The Veg*nism Thread

Yes I do!

Well there we go then, a strange sense of superiority. The illusion that our species is special and above others. We all live, we all die. We should aim to improve all the lives animals have whilst they are on earth. You could just have easily have been born been a fish, or a cow, or whatever.

And there we go, another deliberate attempt to avoid a serious discussion and provide me with any logical reason by not only making a joke like comment, but making a completely false and disgusting accusation.

You have shown you have no willingness to have a serious debate, what is the point?

Anyway, imo vegans are winning this debate.

It's not strange in any way. I don't want a debate, you are right there.

Yeah, but I am still eating lamb.

Yeah, I have no problem with stopping eating meat and I think there are constructive conversations to be had concerning the way we process it. I do have a problem with us going after people as if eating meat is not a natural part of the species. I also don't know where it ends. Most of us will probably snicker when we start talking about people who believe that vegetation emits sounds of pain. Those people are out there though, and is probably the next step in what you are referring to as evolution.

As a Christian I obviously have a different view on the spiritual aspect of all this. I don't expect non-believers to be on board with those thoughts, and that's fine. I just don't think we should be pointing moral fingers at people on this subject. Vegetarians don't bother me one bit and it makes me cringe that there are people who would genuinely have a problem with people adopting this lifestyle. I think the opposite is true too though. Meat eating is as old as mankind, whenever you believe that beginning is, so to begin to think meat eaters are morally reprehensible is going against the natural progression you claim to be purporting.

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Letterboxd

Bye, meat.

Well, I think it is. It's by luck that you were born a human, there was more chance of you not being. All animals live, feel, die, then that is it. I'd rather spend my time here trying to help others live better lives realising this.

About to go to grocery store to buy a bunch of vegetarian foods to start my new lifestyle, hope you vegetarian vegans are happy.

That is never going to hurt anyone and I have absolutely no problem with it. I just find it pretty hard for people who are all about believing only what we can observe to then turn around and say eating meat is not natural.

There's humility in accepting facts such as the fact that humans are easily crippled by microscopic organisms, we're not as physical strong or fast as other animals, and we're consistently outbred by mosquitoes.

It depends on what you mean by "superior". If you mean intellectually, as I've conceded, there are animals that are better at specific mental tasks than us, but in regards to our ability to conceive of complex interconnected abstract working systems of idea management, we are far advanced to anything else we've observed.

I suggest we use it, not abuse it.

You would have to understand that evolution is not literally random and that the scientific method that informs us of it is an endless process of belief revision. All claims are falsifiable.

For example, evolution could be proved wrong if we could reproducibly unearth modern house cats in pre-cambrian rock layers.

If that could be verified and then the entire fossil record that we take for approximate fact would be completely blown open.

Conversely, the claim that we were made by God is entirely unfalsifiable. It cannot be tested or proven untrue.

You're making an assertion without any justification.

At which point I say you're a bloody hypocrite to accuse me of twisting words.

I was comparing the argument for eating fish to the argument for kicking babies.

Get it straight. If you can say eating fish is ethical based on a definition that implies nothing about eating fish then I can kick babies based on a definition that implies nothing about kicking babies.

It IS a strawman as I've just demonstrated.

You began this with the positive claim, the burden of proof is on you.

No, it's performing or enabling the practice of killing an animal. As a general rule of thumb: eating animals incentivizes killing animals.

DUH, YOU COULDA GOOGLED IT.

eth·i·cal
ˈeTHək(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: ethical
1.
of or relating to moral principles or the branch of knowledge dealing with these.

WHY.

It is to my essential benefit to rob my next door neighbor, that doesn't make it right, which is what Daniel pinned you on.

Why is your essential benefit more valuable than their lives?

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"Well, at least your intentions behind the UTTERLY DEVASTATING FAULTS IN YOUR LOGIC are good." - Captain Steel

Hm! Well its not out of a cosmic unfairness to other life forms that you exist Dan. Please embelish because your mom when in the delivery room knew she wasnt giving birth to a trout. Do you mean you believe in reinacarnation?

To me, there is very little difference from a fish and a vegetable, they are food......until they arent. That day wont come because there is no evolution from what they are now. Not to a human level.

Do we need to eat fish? No. There is nothing wrong in doing it though.

I do think that in part it is natural. But the over consumption and supply and demand, economic creation of meat products that we see today has come about more as a result of human profit rather than fulfilling our needs. But just because something is, or has been natural, I don't think it should just continue without question. A lot of actions are determined by needs, but needs change over time, and we discover new things that alter our decision making process.

I think there's a difference between believing eat meat is morally wrong, and believing a person that would do so is a morally reprehensible person.

I think Omni just became my hero.

I avoided this thread because I knew it would get dicey.

I think it's wrong to kill apex predators and animals at the top of the food chain, (bears, mountain lions, wolves, elephants, whales, etc) because these animals have evolved to be predators not prey food. Likewise I feel it's OK to kill and eat prey animals, (ducks, game birds, deer, cows, chickens, fish) because they have evolved as prey animals.

That's my own personal view. Please note: I say it's my view and I don't expect or demand other people to think like I do, in fact I prefer if you don't think like I do, as it makes me all that more unique.

That's a weird view point.

Let's kill the weak. Africa is probably evolving with weaknesses, like being born with diseases and such... so, let's just let them starve cause their people and their culture "evovled that way".

Before this, you didnt know I was making a rhetorical exchange and responded sentence per sentence?!

I havent been pinned on anything. I dont think theres anything wrong in eating fish, and nothing has been brought forth as proof that they arent food, other than philosophy.

Do you think food should just be vegetables, ok. There isnt any substantial reason for you to do this other than Health, and appreciation for life itself. Dont go judging a vegetarian fish eater though, because you have no case or cause to judge them.

It is always nice to hear evolutionists say these things, too bad they don't argue like they believe them.

I digress though, because creationists often argue as though the existence of God can be proven as well, even though it can not.

I've pretty much said what I'm going to say about the larger topic as a whole, but I was reading through this thread and came across something that confused me.

Are you saying that whales and porpoises are fish? Because they're not. They're mammals.

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It's because we're secretly God-fearing creationists. Right?