Fifty Shades of Grey

Tools    





Welcome to the human race...
It's those same people who're apparently under the presumption that if a person stood on a street corner with a T shirt that said "rape is awesome" - that this would somehow 'cause people to rape' even though there is no actual study or evidence which suggests this. "Rape culture" doesn't exist anyway - that sounds like a conspiracy theorist term.

Likewise the same PC mindedness is a one-way street; plenty of movies and TV shows feature a woman getting angry or controlling behavior toward a male partner (ex. even actual 'abuse' such as slapping him) and the same hyperbolic controversy doesn't brew.

I have a feeling if the sexes were reversed in this film (ex. young guy hooks up with dominatrix) that it'd generate more laughs than 'controversy' even if the plot was identical.
Rape culture exists. It exists when a sexual assault victim is blamed for what happens to her based on irrelevant factors such as what she was wearing instead of blaming the man who forced himself on her. It exists when male football players will post images of themselves raping a teenage girl online and the news portrays them as the real victims because their committing a crime means that their lives are ruined. It exists when T-shirts that read "Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich" or "Good girls swallow" are less offensive to a public school dress code that sleeveless blouses. It exists when women are attacked and killed over daring to say "no" to a man's unwanted advances, and it exists when those same women are manipulated to say "yes" out of fear of what would happen if they said "no". It even exists in minor things such as ordinary people thinking that criminals being raped in prison is in any way a suitable punishment for their crimes, no matter how horrible said crimes are. It exists in ways both large and small, and what I have listed here is but a footnote in its lengthy and horrid history.

Besides, the whole reason that "being PC" tends to come across as a one-way street is because the divide between the privileged and the unprivileged is so wide that any time the lesser privileged try to overcome the injustices done to them, the privileged shrug it off as being "political correctness gone mad" as if to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing, conscious or not. It's not like gender equality means that women and men are allowed to hit each other with equal force, as some anti-PC types would believe.

Whether or not the sexes were reversed in this film is irrelevant.
__________________
I really just want you all angry and confused the whole time.
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0



Rape culture exists. It exists when a sexual assault victim is blamed for what happens to her based on irrelevant factors such as what she was wearing instead of blaming the man who forced himself on her. It exists when male football players will post images of themselves raping a teenage girl online and the news portrays them as the real victims because their committing a crime means that their lives are ruined. It exists when T-shirts that read "Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich" or "Good girls swallow" are less offensive to a public school dress code that sleeveless blouses. It exists when women are attacked and killed over daring to say "no" to a man's unwanted advances, and it exists when those same women are manipulated to say "yes" out of fear of what would happen if they said "no". It even exists in minor things such as ordinary people thinking that criminals being raped in prison is in any way a suitable punishment for their crimes, no matter how horrible said crimes are. It exists in ways both large and small, and what I have listed here is but a footnote in its lengthy and horrid history.
....... I have to kinda say I don't know what world you might be living in.

I don't hear stories about football players being portrayed as the real victims if they rape someone because it means their football career is over. If anything like that gets mentioned, it's a tragic byproduct of the events, but it's not like the rapist will get away with it. Just like if some psycho goes crazy and kills their family, their children, a bunch of people -- there is still a kind of loss for everybody, including the killer.

I haven't heard any stories about t-shirts like "Good Girls Swallow" being worn in schools. I can't imagine something like that is allowed everywhere. Maybe in certain select schools, kids have been able to get away with it, but kids often get away with stuff in school. Including girls wearing sleeveless tops or other extremely provocative clothing.

Guys shouldn't be wearing very provocative clothing all the time, either, in certain places. If a woman goes around with her boobs practically completely out or something and she got raped, I wouldn't excuse the rapist, but if you strut around and arouse attention in men like that, someone with some nerve might jump you. If I went to a gay bar and wore some pants that let my butt hang out all bare, and I go into the men's room for a moment, a bunch of men are gonna get around me and try to get a piece of me. I've heard a lot of stories from gay men who claim they got raped in bathrooms at gay establishments like that. I think if you do wear sexually provocative clothing, you are contributing to a sexual atmosphere. That doesn't mean it's always wrong, but you can't always think that wearing whatever you want isn't going to cause trouble. That's why the sleeveless tops for girls aren't allowed sometimes -- you can't have a classroom where all the guys can stare at boobs all day. Imagine if girls could go to school practically revealing their breasts to everybody -- who'd pay attention to the teacher? At least if a guy walks around with a "Good Girls Swallow" shirt, he just looks like a jerk and a clown.



