Mad Max: Fury Road

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Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
I'm sorry if I'm missing anything, but I couldn't stomach reading through every post you ranted on. Please, without diving into your rant about Furiosa being too big a character, tell me what's wrong with the film.
I've already talked about it. If you can't stomach to read it, that's not my problem.



See Mad Max: Fury Road. It is Gunslinger approved, and currently my favorite film of the year.
I thought about you as I watched it. I can't believe you love it so much.



See Mad Max: Fury Road. It is Gunslinger approved, and currently my favorite film of the year. Or read and rep my review and see if you want to see it.



I feel like JayDee now asking for rep...
I usually feel like Gatsby when I ask for rep.



I've already talked about it. If you can't stomach to read it, that's not my problem.
Do you have a legit criticism? That's a serious question.
__________________



Do you have a legit criticism? That's a serious question.
What did I say that you think isn't a legitimate criticism?



Let me start with the good..... The atmosphere. The visuals. The feeling that it was indeed a Mad Max movie. The freakish characters. Loved most of this. It's very impressive how much it felt like a sequel to Beyond Thunderdome. This wasn't some shoddy job at trying to reboot the Mad Max franchise -- VISUALLY, at least. This was like a time machine to the 1980's.

Unfortunately... the WRONG passengers went in the time machine.

All except for the guy who played Immortan Joe. I liked Immortan Joe. He was played by the guy (don't know his name) who played the villain in the original Mad Max movie. LOVED him. My favorite scenes were those that involved him.
So you should have loved the film, right?

My biggest complaint: Yes. This was a woman's movie. I totally see what people are saying about this film having a feminist agenda. The woman who created The Vagina Monologues worked on this movie -- and it shows. I felt that the male characters were largely treated like second class pigs and that all these ridiculous women characters were the stars -- much more than Tom Hardy's Mad Max. It wasn't just Furiosa who was the problem -- it was also her female backseat drivers and especially those old motorcycle lesbians who showed up near the end. But mainly... Max just didn't seem like much of a star. They could easily forget about his character if they make another one of these movies. It was Furiosa who absolutely felt like the Mad Max character of this film. Max felt more like a distant, observing trainer to her.
Except for when he was kicking her ass.

Oh, and saving her life. A few times.

Oh, and killing the crap out of the bad guys, including both the Bullet Farmer and the freaky gas guy with the gross feet.

Oh, and except for that part where he's the one who formulates the plan that wins the day.

But, yeah, it's totally not his movie.

And every time you turned around, they shoved a woman's pregnant belly in your face!
Until they kill her...

But you know what I hated even more than all of that stuff, though?

Max's hallucinations. Especially that obnoxious, curly haired girl who kept appearing. Max's hallucinations were the worst thing to suffer through. I could handle the women to an extent -- but every time Max appeared, he suffered another hallucination! There was hardly anything to him -- even during his own moments, a little obnoxious girl appeared and stole his scenes.
They had to have this because it's crucial to the Max character and there's going to be tons of people who watch this that don't know Max's story. Also, they happen about five times and they're about 1-3 seconds per shot. Do you often hate a film because of something that is less than one minute of its total run time?

But I knew early on that this movie was going to suck, even before we really got into the meat of the whole thing, with Max joining Furiosa and her gal pals on the road. I really hated that first big scene where they're driving through the desert and Max was strapped to a vehicle, as prisoner. As they went through storm clouds and all that and the guy says, "OH, WHAT A LOVELY DAY!!!!"

I sat through this movie bored out of my skull, dying for it to be over. I wanted to walk out. This could have been a movie I actually walked out on, but I didn't want people here telling me, "You didn't even watch the whole thing!!!" So I stayed. But I thought this was a two hour, ear pounding headache. I thought it was one of the worst movies I had ever seen. Definitely the worst Mad Max movie by far.

It's possible it could have been better with Mel Gibson. I think Mel Gibson MADE those movies. I could see myself tolerating it a lot more if only Mel Gibson was playing Max. Tom Hardy... just seems like Tom Hardy. It's a decent Mad Max impression, but it didn't drive everything home. I kinda wonder if Charlize Theron's Furiosa character was pushed more forwards just in case nobody liked Tom Hardy's Mad Max. Like, I think she might have been a backup, just-in-case, safety kind of thing. That's what went through my mind as I was watching the film.

Anyway, I was hoping to like it, but I just didn't. I'm really kinda utterly shocked at the positive reception it's getting.
The rest of this isn't a why you dislike the film. You're just stating over and over that you didn't like it but the only why you come up with is Mel Gibson isn't in it and too many girls are. That's why I think your criticism is ridiculous. If I said 300 is a stupid movie because it has too many guys in it that would just sound shallow and silly. If I said Steel Magnolias is a bad movie because it has too many women in it I'd be told that's the point of the film. Yet you get to use it as a "legitimate" criticism of this film? I don't get it.



Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
They had to have this because it's crucial to the Max character and there's going to be tons of people who watch this that don't know Max's story. Also, they happen about five times and they're about 1-3 seconds per shot. Do you often hate a film because of something that is less than one minute of its total run time?
I'm not gonna excuse it. I hated Max's hallucinations. They sucked. They weren't necessary. They were junk. They made him weak and the hallucinations themselves sucked.

Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
The rest of this isn't a why you dislike the film.
Yes, it is.

Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
You're just stating over and over that you didn't like it but the only why you come up with is Mel Gibson isn't in it and too many girls are. That's why I think your criticism is ridiculous.
I don't care what you think. You don't own the damn world. If you don't like what I say -- tough.

Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
If I said 300 is a stupid movie because it has too many guys in it that would just sound shallow and silly.
Maybe to you, but maybe not to everybody.

Originally Posted by bouncingbrick
Yet you get to use it as a "legitimate" criticism of this film? I don't get it.
Well, it's there. And I pretty much expected hardly anyone to get it. But that's how I feel. That's my criticism.



If you can't even hash out a reason why you dislike the film, then I think it's fair that I call your criticism ridiculous.

I'd get it if you said something like "the emphasis on action over story makes the film emotionally tiring" or something like that. Instead I get this:

"I sat through this movie bored out of my skull, dying for it to be over. I wanted to walk out. This could have been a movie I actually walked out on, but I didn't want people here telling me, "You didn't even watch the whole thing!!!" So I stayed. But I thought this was a two hour, ear pounding headache. I thought it was one of the worst movies I had ever seen. Definitely the worst Mad Max movie by far. "

Why is it the worst Mad Max so far? If you enjoyed the others, why don't you enjoy this one?

I don't get it...



If you can't even hash out a reason why you dislike the film, then I think it's fair that I call your criticism ridiculous.
Do as you please. I've already talked about why I don't like it. You just don't want to accept my reasons.

I'd get it if you said something like "the emphasis on action over story makes the film emotionally tiring" or something like that. Instead I get this:

"I sat through this movie bored out of my skull, dying for it to be over. I wanted to walk out. This could have been a movie I actually walked out on, but I didn't want people here telling me, "You didn't even watch the whole thing!!!" So I stayed. But I thought this was a two hour, ear pounding headache. I thought it was one of the worst movies I had ever seen. Definitely the worst Mad Max movie by far. "
That's not all I said.

Why is it the worst Mad Max so far? If you enjoyed the others, why don't you enjoy this one?
Because it wasn't much of a Mad Max movie. It was a vehicle to introduce the Furiosa woman and her female posse. And Tom Hardy didn't have the same kind of spunk as Mel Gibson had. As I said -- the movie felt very much like the old Mad Max movies, as if they had stepped into a time machine and went back to the 1980's -- but the WRONG people went into that time machine. It was distressing to see something that resembled so much like a Mad Max movie, yet very crucial elements were f**ked up. So I'm not fooled by its disguises. They should have emphasized Max's character more -- they didn't. The fact that he beat up a bunch of guys didn't matter. It didn't play right to me.



Your life sounds terrible. I'm just sad for you now.

You will never enjoy the pure fun of things like House (both 1977 and the 80's US horror films), Hell Comes to Frogtown, They Live, The Evil Dead (originals), Heavy Metal, Bad Taste, Dead Alive, Death Race 2000, and countless other cult and b-movies that this type of film making is invoking.

However, even when a film is telling a story in a campy or over-the-top nature it can still tell a serious story. Mad Max can still be a story about hope in a seemingly hopeless place. It can be a strong feminist tale, despite what Sexy Celebrity wants (I find his criticisms beyond ridiculous). It can still have serious themes running under the surface of visceral bombast.
Some of those movies I actually do like. I did say that the lack of realism was only one of many drawbacks, and that in and of itself it didn't completely ruin the movie.

Don't feel sorry for me. It's not as though I limit myself so much that I have a hard time finding movies I can enjoy. I am always very excited and passionate about film because there are so many great movies that I will love that I don't even have enough time in my life to watch them all.

I was trying to be more cheeky than condescending, but the latter is more in my nature.

That said, Zotis' major concern is that he looks for realism in a film. To me, this is the absolute worst way to watch movies because, no matter what film you watch, it's going to take great liberties with the concept of reality. Even the most realistic film is going to be nothing like real life. Real life doesn't follow narrative arcs. Real life people don't change the way film characters do. Real life doesn't follow act structure. Films have to take story telling short cuts like relying on stereotypes to convey a character or short cut things like travel or time passing to convey their point. "Realism" is circumvented in literally every film. It's a requirement to tell a story in a couple of hours. I don't just dislike Zotis' criticism of Max for this, I think it's a foolish way to watch films. Again, every film has to take a certain amount of liberty with realism to get the job done.

