Actors vs Actresses?

Ok, I take on board what you're saying. I think we both just have different tastes in regards to who is the better Lennie.

btw, I never said Chaney was a poor choice for the part (if that's the way it came accross, that is not what I intended). He actually gave a decent performance, though Malkovich, I thought, was particularly good. So good that I watched the 1992 version 3 times in one week. Haven't watched it in about a decade though, but remember the film rather well.

Spud, ok, I see you merged my posts again.

I thought replying indvidually to each person on a seperate page was the right way to go, especially since the quote button allows for quoting/replying to one person at a time.

Why is my responding in seperate posts such a big deal?

Just curious, I've never come across a forum that merges posts like this.

From now on, I'll try to merge them myself. I'm not trying to mess up the thread btw.

Just hit the edit button, if you have more to say. It's simply a means of keeping things manageable.

If you have one sentence, in two back-to-back posts, please just edit and add to the original post. If you're going to be long-winded, however, go for double-posts.

Sure, if you hit on a separate topic, by all means, speak on that separately.

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"I was walking down the street with my friend and he said, "I hear music", as if there is any other way you can take it in. You're not special, that's how I receive it too. I tried to taste it but it did not work." - Mitch Hedberg

Ok, noted. Feel free to delete this message, plus the one I made above yours once you have read them.

I'm going to make a concious effort to merge my own posts. Apologies for any inconvenience.

I really like the movie, but are you serious when you classify Stever Martins role as iconic and epic?

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"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo.

This thread is particularly iconic.

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"Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Mel Blanc was the iconic cartoon actor.

June Foray was the iconic cartoon actress.

Thanks for giving me negative rep when at least I've joined in and given you more than 30 examples of women giving great performances.

Anyway you said "It seems certain actresses complain about not being considered sex symbols over 40, rather than for a lack of roles." - when I refuted this you asked for specific examples - here you are:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...s-1698145.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/c...-industry.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ry-ageism.html

Also hefty spelling errors occur when people are tired and rushed. It's not great to pick on people for spelling errors when you don't know what's going on at their end. What matters is what they're writing about not their English.

Anyway I don't expect I'll be adding to the thread anymore. So good luck in finding more films featuring iconic women. If you've not seen any of the foreign films I've mentioned, do have a look as they're very good.

Thanks for NOT addressing the issue of women allegedly being given no real roles in the film industry.

You said, "There are more weighty roles given to men than there are to women."

So I provided you with a list of 25 AFI top rated film stars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI's_100_Years%E2%80%A6100_Stars) and I asked you to prove, via the exhaustive filographies provided, evidence that women were treated less fairly than men in regards to roles, and once again, you have failed to do so.

I hope in your next post you will address this, as you made an absurd claim that somehow women are ill treated in the film industry, and this couldn't be further from the truth.



A bunch of pantomine dames and whining luvvies is hardly evidence of an epidemic.

Plus, it seems whilst men generally are left to get on with life, there are endless campaigns for womens 'issues' in some form of another, so yet more complaining is to be expected.

But when we examine the facts, i.e. women over 40 in mainstream cinema (and independant films in fact) are still actively working, and, indeed, are still being given main roles, we can see that there is no real discrimination at all.

Sure, the 'sexy' roles are generally given to younger women, but what do you expect?

The film indurstry wants to make money at the end of the day and will give actors/actresses roles they deem worthy to do so.

If older actresses are jealous of younger ones because they aren't being given 'sexy' roles, then they should live with it. Just like men do in fact.

Most Hollywood 'heart-throbs' of today are younger men, who are muscular and are expected to be in shape, yet do you hear older male actors bleating on about 'discrimination'?

No, they just get on with it, and are happy to find other roles to suit their needs.

If women over 40 were genuinely out of work, don't you think we'd see a significant drop in many of the leading (and lesser) actresses filmographies?

Don't you think the Academy Awards would struggle to find a Best Actress to fill the category each and every year?

And, oh look, let's see the Best Actress (as just one example) category listed this past decade, shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Actress#2000s

And look, multiple nominations (and wins) from women over 40.

Streep, Keaton, Burstyn, Mirren, Bening, Bullock, Kidman, Staunton, Leo, Huffman, Christie, Allen, Dench, Spacek were all at least 40 when either nominated (or won) an academy award for Best Actress alone!

There are roles for women, but older women have to adapt to other roles (besides the 'sexy' type) as these naturally go to younger women (and men, generally, for that matter too).

There is a vile, negative obsession in Hollywood where the emphasis is on looks/youth, but that seems more cultural than anything else. You can't fight the aging process, you just have to deal with it. No amount of botox will stop someone being 50. Just aint gonna happen.

Ok. But when you gave Some Like it Hot as Monroe's best acting turn (and spelt her name incorrectly to Munro) it made me think you hadn't actually watched any of her films and just picked the film she's widely known for. It's funny, but that film was actually a 3-way performance between her, Lemon and Curtis, with Curtis stealing the show by a mile. Monroe actually showed her best talents in Bus Stop, The Seven Year Itch and, to a lesser extent, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (Jane Russell played an important role here too, but not enough to steal the show imo).

Thanks. But would you care to add more of an opinion overall here?

lol, Eric I give you props for long winded posts about a particularly boring topic. And no, I won't address the OP anymore. You still address responses as if you have the master key of iconic female performances which is pretty ridiculous considering how opinion based this thread should be.

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If I had a dollar for every existential crisis I've ever had, does money really even matter?

So 'boring' that you felt compelled to comment early on. And equally so 'boring' that this thread has already spanned 3 pages in a 24 hour period.

Then don't. If you find this so 'boring' then why comment?

To flame bait perhaps?

It's not 'opinion' when a blanket statement such as 'There are more weighty roles given to men than there are to women' is given as an excuse as to why actresses generally give less impressive and/or forgetable performances compared to actors.

Its akin to a sore loser blaming his tennis racket when losing at Wimbledon.

It's not 'opnion' either when exhaustive filmographies are available online for reference, which proves that both actors and actresses have been given ample chances to prove themselves in various roles covering various genres.

And to think I actually held you in high regard earlier on in this post. I'm pretty disappointed actually.

Eric , with all due respect this thread started out as a flame job.

I dunno if I find it boring, but half of the posts here are people either insulting one another, defending themselves from insults, or discussions about moderation and posting practices, so I'm not sure that's really evidence of how interesting it is.

Anyway, Fiscal doesn't flame bait. And while simple statements of fact are not technically opinions, they might as well be when there's no plausible way of measuring such things. When that's the case, we're all left to make educated guesses, so it can't be dismissed quite so easily.

“You know, when I first went into the movies Lionel Barrymore played my grandfather. Later he played my father and finally he played my husband. If he had lived I'm sure I would have played his mother. That's the way it is in Hollywood. The men get younger and the women get older.” Lillian Gish quote

I wanted to participate sure, but your responses are becoming trite.

Sure, lets pretend that most of the posts are not members completely frustrated with you


FWIW, your right, I should just not respond anymore. My apologies for bringing this off track any further. Continue thread...

I addressed your comment back on page 1 and I'd like to hear your response please.

Also, look guys, I want this thread to be a bit more engaging. Please can future posts address the topic rather than us getting into arguments.

And look, I'm hot headed and I ruffle easily, my bad. I'm going to try to bite my tongue and not get flustered too, ok?

Edit:
No, Dexter, it didn't. If it was flaming then it'd say something like 'actresses are not at all talented', which it didn't. It was about, on average, who tends to give the most iconic performances, actors or actresses. It's a topic I think that merits some dialogue and I'd like to get it back on track.

Hows about you make the next post, and contribute to my OP, ok?