Documentary HOF Part 2

So they adopted her in ‘77, split in ‘80, and she didn’t live with her? Also, when you mention the “compound”, I’m assuming the adopted kids were in and out?

I’m not tracking the Mia didn’t live with Soon Yi comment, especially when you say I missed it in the doc.

I don’t know what to make of the Dylan stuff, and probably never will. I can say it louder for the fourth time for the folks in the back if I need to?

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Letterboxd

“Except for markf, you’re all a disgrace to cinema.”

Soon Yi came to the US in 77, Mia left the Previn household in 79, Mia started her relationship with Woody in 1980. Woody was "the father" to three of Mia's kids (Moses, Dylan, and Ronen).



You see throughout the other documentary that Mia was raising those three kids in Connecticut. The Previn kids were in New York...did they visit obviously. But the idea that Mia/Soon Yi/Woody lived together wasn't true. I also don't think Mia was even raising Soon Yi...another aspect of the documentary was Mia had multiple people working for her.

It's also telling that Mia's white kids still seem to stick together with their mother but the minority children ended up impoverished, suicidal, and estranged from Mia.

I never said this and it wasn’t what you asserted. You said Mia never lived with Soon Yi. Now you are saying the three of them didn’t live together (goal post moved). You are now also speculating that “you don’t think” Mia even raised Soon Yi.

Maybe we can admit that this whole situation is rather complicated and dysfunctional?

You appear to be doing the same thing with Mia that you are accusing people of doing with Woody. Both can do immoral things at the same time. Doesn’t have to be one or the other.

Looks like it's called Denial and it came out in 2016. Spall plays David Irving and Mark Gatiss plays Van der Pelt, the Holocaust historian. Andrew Scott and Tom Wilkinson are in it, too? Heck of a cast!

Has anyone seen it?

Yeah, I've seen Denial. Hasn't really stuck in my memory that much, aside from Timothy Spall's performance, having the more interesting true-life character to play - and making him look like an arrogant simpleton.

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World of Darkness



It's cool to learn that stuff like this has so many followers and it was cool to see the history and.the progression of it all. As for the documentary itself, it's not bad but maybe it could have made the subject matter a bit more intriguing. Like Siddon said it did kind of seem to bounce around a bit. Just seems like a straightforward informative piece of information rather than an engaging one, but I don't necessarily always see that as a bad thing either.

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My experience with role playing games begins, and ends, many years ago. Watching World of Darkness brought the intrigue I had with Dungeons and Dragons back to me. I remember devouring the manuals and going over lists of creatures, weapons and potions. Different kinds of treasure, spells and character types. It sounded like a fun thing - and in primary school I had a friend who liked to play it, and tried getting anyone he came into contact with into it. I joined some adventures, and loved the way that you could explore places which would be gradually exposed on a grid map - throwing all kinds of different dice to decide what happened to your character. I eventually lost contact with this kid, and although I tried and tried, I could never get enough of my friends interested to really get into it. It wasn't popular - and eventually rumours started spreading about kids committing suicide and hurting people in real life - which gave Dungeons and Dragons a bad name. My ambitions to really get into it never amounted to anything, and the common ground I had with my friends at school revolved around console or arcade gaming.

In this documentary I got to discover how these role playing games evolved after I gave up on D&D, and how a magazine called White Wolf grew from a photocopied distribution base of around a hundred to hundreds of thousands expanding into a whole role playing conglomerate. White Wolf Publishing produced books and games, and became a success. This expansion centered around the introduction of a Vampire mythos that broke off into a whole subsection of role playing. A series of games under the umbrella title of "World of Darkness" drew a devoted following, and games such as Vampire: The Masquerade became an overnight sensation. Sometimes these games would involve people dressing up as their characters and the invention of a sort of live roleplaying scene developed. Being centered on something I knew virtually nothing about - I'm very vague on the details, and not even sure I have what I've written correct. This documentary moves at breakneck speed through nearly 40 years of role playing game history.

