big guns like Powell, Cheney and Rumsfeld while National Security Advisor. That was also levelled as a criticism though, given that she could have inserted her own views more forcefully into the mix. However, i think the fact that she's spent her life immersed in complex national issues, and has decent mediating powers to boot, makes her look superior to Bush on two fronts already . (There has been some other criticism that she's still living in the 'Cold War' as far as her expertise and international politics goes - but we shall see how she strikes out on that front - as it were )

Hilary's definitely a sharp mind as well (although i don't think Bill was sitting on the throne without merit - the geezer had some enviable skills of his own). On the presentation front i can imagine her being pretty formidable - and winning supporters/votes from both sides of the political spectrum. (It's interesting to note that Bill is matey with Bush Snr these days too - i wonder if that'll help the Clinton estate garner some more disaffected Republican votes?)

It is such a shame that Anna Lindh was taken before her time, but like you say, there are plenty of other strong women starting to make their presence felt on the Euro political scene. (Not much movement in the UK i have to say tho - most of the promising female political voices have fallen by the wayside recently. There'll be more tho).

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

I think women should be ruling the world. It's good to see the fires been lit.


Rice is a great choice and I'd love to see Elizabeth Dole as her running mate.

And Hillary...ehhh...I'd like to see Senator Barbara Mikulski give her a run for the democratic nod.


Nice thread btw Pidz.

Well, since I see the Bush administration and the Republican congress as possibly the most corrupt, inept and incompetent in U.S. history, I won't be rooting for NeoCondi Rice.

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My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.

And there are Republications who think the same about the Clinton administration, which will over shadow Hillary. The challenge will be cutting through all the crap on both sides of the parties...and lets face it, there's plenty to go around on both sides.

What the hell is this....

Here's the correct link: Biography of Dr. Condoleezza Rice

To date, there have been 38 women who've been presidential candidates … the first being in the 1880's… almost 40 years before women were even given the right to vote... a right, that according to the US Constitution, women should have had from the very beginning… but one they had to fight tooth and nail to get... and if Rice or Clinton run, they'll have to do the same... regardless to whether they run against each other or not...

Either way, I doubt if it would ever be boring… and I'd love to see it...

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How do you figure?

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"Like all dreamers, Steven mistook disenchantment for truth."

I've never been the type to be too interested in politics myself. But a Barack Obama and Condi Rice ticket would get my vote. Obama seems to be the only person in the government that has any common sense at all.

As for Hillary, she wouldn't get my vote. I don't think being the former First Lady qualifies her to be the President, much less a Senator. She slipped in my view when she didn't divorce Bill after he had the worst affair in the history of mankind.

ANIKO! bwhaha, i was thinking exactly what you said and was about to post it when i scrolled down to see you wrote that. right on. in response to the thread ...

i'm a non-caucasion female democrat that went to stanford. i should, one could conjecture, be beholden to at least one of these women.

guess what? i'm not. i hate them both, for various reasons i won't get into. i'd rather have bill back, frankly. ok, i don't hate THEM but i don't like either of them as candidates for running my country.

one could argue two things here, re: a woman on the throne.

1) do we open-minded females and males rejoice we're getting a woman to run dis sheeyat finally? do we say, change won't happen unless we get a "uterus in high heels" up there? (desperate housewives joke, couldn't help it).

or

2) would you rather wait as long as you needed to and have a female worth her salt who knows how to play the game, play it smart, handle men, handle women, run the country, and keep her hands as untainted with the evils of the hill as possible? someone who, regardless of her party, will inspire respect from all teams?

cuz let's face it, if a woman gets up there and messes up, they won't let another one up there. ever.

i go for #2. der.

PS - i think women were bred to run countries anyway. "thriving in adversity" is what we do, n'est-ce pas? your general-issue housewife can cook for a party of 10, feed/clean/dress/discipline multiple children, clean the house, do the laundry, write her romance novel on the side and still have time to do her marital deeds when her hubby sends his party guests home. BAM!

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life without movies is like cereal without milk. possible, but disgusting. but not nearly as bad as cereal with water. don't lie. I know you've done it.

Only if they're hot though, right?





Seriously, no munters

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Well, if you follow the link to her biography which I posted a few inches up in this thread, I'm sure you'll find a thing or two, except for being First Lady, which might have qualified her for being Senator and possibly President.

And why she didn't divorce Bill is her personal business and should not even be an issue in the discussions about her political career.

Hmmm.... I really don't understand, when looking at the current President and his opponents in recent elections, why you don't think the two mentioned possible female candidates don't cut it. I think they're both very bright persons who seem to be capable of handling that kind of assignment. And you can't expect a president to please everyone - there will probably never be such a president, man nor woman. Yes, women often have to be better than men when doing the same job, but I don't buy that there will never ever be a woman president again if the first one turns out to be a bad one. That would mean that the entire emancipation of women depends one one single person: the first female president. And that can't really be the case now can it?

sorry for double posting

admittedly, i used some hyperbole. but

1) my hating bush does not mean i should automatically be grateful for either candidate next round. he's going anyway, so it doesn't matter. are you saying i should be happy i'm getting someone other than him? for me it's just taking the lesser of two evils, in choosing either of them over him. my point was, i don't like either of them as my prez. if either of them gets it, i am only marginally happy it's a female and wary of what either of them will do with the presidency. being first also means there's a lot of room for mucking it up (ie, you chicken out, you listen to the wrong people cuz you're so scared to muck it up, you overdo it because you're too thrilled to be a pioneer, etc).

if i have to choose, i'll choose democrat, but it's not like that means anything anymore or that the democrat up there is actually someone i condone.