Sorry Donnie, but yeah, you're way off. No one, as far as I know, has any problem with the fact that it contains bondage (and very very little of it) it's the guys behavior that people find problematic.
ya I went back and read some posts and saw the thing that people had an issue with is that it was glamorous and abusive relationship.
__________________
Yeah, there's no body mutilation in it



"Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich"*is part of rape culture. I have seen it worn once as the gym, I thought the guy looked stupid but never associated him or the shirt with rape.also I don't believe anyone deserves to get raped for the clothes they wear, but certain clothing does make a statement, hell all clothes is really a representation.if you wear a sexually provocative outfit you'll probably a sexually provocative reaction.



Registered User
"Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich"*is part of rape culture.
Non sequiter - "rape culture" doesn't exist in any mainstream accepted venue outside of some religious fundamentalist segment, or 3rd world countries like Saudi, that's just a silly PC term meant to foster paranoia.

Sure there are individuals with this mindset, but the idea that there's any actual "culture" (to the degree that a shirt with a joke slogan is viewed as part of this "culture") is basically a conspiracy theory.

I have seen it worn once as the gym, I thought the guy looked stupid but never associated him or the shirt with rape.also I don't believe anyone deserves to get raped for the clothes they wear, but certain clothing does make a statement,
Again it's a PC double standard. A T-shirt like this isn't viewed as part of some 'grand conspiracy'

hell all clothes is really a representation.if you wear a sexually provocative outfit you'll probably a sexually provocative reaction.
Nope, the vast majority of people in this country aren't such pigs that they think a woman wearing an attractive outfit thinks that gives them a 'right' to violate her - we are not Saudia Arabia - just because a minority of freaks exist who think like this doesn't mean it's part of some 'grander conspiracy'.

The idea behind the 'rape culture' propaganda is to paint this as a more mainstream thing than it actually is, and promote the unproven idea that a T-shirt with a joke slogan will somehow create a 'slippery slope' which will lead to this.



Registered User
Rape culture exists.
It exists as much as "Communism exists" in America - there are actual communist parties sure, but that doesn't mean there's any serious Glenn-Beck style 'movement' on a wide scale to bring Marxism to America.

There's no serious or notable demographic which exists in the West which considers it acceptable. Just because "some fringe group somewhere" does doesn't mean it's part of a wider conspiracy.

It exists when a sexual assault victim is blamed for what happens to her based on irrelevant factors such as what she was wearing instead of blaming the man who forced himself on her
When does that happen in any serious court of law? Some crazy religious extremist saying this on the internet isn't the same thing.

It exists when male football players will post images of themselves raping a teenage girl online and the news portrays them as the real victims because their committing a crime means that their lives are ruined.
Right, and because "Muslim terrorism" does exist - we therefore need to life in paranoia of some "Muslim conspiracy" to bring Sharia Law to the US on any scale wider than some random internet kook.

It exists when T-shirts that read "Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich" or "Good girls swallow" are less offensive to a public school dress code that sleeveless blouses.
While I agree on you regarding sleeveless blouses, and the fact that the West is still overly sexually prudish and hypocritical in that area - there's still a double standard. A shirt like that is a humorous context; and I posted a T-shirt above which wouldn't generate the same politically correct controversy.

Being able to not mentally differentiate between humor and entertainment, and actual threats is what the real problem is. To some extreme-PC minded people there's no difference between a T-shirt with a sarcastic slogan and an Iranian Mullah actually approving the marriage of a 10 year old girl to a 40 year old man. This 'black/white' ideology is dangerous.

It exists when women are attacked and killed over daring to say "no" to a man's unwanted advances,
In that case it exists because of sociopathic individuals who have a desire to harm others for their own gain - you presupposition again is the same as presupposing that video games or movies like Grand Theft Auto "causes violence".

Why is it then that rape is more accepted in countries like Saudi Arabia which are much more prudish with what they allow for entertainment?

and it exists when those same women are manipulated to say "yes" out of fear of what would happen if they said "no".
Non sequiter - using an 'ambiguous term' like "manipulated" with an indefinite 'grey area' doesn't fit the bill - unless it met a legal definition of coercion which overrid the legal definition of consent, then it was consent.