The narrative connects, and it was easy to follow what was going on 90% if the time - I can imagine that when you have hundreds of hours of interviews, editing a documentary out of it must be a challenge. The story is told by each interview subject - a common style which takes the narrator out of the equation. These people are so excited about what they were doing - whether it be the creator of a product or consumer, and their excitement gave me a feeling that I'd missed out on something by being completely ignorant of what went on - I'd never heard of World of Darkness or The Masquerade before. In Australian slang, that means I'm a "Dag" - I'm not informed about trends, and ignorant when it comes to what's cool or any counterculture forces ripping through the old establishment. I see roleplaying shops out there, but walk by them only briefly considering what's going on in there. I usually see kids painting little goblin statues, and think "What's with the painting of the little statues? How does that fit into roleplaying?" I still don't know.

Today, when I think of RPG I think of gaming, and there's a sad kind of coda to the World of Darkness documentary. The company that created the game "EVE" joined forces with White Wolf Publishing in the hopes that a massive World of Darkness online multiplayer game would be created on much the same level. After many years of development, all of the resources were diverted into keeping Eve running - and as such all of the work on the WoD game was flushed down the toilet. The documentary shows us a few demos, and I can state unequivocally that the World of Darkness game would have been a disappointment - I think Eve works because space is a frontier that suits roleplaying characters coming into contact with each other. When you set your game on Earth, in a city, it becomes really tough to build enough of a world to be inviting to millions of people playing at the same time. It becomes bound by it's limited topography. Your mind's imagination is a richer place to explore - and vampire role playing games suit that space more.

So, this was an okay documentary. I was interested in the topic - it's not plugged into what I'm most interested in at this stage of my life, but it was presented in a way that would allow people totally unfamiliar with the concepts to still understand it and follow it - that's always a good thing. Maybe to those that are really into it, the film didn't delve deeply enough into that world, but I have no idea if that's true. It showed us much inspired art, and the way some films have been influenced (if not outright plagiarized) by and from this World of Darkness series of games. I was definitely educated. I don't know much about role playing's origins - so perhaps there should have been a few moments spent on that at the beginning. Ancient strategy games - Chaturanga and Kriegsspiel, just to give us our bearings on a world some of us rarely interact with. If that was done and I missed it - apologies. But other than that - perfectly okay. People were very well interviewed, and the visual representation worked well. The amazing feeling people get, being included in such a tight-knit community - and one with such incredible creativity - is a really good thing, and I love to see people enjoying what they do like these people do.

The King of Kong: A Fistful of Quarters -

It's too bad DodgeBall already claimed the "A True Underdog Story" subtitle, isn't it? Anyways, I love this documentary's nostalgia about arcade culture and its reassurance that it's still alive. Also, while they mostly speak for themselves, I love how colorful the movie makes the characters who are keeping it alive. With that said, the documentary is just as fascinating when it's about arcade game enthusiasts as it is one about how even institutions as harmless as Twin Galaxies are not immune to corruption. On one end, we see how quick its operators are to abandon their standards while reviewing contributions from someone with a stake in them and/or who they fear. It's amusing how much Robert Mruczek's segment about how conscientious he is or the ones revealing how serious Walter Day takes his job contrast with the pivotal Funspot scene, whether it's Billy Mitchell's obviously fraudulent video, Walter Day submissively kneeling on a skee-ball table during their phone call or that oh-so thorough 10-minute review period. On the other end, we see how suspicious and unwelcoming tainted organizations can be to outsiders, i.e., Steve Wiebe. While Twin Galaxies had reasons to question his association with Mr. Awesome, they obviously do not apply the same scrutiny to longtime members, and has there ever been a more obvious toadie in a documentary than Brian Kuh? As for the villain, it's hard to think of a more "love to hate" one in a movie - fictional or otherwise - than Billy Mitchell. As good as the Funspot scene is at presenting contrasts, it gets no better than when the movie weighs Billy's insistence that record seekers play in person against Wiebe's willingness to do just that and Billy's predilection for VHS tapes, not to mention the not-so-climactic moment when they're finally in the same room.

Whether you find the race to achieve the highest score in Donkey Kong or the drama within Twin Galaxies more interesting, you can't deny how entertaining the documentary is on the whole. If it's not the thrilling and funny ways it plays up its "underdog challenging the system" dynamic, it's how it uses classic motivational songs like "Eye of the Tiger," which rivals how Cobra Kai does this. I also like how it rides a fine line at poking fun at these enthusiasts while honoring them at the same time, such as how it reveals how their passion improved their professional lives. In sum, I doubt there will ever be a better documentary about competitive video gaming. Oh, and of all the gaming advice and inspiration Mitchell and Wiebe provide, I'm glad the movie provides what may be the best advice of all: make sure your child or pet goes to the bathroom before you start playing.

