The 2008 Election

"The Guardian agrees with 7thson, universe implodes".

__________________
http://www.last.fm/user/diezelpower/

It hasn't reached us here quite yet, but R.I.P., adi.

__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

Go Obama!!!!

I want to mention that I don't agree with the McCain ad and the young vet who voiced his opinion (on general principles), but I certainly believe that the vet is honest and that McCain has every right to try to attract his voters any way he can. The ad wasn't addressed to me or tramp or honeykid or anybody who isn't going to listen to it or watch, even though I heard it loud and clear and saw for myself that the young man paid for his beliefs with an artificial left leg. Bleeding hearts should bleed both ways, don't you agree? To quote Daniel Webster in The Devil and Daniel Webster, "God Bless the United States and the men who made her free."

Yes, most of the claims about Obama are false or greatly exaggerated, IMO.

Now, I don't know if you've ever gone to church or not but personally I've gone a lot. I have never control of my clergy or his / her mouth. Have you?

I've served on boards before. Did I do a background check on all the other board members? Nope.

In point of fact, I haven't done a background check on any of my acquaintances either.

However, I do know my friends better. I know my husband a GREAT deal better. These types of ties strike me as much closer and worrisome.

__________________
Bleacheddecay

Firstly, I don't have to "conceive of an individual who disagrees with you because they've come to a different conclusion" as the evidence was there in the video, as well as in your reply. Also, I've not claimed to have the experiences that the man in the video has had or deny that he's experienced what he has.

You're right that I know nothing about this man. I could make assumptions from the short clip that he's fought in Iraq, lost friends and comrades and been injured but was (and is) proud to do so for his country, but I don't know that for sure. Just because he says he has doesn't make it so. I have no reason to disbelieve him but, as you quite rightly say, I know nothing about this man. I choose to believe him because I don't think he's lying about his experiences. I also believe that he believes what he's saying (about McCain and Obama) and that it's the truth as he sees it.

You say that I brazenly generalized about him and those like him, but the use of the word "brazenly" says more about what you think about what I said, than what I actually said.

I didn't say that someone would have to be brainwashed in order to believe that the war in Iraq is right and that, over the last 50 years, America's military action overseas has always been in defense of itself, in the pursuit of freedom and that it has proceeded in the right and proper way. You wouldn't have to be brainwashed, but I think it's less likely that you'd think that way had you not been born in America in the last 50 years, born into a family that believed this to be true and, therefore didn't question any of it, into a low wage earning family, without a college education, in a rural area with low employment and minimal career opportunites, into an immigrant family, into a 'minority' family. I don't know for sure that the man in the video falls into any of those categories but, I would say that statisically it's more likely that more of those apply to him than don't. Also, if he joined the Army in the last couple of years, then there's about a 30% chance that he doesn't have a High School Diploma. That doesn't make someone without one stupid or unintelligent, but it's my understanding that it's the basic requirement in the US for most employers.

I don't know that I have any insight into the war in Iraq. Maybe I have more than I know. I resent that you say that I judged and dissmissed that man's life. I most certainly did not do either of those things. Neither did I dismiss his views. I did judge them. I am allowed to judge them, that's my right and, if I wish, I am allowed to express my judgement. After all, that's what you did with my opinions, as you had every right to do.

His views are his opinion. Your views are your opinion. My views are my opinion. I disagreed with his (and, in doing so, it would appear with yours too) and expressed my displeasure that this kind of 'patriotism' passes as patriotism in the US and that any disagreement or questioning of it is often immediately and vehemently set upon by similarly thinking patriots and treated as a kind of betrayal of the US, its citizens and fighting men and women. As I'm not an American I would hope that I'm not seen in the same way but, if I am, I'm willing for that to be the case.

It seems that, to some, to disagree or question the 'official story' is the same as being a traitor. As if, by exercising your democratic, as well as human right under the law, to question authority, you're dishonouring and belittling the memory of those who've died in all the conflicts and wars. Sounds more like fear than patriotism to me. More like the fear of dictatorships than the open questioning and discussion of democracies.

I would like to say here that I'm not saying that the US is a dictatorship. Nor am I saying that Bush (or any other President) was a dictator or despot or anything like that. What I am saying is that a populace afraid to question its leaders and the reason they do what they do in their name is more akin to the populace of a dictators country, than a free and open democracy.

You said that, if I disagreed that I should say so. Although I admit that I didn't use the phrase "I disagree" I did think that I made it plain that that was the case. After all, I don't think that you'd have replied as you did had you not thought so.

I didn't offer a rebuttal but, as I wasn't debating or attempting to disprove what the man said, I had no need to.

As to whether or not it was a thoughtful point depends on whether you gave any thought to it. If you pondered whether or not the US has a history of invading sovereign countries, covert operations, organising uprisings, regime change, overthrowing elected governments, training and/or supplying guerilla groups/rebel forces, installing puppet governments (and a host of other things that I'm either unaware of or unable to recall at the moment) all in the name of freedom and democracy rather than because of greed, fear or losing control of an area/strategic point/natural resource, then it was a thoughtful point. If not, then it wasn't.