It even exists in minor things such as ordinary people thinking that criminals being raped in prison is in any way a suitable punishment for their crimes, no matter how horrible said crimes are.
Non sequiter. Many people would express schadenfaude if a child killer was killed in prison - that doesn't mean it's part of some "murder culture" conspiracy - it's just people wishing for karma.

It exists in ways both large and small, and what I have listed here is but a footnote in its lengthy and horrid history.
Many of the claims above are nitpicking - ex. you intermingle legitimate concerns such as our negative attitudes toward women displaying their beauty, but combine those with conspiracy-sounding concerns - such as that a T-shirt with a humorous slogan is somehow part of a 'butterfly' effect which leads to actual rape.

Besides, the whole reason that "being PC" tends to come across as a one-way street is because the divide between the privileged and the unprivileged is so wide that any time the lesser privileged try to overcome the injustices done to them,
But that's completely unfounded, and is based on the "two wrongs make a right" idea. The average woman has never been raped, and the average man has never raped - a person can't claim the same victimhood as a woman born in a country with Sharia law just for being born with the same set of genitals.

the privileged shrug it off as being "political correctness gone mad" as if to absolve themselves of any wrongdoing, conscious or not.
PC is based on the false idea that "privileged/underprivileged" can be broadly generalized by something as simple as skin color, sex, etc - and that anyone labeled an 'underprivileged class' has a default claim to severe victimhood.

It's not like gender equality means that women and men are allowed to hit each other with equal force, as some anti-PC types would believe.
I don't believe that no - I'd say the reason that a 'woman hitting a man' isn't viewed as serious is because more often than not the man has the ability to hit the women with greater force and cause more damage, so it makes sense (ex. just like an adult hitting a child would illicit more negativity than the reverse).

However even if a woman and man hit each other with equal force, the reaction to the latter would be much more controversial in the media simply because of the sexes, while the former is often a source of humor yet not generating controversy.

Whether or not the sexes were reversed in this film is irrelevant.
It'd definitely relevant because it reveals how much of the controversy is PC hyperbole.

I declare it must from henceforth be known as . . . Fifty Shades of Ghey.

That's so homophobic - and will lead to gays being stoned in Saudi Arabia - better call the PC Police.



"Cool story babe, now make me a sandwich"*is part of rape culture. I have seen it worn once as the gym, I thought the guy looked stupid but never associated him or the shirt with rape.also I don't believe anyone deserves to get raped for the clothes they wear, but certain clothing does make a statement, hell all clothes is really a representation.if you wear a sexually provocative outfit you'll probably a sexually provocative reaction.
A shirt that says Cool Story, Babe. Now Make Me a Sandwich. isn't a part of any rape culture in my eyes. That sounds like something Al Bundy from Married... With Children would wear.

What if a lesbian wore it? You certainly never hear about lesbian rapists much, but even a woman could wear that shirt. Even lesbians could be a little dominating in relationships. That's all it's really about -- showing a little dominance. It can be a joke. A lot of times, women even like a man being a little dominant over them. Gay men certainly like it from other men all the time.

I think you are neurotic and afraid of everything if you think little things like wearing a shirt like that is a symbol of rape culture. Men being a little masculine and a little brutish is hot. That's all that shirt is about. That is not a sign he's a rapist or a supporter of rape.

You wanna know what real rapists wear?



Very loud, very colorful, hypnotic sweaters!
Attachments
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sweater.jpg
Views:	513
Size:	47.5 KB
ID:	20110  



Itís A Classic Rope-A-Dope
What if a lesbian wore it? You certainly never hear about lesbian rapists much
See Sexy, your my leader for funniest MoFo now. And you thought I didn't like you.
__________________
Letterboxd



Registered User
A shirt that says Cool Story, Babe. Now Make Me a Sandwich. isn't a part of any rape culture in my eyes. That sounds like something Al Bundy from Married... With Children would wear.

What if a lesbian wore it? You certainly never hear about lesbian rapists much, but even a woman could wear that shirt. Even lesbians could be a little dominating in relationships. That's all it's really about -- showing a little dominance. It can be a joke. A lot of times, women even like a man being a little dominant over them. Gay men certainly like it from other men all the time.