@Torgo if you're interested, there've been many developments (lawsuits, countersuits, etc) in the years since that came out. You'll find many (incendiary, it must be said, even though it seems to be justified) videos on Karl Jobst's channel, just a quick search for "Billy" will yield a bunch of updates on all this stuff. It's gotten considerably more dramatic since the film.

Thanks, I did see that name come up while looking at the movie's IMDB trivia and Wiki page. I do know Mitchell has been banned from Twin Galaxies for using MAME. A quick glance at that channel looks like that's only the half of it.

Has anyone met him or seen him speak at a gaming expo? A good friend of ours is a filmmaker and arcade YouTuber who has met him and says he's a nicer guy and less of a jerk than you'd think. It's hard to weigh that against how the movie presents him and how litigious he is.

I just assume all this stuff is slanted. Though I also assume that it's pretty easy for someone to be fundamentally unreasonable but still personable. I know a handful of people who, when you talk to them, are unbelievably friendly, in ways that are impossible to square with their reputations. Just how it goes, I guess. If anything there might be an inverse correlation there, where anyone who acts like this can only continue to exist in the community at large if they come across as candid or charming or friendly in person. Who knows.

I got a bit of feedback when posting my review elsewhere - someone who lived in Hollywood, Florida, spent a lot of time at the Grand Prix Arcade and frequented "Rickey's Restaurant" - the place Billy Mitchell's family owned. He was an acquaintance of his, and shared this anecdote :

"A story to shed some light on Billy's gaming nature and attitude in the 1990's. In the back of his restaurant was a Galaga video game. Of course, Billy's initials were always at least holding the top five spots. On a few occasions somebody did manage to post a higher score and their initials stood above Billy's. But coincidentally this was always short lived and within 24 hours he would have all the top positions again. A waitress from the restaurant revealed that whenever someone had a higher score, Billy would open the machine and reset it, wiping all the initials clear and then he would play it for hours to have his initials fill the screen once again. So I guess this would serve to show his competitive, and a bit sneaky, nature concerning gaming. I would tend to believe more that he did cheat the system in order to maintain this elite Donkey Kong position he had accomplished at such a young age."

Wow. It's not that surprising, but wow.
He's essentially a real-life Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Just replace football with classic arcade games.

Minding the Gap -

As hard as this documentary is to watch at times, the experience is enjoyable overall, especially for how honest and genuine it is. I say this even though there are times when it seems made up for how extraordinary it is that these three pals found each other. Granted, their stories are likely similar to several others given the rough state of their hometown, but it's still miraculous given their shared passion for skateboarding and reasons for looking backward that make it difficult to look forward. As for the reason in Zack's opening line, which details the consequences of having the classic masculine ideal foist upon you, it's no mistake that it kicks off the movie, and his home life is as good a demonstration as any as to why such teachings are hard to shake off. It's painful to listen to the recording of his argument with ex-girlfriend Nina in particular, especially since he may not know another way to handle such a situation as a result of these teachings. The friends' accounts of being abused are no less easy to take, especially since they are convincing that they have coped with it at one moment but indicate that they'll struggle with it for the rest of their lives the next.

There are also the ways the documentary conveys the difficulty of having to grow up in a city with few opportunities and that is riddled with crime like Rockford, whether it's the repeated footage of decaying buildings, the empty streets or that being swindled such as in the case of the skate park fiasco is the norm rather than the exception. I also found Bing and Keire's accounts of treating their minority status as a badge of honor fascinating, especially for how Keire explains that being black lets him continuously prove everyone wrong. The documentary ends up being less about skateboarding than its thrilling opening scene implies, but it succeeds at stressing the importance of finding something that provides release and makes you feel free in such dire situations, and it thus made me think about how I do the same whenever I struggle. It ends up being a complete portrait of a generation who have learned the hard way that what paid off for preceding ones won't necessarily pay off for them. Thankfully, as evidenced by the epilogue that shows that things are getting better for all of them, it's a situation that can be survived.