2) i can't rightly claim there'll never ever ever be another woman president. i never said anything rested on anything. my point is - as others have made - we had to fight tooth and nail to get the right to vote. people didn't want to give it to us. who were those people? it wasn't just men. it was an entire society's mindset we had to morph. same thing for racism and discrimination. it wasn't that long ago that black folks had to sit at the back of the bus.

i'm simply mixing some realism with my idealism. if i were wholly idealistic, i'd be thrilled with either female and just be grateful. but i also know how fickle politics are, how fickle people are, how fickle the american public is, and how hard it will hold onto something that isn't good for it. i think it's very possible if we'd allowed women* voting sooner, and into the white house sooner, that we would never have had an idiot like bush up there in the first place.


*I'm sorry, let me modify that: anyone non-caucasian and male. cuz let's say you give me a black male candidate versus a white female candidate versus an asian female candidate (or, replace that with native american, latino, or asian male). any of those are minorities. i wouldn't give a flying banana who's a woman or not, or who's my ethnicity or not (being multiethnic and american). so, i could just as rightly love the black male candidate and say, ah well, no woman just yet, this other candidate is just what we need. or, ah well i pick the female caucasian cuz she has the best quals, and I can't just pick one of the others because of they're race.

you can't just hop up and down that ethnic/gender barriers are coming down in the whitehouse. you have to hop up and down that someone worthy of leading the country has been presented to you, and if they happen to be minority/gender friendly, hop up and down for that, too. that can't be a deciding factor, or it goes against the whole point of fighting discrimination/bias. then again, i know people and well, that's an instinct that's hard to squash.

How so?

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

i'm not going to claim i'm a political person, because i'm not. i actually prefer to stay away from it. i was just popping into this thread to say what i thought. so in return for the couple of questions i've gotten here, note that i'm not angry, not attacking anyone else, and actually not defending here, i'm only explaining what i think.

... that said, being aware of options, being inspired by options, and having a true variety of options allows diversity, growth in competition, and expansion. this is a very general statement that can be applied to a variety of things. supply and demand, etc.

If you think you can only buy a Ford Model T, you will only attempt to buy a Ford Model T, and if you don't like the Ford Model T, you won't buy a car at all. You will never buy a Lexus because no one told you you could have one, that they made one, that it was a possibility. Or, you know the Lexus exists, but not for you. So you make no effort to buy it, or to buy either car, because you're fed up at the whole d@mned thing.

i didn't say it is fact that bush wouldn't be up there, i am saying that you can now notice far more diversity in the work place and advanced education than you did fifty years ago. this is due to options being made available, fighting for diversity, making the same opportunities available to more, and more diverse, people.

apply that change to our political world. it is very possible that with more diversity in it, and by diversity i mean ANYthing other than a caucasian male, democrat or republican, we may very well have seen more varied types of presidents, and would be less likely to see the likes of bush up there. particularly if people had something other than the status quo to vote for.

apply the diversity in the workplace/economy/education idea to this, and what do you think our results would be? notice that we, such a young country, have yet to see a female president. and per the post that opened this thread, other countries are managing to do it. why can't we?

example: my mother has an eighth grade education and is from a third world country. she was not raised to perceive of education as a real goal, a desirable goal, or a practical goal. it's an impossible goal meant for a) rich people b) dreamers c) someone who's going to carry the family (ie, more likely a male). it is seen as a luxury, one that is likely to come of nothing, waste time, money, and in the meantime, burden the rest of your family. she never got her GED when she came to the US. money is seen as more important than an education because it seems to get results. education is a myth. not really an option.

my grandmother on my father's side raised 10+ kids and got no education beyond elementary school either. she and my grandfather instilled a desire to grow to be more than what you are - that the world is filled with options. her children grew up, literally, on the other side of the tracks in a southern town. my father left as soon as he could, joined the navy, got an education. and when i came along, he made sure i knew exactly what my options are. and now, every kid i ever meet or have of my own is going to know that an education is absolutely important, an option, and above all, priceless.

another example: there are many young people in america today who do not vote, and we wonder why they seem listless and uninterested. is it because they really don't care? what would make them care? what standard minority senior in high school is going to turn on the tv, see his presidential options, and feel his vote will even bring him a positive result? Why should he vote if he is pretty damn sure he isn't going to get any benefit from the result of the vote, because he believes none of the candidates, no matter what their speech writers convey, care about him or people like him, and will ever do a d@mn thing for him?

half the time i have the urge not to vote at all. then i remember i'm a minority female and i honestly have no choice. i know i have the option, and it's the better option, so i take it. but that doesn't mean i'm going to like what's on my ballot, every time i do.