I think you are neurotic and afraid of everything if you think little things like wearing a shirt like that is a symbol of rape culture. Men being a little masculine and a little brutish is hot. That's all that shirt is about. That is not a sign he's a rapist or a supporter of rape.

You wanna know what real rapists wear?



Very loud, very colorful, hypnotic sweaters!
I'd trust the guy in the "shut up and make me a sandwich" shirt around my kids a lot more than the clean-cut, suit and tie wearing, religious leader that's for sure.



http://j-walkblog.com/images/freddy.jpg

That's also true - women do want do a man to be the dominant one from a purely biological POV (humans are just animals, and our biological sources of sexual attraction are based on millions of years of evolutionary development).

There's no way a woman like Jennifer Aniston is going to date a guy who's a completely pussy (other than in a bad sitcom or rom com). Dominance in a relationship context though doesn't mean "control" or "abuse" like what we see in 3rd world countries like Saudi Arabia, where women are basically 'property' - it just refers to the interaction style they prefer, even though they're both peers and no one literally "controls" the other.

The problem is that the PC mindset creates a "black/white" mindset - where someone can't distinguish between a stupid T-shirt and an actual rape threat, or distinguish between someone saying "women prefer dominance" to "women should be barefoot, naked, and pregnant in the kitchen - in their burkas".

And where even saying things which are biologically correct (such as that women are attracted to a dominant interaction style) are still politically incorrect. PCism is basically the new prudery now that religious-minded prudery is falling out of style.



You know... I really have to agree with 90sAce there.

I don't know if women ALWAYS want a dominant man in their life because of biological reasons, but I could believe it to an extent.



Registered User
You know... I really have to agree with 90sAce there.

I don't know if women ALWAYS want a dominant man in their life because of biological reasons, but I could believe it to an extent.
Well who are women more attracted to? This:



Or this:



It's the same biological reasons that men aren't attracted to this:



This is true in nearly all mammals for evolutionary reasons, not just homo sapiens. The pop culture and trendy thing to say is that "everyone's attracted to a different thing", but it's just not true from a basic biological science perspective. "The Definitive Book of Body Language" does a great job explaining this in layman's terms.

Again sometime's what's scientifically correct isn't politically correct.



I definitely believe that biology plays a big role in these things.



That's pretty simplistic. If you're asking which picture women are generally attracted to, that's one thing. But that's not really the question: the question is what people are attracted to in practice. And in practice people can and do become more attracted to each other as they get to know each other, for reasons that aren't primarily physical. The causality flows the other way: falling in love with someone tends to make you admire their physical traits more. I find my wife more attractive now than I did when we were dating, and I found her more attractive then than I did when we first met.

This won't necessarily make sense to someone who hasn't been in love, but it's true.



Registered User
I definitely believe that biology plays a big role in these things.
Attraction on a purely sexual level is 100% biological, since that's where it's been developing in mammals since before homo sapiens even existed.

Actual 'relationships' are more complicated since personality quirks come into play (ex. shared interest, mutual trust, etc) so the attraction isn't purely biological - ex. a smart guy might be attracted to a girl who looks good, but he'd be wise enough not to enter a serious relationship with her if she has dysfunctional personality.

And real dominance is about strong character and personality/body language. Plenty of guys who actually abuse women or children are complete pussies - basically abusive behavior is "fake dominance", people who lack any real dominance or social influence resort to it to overcompensate for their insecurities.

That's pretty simplistic. If you're asking which picture women are generally attracted to, that's one thing. But that's not really the question: the question is what people are attracted to in practice.

And in practice people can and do become more attracted to each other as they get to know each other, for reasons that aren't primarily physical.

The causality flows the other way: falling in love with someone tends to make you admire their physical traits more. I find my wife more attractive now than I did when we were dating, and I found her more attractive then than I did when we first met.
I addressed that above - in actual relationships the attraction becomes more than just physical, since it involves things like mutual interests and life experiences (ex. more like a type of 'friendship'). In the situation above I was talking exclusively about biological attraction.

The biological roots of attraction however are fairly simplistic in comparison, and are rooted mainly in body language and certain physical traits (ex. waist/hips ratio).

This won't necessarily make sense to someone who hasn't been in love, but it's true.
The above post was about the root of biological attraction exclusively - "attraction" in the sense of friendship, trust, etc is different.