This is something of a remarkable feature debut by filmmaker Bing Liu, who appears to have been recording the lives of two friends, Keire Johnson and Zack Mulligan, along with himself, for quite a number of years. What he captured seems to distill the essence of 21st Century life in the United States for kids, especially guys, who are coming of age. Domestic violence, poverty, parenthood, parental expectations, marriage break-ups, alcoholism, responsibility, racism, friendship, loss, urban decay and education all feature prominently, with all of these issues explored in an intelligent and thought provoking way. Everything has a basis in what these three young people really love : skateboarding. It's while skating that these bonds were forged, and as kids they let out their frustrations, got away from the encroaching demands of their parents, and started to develop a sense of self esteem as they improved their skills while Bing recorded everywhere they went.

As the three advanced into adulthood, even as they took their first steps into independence and separate lives, Liu kept on coming back to interview his two friends, and their parents along with his mother. Edited together, the result speaks volumes and is revelatory - the film's nomination for a Best Documentary Feature Academy Award was warranted, but still must have come as a surprise to the down to earth Liu. Much of what's in the film is very candid. When he interviews his own mother, he's moved to tears when she tries to explain to him that she'd make different choices in her life, knowing what she does now. Liu's stepfather would beat him when she wasn't around, and would also choke and abuse his mother - the scars from these events are all too obviously written on the faces of both parent and child, and it makes you wonder how men can let themselves do the atrocious things they end up doing. Liu wants to know why his mother didn't protect him, and his mother is pained by this and blames herself - but it was up to his step-father and his mother's partner not to torture the two people he supposedly loved.

All of this takes on an even greater import when we manage to peer deeply into Zack Mulligan's story. He's the first one of the three to have fathered a child, and at first he appears set to do his duty, make the sacrifices he must to look after the young boy, and provide for his new family. When his partner, Nina Bowgren, is at work, he looks after the baby and vice versa - but he often finds himself at odds with her when she gets home and demands some time to herself. The fights they both have are recorded by Liu, and the one time Nina really loses her mind during a confrontation Zack has the audio recording to reveal and paint a particular picture. It's only when Nina is alone with Liu and his camera do we hear that Zack is being violent towards her - and all of the sudden we begin to notice moments between them that read completely differently now we have that information. The two are enacting moments we've heard their parents had, and so on seemingly through generations. Domestic violence, and dysfunctional families, seem par for the course - and it's eye-opening to see just how common the problem is.

Keire Johnson at first seems dislocated from the race issues we assume most African American people have to live with - he has been told that despite having white friends, he should never forget that he's black, by his father - and the tragic passing of this figure in his life, one that he never really made peace with, is hard for him to process. Keire's father was particularly hard on him, and it was during a split between father and son that he passed away. Those are the rare fights that are never resolved, due to our mortality. The last thing Keire ever said to his Dad was "I hate you." Still, compared to Zack, Keire he seems the more happy one - with a great sense of humour. At first there are some doubts as to whether he'll adapt to the hard work it takes to enter the workforce - especially the way some African Americans are looked upon by employers. To our considerable relief, Keire ends up thriving - dependable, and very personable, he seems set to earn some security for himself.

The fortunes of the boys wax and wane. Zack drinks and parties too much. They all seem to have been disciplined harshly as kids. They all exist at a challenging time to get by - everything in life seems to have a high price, and the pitfalls are treacherous and many. Everyone's family is touched by divorce and domestic drama, along with health problems and even death. Through Liu's excellent editing (with the help of documentary whizz Joshua Altman) we flow with ease through these people's lives. Nathan Halper adds a reverent feel to the journey of these souls through his piano and keyboard melodies - a spiritual accompaniment through pain, which is uplifting. It really blends in. Liu allows his subjects to share their lives on camera in their own way - and as such it never feels like he's forcing the information out of them, instead letting if flow freely.

A slogan on one of the boy's skateboards is "This Device Cures Heartbreak" - just seeing that sent a pang through my heart, and I'd say one other device is sharing the pain and fear with others. This was a really great film about domestic violence and family trouble - one that speaks to a 21st Century audience. The cure for that isn't as simple, as it has an iceberg-like nature - so much hidden beneath the surface, reacted to with shame, lied about, and accepted. It's made that much worse when people turn to alcohol to try and ease the pain. The generational problems are the hardest to eradicate, and you can see how deeply woven they are into the fabric of the families we see. I can see exactly how skateboarding could be used as an escape - a pastime which requires kids to be on the move, always outdoors and away from home. There, Liu found two friends who accepted and encouraged him, with skateboarding and filmmaking - and he turned their lives into windows through which you can see America's soul.