It is a serious video, whether it deserves a serious response or not is up to the viewer but, nevertheless, I was serious in what I said (in reference to US foreign policy/military action of the last 50 years or so, as well as the fighting/dying for freedom) and just because I used the word horseshit (I'd have used the word bollocks, but I'm led to believe that it's not a well known word Stateside and I wanted to make sure that people understood how strongly I felt) doesn't mean that I was either disrespectful or flippant.

That's what I'm talking about. Well said.

__________________
We are both the source of the problem and the solution, yet we do not see ourselves in this light...

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Li...c-open/805381/

For those of you that missed it (or don't live in the U.S.), I don't know what to make of this, but I laughed my ass off.

ah damn u got in there before me, pretty funny though wasnt it

__________________

Undercoverlovers 100 REDUX

just wondering, why do people have to wait in such long queues to vote? I just heard people are waiting hours in line, is it true?

History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce. - Marx

It always takes me about five minutes to vote.
Go figure.

__________________
R.I.P.

Yes, it's true. Because historically, this beacon of democracy called the United States usually had only 50% turnout for elections. We are an apathetic nation.

This year, both campaigns have urged voters to vote early in the states where they can. Both camps were worried about record turnouts and voters going home on Tuesday.

So combine the facts that polling places are swamped by new voters and many more early voters, they seem to be overwhelmed.

I won't even get into the policies of many of these election boards that also makes voting more difficult for people. There are lawsuits going on all over the place.

Quite frankly, it's appalling that we have these problems with our elections. One more reason that I believe my country is backward as hell. We make incredibly bad decisions all the way down to what kind of voting machine to use. It's time we started using our brains.

And I'm also frustrated that the media talks about this once every four years. There are still many problems... but, it might be that we are getting a bit better.

Tuesday will tell us a lot about whether we've improved.

I live in a rural Republican area where I've never waited one minute to vote. I don't have this problem but obviously more urban areas will probably be swamped....

I thought it was great! It won't make me vote for McCain but it did make me think he has pretty darn good comedic timing. He can also handle being the brunt of a joke well. I think that's wonderful!

Oh and I dislike him just a little bit less.

I think there are two things going on here but I'm not sure.

The first thing is that people are voting early. Normal voting hasn't started yet. Now I could be wrong but perhaps there is a bit of paperwork or something to handle if you are in a state where you can and where you choose to vote early?

Also there are certain voter suppression tactics going on by people who want to make sure their candidate or party wins. It's not the first time and won't be the last but it is reprehensible. Often "running" out of the correct papers or having machines break down or not enough machines, anything to keep the "wrong" people from voting.

Yeah, me too. He seems like a really nice man. How (why) the hell did he lose to Bush in the primaries 8 years ago?

Well, perhaps Bush had more money and more ruthlessness?

While the "nicer" man sometimes gets a bit "lost?"

Addidass, because Bush ran a dirty campaign against McCain using the disgusting robocalls and other tactics -- the same tactics he is now using against Obama. It's all about getting people afraid to vote for somebody by making them look scary. McCain's wife had drug problems and they had adopted a non-white child and Bush thought that was something that somehow mattered.

Yep, that's the way these people run election campaigns.

And it seems to be working. People are now becoming "afraid" of Obama -- based solely on soundbytes like "Socialist!" and "Joe the Plumber" (symbolizing the poor taxpayer that will go broke paying taxes which is completely and utterly false). They have also gone out of their way to make sure that Obama looks scary to people.

And yea, it's about making those people that have no ability to actually think through these soundbytes vote against their own self-interest because of some vague notion that Obama is some scary socialist.

I feel sick. McCain swore he wouldn't go down into the gutter and that is exactly what he has done. And their are so many angry Republicans now that think Obama will "kill America." They've heard all about Obama's "anti-American" friends.

So, to summarize, McCain was once beat by dirty politics and now he's doing it. I guess he learned it is the only way to win.

We have a government that contains elements of socialism. Obama is not presenting ANYTHING that deserves this label. It is created solely to scare people. If it works, believe me, I won't have any hope for the electorate in this country to actually use their brains.

Only one more week. I do like to watch Stewart and Colbert on election night. Those guys are pretty damn funny. They help ease the tension in these times of hopeless irritation I and so many others feel towards our silly little government.

Thanks for reminding me. I'm having a bad day, worried about this election, which made me post that last post. I get so angry and frustrated with how political campaigns are run (especially by some.)

But then I just heard two poll numbers -- Gallop and CBS that both show double digit number leads for Obama. *feels better*

I can't take this anymore! I just want it be over.

BTW, I may be taking Matt (my 13 year old) to Manassas, VA tomorrow night for Obama's last rally. I work not too far away and it's a planning day (no students) and he can come with me and we can then leave early afternoon for a 9pm rally.

I want to go so badly and want him to experience the energy of a presidential campaign. I vividly remember doing the same thing back in the 70s (saw Carter). I'm hesitant, though, since traffic will be horrific as 40,000 descend into Manassas. AAhhh... I still haven't decided what to do...

My mother told me yesterday that if McCain wins she may go running through the streets screaming. Which is a little alarming, my mother doesn't usually get that worked up about this stuff. In fact this is the first time she's voted in awhile I guess. Its good that she doesn't post here much because I know she'd have more than a few things to say about this whole "election business" as well.

So yeah, I guess I kind of hope Obama wins, I really don't want my mother to end up in an institution or anything.