My point of view is, does the film obey its own rules? If the film makes sense within its own internal logic then it works.
Every movie is realistic to a degree, and every movie is unrealistic to a degree. The issue is not whether a movie is realistic or unrealistic. The issue is how realistic it is. It can be very realistic, somewhat realistic, or very unrealistic. I don't like it when movies are very over-the-top, like 300. But I do like movies that are somewhat over-the-top in an artsy way, like Kill Bill.

There are some movies that are extremely realistic, like Foxcatcher, A Most Wanted Man, and A Woman Under the Influence. The extent that they pursue realism excites me. I find all of the little details that they pay attention to fascinating, like how long to pause on the phone while it's implied that the person on the other end is talking. There are other things about film that excite me too. It isn't as if realism is the only thing that matters to me, or the thing that matters most. But it's something I look for in most films, because to me it means the director is taking the time to think about how things should actually work. And a lack of realism to me feels like the director just doesn't care. That he just wants to do whatever crazy stunt and doesn't care if it even makes any sense. To me that's childish and silly.

But when you talk about even the most realistic film still not being able to portray reality exactly, and how ridiculous it is to expect something like that... I just don't understand why you think that's even relevant. Do you really think that's what I'm advocating?

Realism is circumvented in every movie, but realism is also applied in every movie, because the word realism implies a degree, not an exact amount. If anything in a movie resembles reality in any way shape or form then it is at least a tiny bit realistic. And if a movie is as close to reality as humanly possible it still can't be completely realistic.

It really boggles my mind that you would talk about realism that way, and then say that it's absurd. Realism to that extent is absurd, but that's not what I'm talking about. The more realistic a movie is, the more I like it. The less realistic a movie is, the less I like it. But there is so much more to what I like and dislike about movies than just that.



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
I don't think Cassavetes movies are realistic in the slightest. You may feel some of them seem realistic compared to most of what you watch, but in truth, their real-time and often-borderline-home-movie-like depiction of troubled, spontaneous characters carries artificiality to a different extreme, but it's a style that some people admire as an alternative to "Hollywood by-the-numbers".



Master of My Domain
I usually feel like Gatsby when I ask for rep.
So this means you're really proud and happy all the time?

I sort of quit my rep whore status, you might be a good successor. I wanted to rant about my brilliant Aguirre review only getting 9 rep but I restrained myself for the rehab process.




Every movie is realistic to a degree, and every movie is unrealistic to a degree. The issue is not whether a movie is realistic or unrealistic. The issue is how realistic it is. It can be very realistic, somewhat realistic, or very unrealistic. I don't like it when movies are very over-the-top, like 300. But I do like movies that are somewhat over-the-top in an artsy way, like Kill Bill.

There are some movies that are extremely realistic, like Foxcatcher, A Most Wanted Man, and A Woman Under the Influence. The extent that they pursue realism excites me. I find all of the little details that they pay attention to fascinating, like how long to pause on the phone while it's implied that the person on the other end is talking. There are other things about film that excite me too. It isn't as if realism is the only thing that matters to me, or the thing that matters most. But it's something I look for in most films, because to me it means the director is taking the time to think about how things should actually work. And a lack of realism to me feels like the director just doesn't care. That he just wants to do whatever crazy stunt and doesn't care if it even makes any sense. To me that's childish and silly.

But when you talk about even the most realistic film still not being able to portray reality exactly, and how ridiculous it is to expect something like that... I just don't understand why you think that's even relevant. Do you really think that's what I'm advocating?

Realism is circumvented in every movie, but realism is also applied in every movie, because the word realism implies a degree, not an exact amount. If anything in a movie resembles reality in any way shape or form then it is at least a tiny bit realistic. And if a movie is as close to reality as humanly possible it still can't be completely realistic.

It really boggles my mind that you would talk about realism that way, and then say that it's absurd. Realism to that extent is absurd, but that's not what I'm talking about. The more realistic a movie is, the more I like it. The less realistic a movie is, the less I like it. But there is so much more to what I like and dislike about movies than just that.
Did Mad Max make sense in the context of the story it was trying to tell? I think it did, therefore "realism", even in the context of that film, was applied. Furiosa's usage of her arm is no less in context with the other insane things that happen in the film. The film makes internal sense within the boundaries of the realism it sets up.



Did Mad Max make sense in the context of the story it was trying to tell? I think it did, therefore "realism", even in the context of that film, was applied. Furiosa's usage of her arm is no less in context with the other insane things that happen in the film. The film makes internal sense within the boundaries of the realism it sets up.
Which isn't much of a boundry if you ask me.

You already said it yourself that the movie was unrealistic, and that it's not trying to be realistic. So what, it's not realistic, big deal. It's a silly movie. You like it, and that's fine. I don't like it, and that's fine too. So let's just move on.



Sexy I can't help feeling you built yourself up to hate the film even before you saw it. Seems like the minute you read the news that Miller had invited Eve Ensler to give a talk (just a talk mind, not directing it with him) to the women actresses it was like you started hating it from then!