It's been years since I've seen this film, but a scene that lingers in my mind is when Liu confronts Zack about hitting Nina, and Zack admits it and says something to the effect of having to "put her in her place" or "teach her a lesson" or something like that, and there's just this moment of silence between them. And for me, that silence is Liu processing the fact that his good friend is a domestic abuser. I think part of him was probably hoping that Zack would defend himself, or say that Nina is also violent.

For me that moment was interesting because I personally don't think I could remain friends with someone who was intentionally harming their partner or child in that way. It makes you wonder where that line is for these three young men.

I've been thinking about that. First off, there's nothing worse than when one of our best friends disappoints us - and yeah, the specter of "this person can no longer be my friend" is such a keenly-felt, devastating blow. To lose a great friend hurts enormously. Liu must have felt incredibly sad about where things stood - especially after being abused in the past by his step-father, and knowing what it felt like. Not all of us have the strength needed to go through with severing ties though.

Personally - I had an older brother. 14 years older than me, but he was the sibling I loved the most, because of his infectious and charismatic personality. He died in 1995, at the age of 35, and he had a different, darker side to that personality that he never showed me - but nevertheless I knew enough for us to be completely estranged from each other in the years leading up to his accidental death. Squaring all of the love, hate and loss is all a part of life I guess - it can be paralyzing, confusing and so difficult though. Those of us that find it so natural being decent people are all the more disturbed by it all, and to be robbed of our best friends and siblings because they decide to act that way rubs salt into the wounds. Minding the Gap really does well in bringing the subject into a space where we can confront it.

First, I'm sorry about your brother. Reconciling the different sides--good and bad--of people we love is so incredibly complex.

With Minding the Gap, that complexity comes in the form that this friend--who he now knows is an abuser--was probably one of the things that got him through his rougher years. I think it's also an interesting moment because Liu was probably getting his friend's version of all of those interactions/confrontations, and most likely had created a narrative in his head where Nina was the bad guy. To have that totally spun around must be very disorienting.

World of Darkness -

This is a pretty good documentary about the Vampire: The Masquerade story. I had the privilege of playing the game once, and I would have played it again, but life changes both fortunate and unfortunate put that on hold. I've also played various other tabletop RPGs and used to be a regular convention attendee, so I'm very much this movie's intended audience. I think it mostly succeeds at capturing the appeals of all of the above. I also find it fascinating as a documentary about the challenges of starting and running a tabletop RPG and a gaming business.

The appeals of playing RPGs like Vampire: The Masquerade and attending conventions, the ones that have cosplayers in particular, include getting to connect with like-minded people, the opportunity to visit other worlds and that “letting your freak flag fly” is encouraged rather than condemned. The documentary does a good job at making this evident, especially in the segments where longtime players talk about what the game means to them. I especially like the accounts of the players who said the game helped them cope with life's difficulties such being raised under oppressive conditions or having an ailing parent. The way the movie tells the story of White Wolf and their prized franchise's formation is no less interesting, especially the part about how the trips through the worst parts of Gary, Indiana influenced it. Speaking of influences, it was enlightening how it reveals that the game played a part in the boom in vampire and werewolf stories in the late '90s and early '00s (even though there is a bit more hubris than truth in some of the accounts). I also never got tired of seeing how creative the most devoted players are when it comes to costumes and makeup, and again, this should be required viewing for anyone who has ambitions of following in White Wolf's footsteps.

Even though this is a complete account of the Vampire: The Masquerade phenomenon, as a movie, it's just decent on the whole. It relies too much on a safe, templated and standard issue documentary format for me to consider it a great piece of filmmaking. Plus, it repeats and/or rewords commentary here and there and in ways that do not add much. Since I felt like more of a fly on the wall than a participant when I played the game, I do appreciate how it fills in the blanks, and it's always nice to stroll down the memory lane of my convention-going days (which I hope are just on hiatus and not over). Oh, and I wish I knew when all of those late-night Goth parties were happening in Atlanta! What a blast they would have been.

Place de La Republique won't have a replacement and also it will not be an official part of this Hall of Fame. But like I said before I would check it out if you had the chance.