Game of Thrones, Season 5

Um, what? Way to reach there, buddy.

What Stannis did was horrible. Awful. Evil. And what they showed was heartbreaking, yes, but not particularly graphic or gruesome. We see and hear her screaming and crying out for her parents. But we don't see her actually burn. We don't see her corpse afterwards.

And I don't think it was "wildly" out of character for Stannis to do this, at least not in the context of the show. They've been building up to this for awhile now. There have been no shortage of hints that this was coming. It's also not the first time Stannis has allowed Melisandre to murder a member of his family nor is it the first time he's stood by while watching someone burn to death. The only thing that has ever truly mattered to Stannis is getting the throne. That's all we've seen from him since the beginning. He's shown no great affection for anyone. He's all ambition.

I found yesterday's episode to be emotional, but not at all shocking.

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They've been building up the fact that he will have to make this particular choice, though that's a bit different than building up which choice he'll make. If anything they've been building up him choosing the opposite, by showing him affectionately interacting with his daughter (whereas earlier he was a bit colder with her). I guess it's that last part that's disconcerting: they deliberately went away from how he'd been portrayed toward his daughter earlier, and they seem to have done it only to make the inevitable choice more upsetting.

I'm drawing a blank on this for some reason...?

Well, when he's watched people burn, it's generally been as an execution, not just a sacrifice. A lot of what he's said and done has been as consistent with duty and lawfulness as with ambition, though as I mentioned earlier, this is definitely something that's shifted a bit from the books. So maybe it's hard to say exactly what the show has shown us about this character without mixing in what we know about him from the other source, especially when his duty and his ambition overlap a lot.

Season 4 should be pretty exciting. Some new people. Some deaths. The general awesome faire that is Game of Thrones.

If you mean you haven't even seen season 4 yet, you'll definitely wanna steer clear of this thread for the time being. Here's the thread about season 4.

I recall one instance where he showed some positive interaction between him and his daughter, which is not itself enough to make what he did truly shocking. IMO.


Renley? I realize he was a threat to Stannis's claim to the throne and they were going to war anyway, but he's still family and it was still murder.


Well I know nothing of him except what has been shown on television. And I see nothing but blind, cruel ambition.

That's exactly my point: they've never shown this side of him before. He's always seemed cold and distant. It's only when this choice was imminent that they went the other way, purely to up the stakes and make the choice more horrific. If they were trying to lay the groundwork to make his choice seem plausible, this is the exact opposite of that. They had to choose between making the choice more believable and making it more heart-wrenching, and they chose the latter.

Ah, yes. The trouble with this is that Renly's claim was clearly illegitimate (from pretty much any angle), so opposing him was completely consistent with either view of Stannis.

I don't remember how explicit this choice was, off the top of my head. IE: if he officially sanctioned it or just sort of gave Mellisandra some of his, uh, Kingliness, which she then in turn used to assassinate Renly. I might go back and check.

I'd be curious to see whether or not any other TV-only watchers have had the same impression. I think this might be one of those things that can be read either way depending on how you orient your thinking, and in the case of book readers they're going to start with a different orientation. A lot of what he does up until this point has roughly fit with either depending on what you're looking for. Which would explain why some people find this last choice completely natural, and others are kinda shocked.

I've always had the impression that Stannis would do anything to fulfill his ambition and he doesn't care about anything except his precious throne, which is one of the reasons I hate his character. The other is that he's a religious fanatic or whatever you wanna call him, but I hate Melisandre even more.
Anyway, I wasn't very shocked by his choice, although I wanted him to do something... to stop it. I was thinking that maybe he would sort of redeem himself.

I was reading this article, which points out what Melisandre said to Stannis a few seasons ago..

I never saw Stannis as someone who cares only about throne. He is man who cares about law over everything and Davos is prof of that. I also never saw him as religious fanatic. Ambitious? Nop. He held Storm's End and destroyed Iron Fleet in Greyjoy rebellion, all he got in the end was hellhole of Dragonstone, he never said a word because Roberth was hos older brother. He is someone who respects law over all. But I may have this opinion because of books. This was pushed scene and out of character, they made him care about his daughter and all of that out of thin air, just so they can push this scene... Not saying scene itself was bad. I also in post before said why this is horrible political and military decision. By the way, Stannis is stubborn even in the show, but here he changed opinion on his daughter in matter of days...

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I find Stannis to be overly ambitious for sure, but what you guys are talking about shocked me. Maybe because I had just seen the touching scene with his daughter Saturday night. Anyhow, I think a lot of my view on Stannis is admittedly informed by Davos. Davos is one of my favorite characters and I think I always wanted to see Stannis the way he does. At times I really like him at times I find him despicable.

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Just saw the new episode. A step-down from the previous one but the last minutes were pretty damn awesome. The epicness of riding a dragon can not be described!

Just watched it. The final scene was awesome. Besides that and Stannis barbecuing his daughter, it was a pretty average episode really.

It was horrible what Stannis did to his daughter but once Melisandre said it to him an episode or two back I figured he would do it. I didn't think there would be any last minute reprieve because this is Game of Thrones. I mean, I hated it because Shireen was such a sweet, kind child and for her to fall at the hands of Melisandre without intervention from her parents was cold, but falls well within the themes and actions on Game of the Thrones, the series. It's a brutal world.

What I'm waiting for is what Davos will do when he returns. Will he plan to kill Melisandre or even Stannis? I'm hoping for at least one of those. I'm also hoping that Stannis' men will turn against him but I don't think it will happen. They didn't lift a hand to stop the burning and even forced her to the pyre. But I'm waiting for a righteous resolve to Stannis and Melisandre.

Other things: Arya stalking Ser Meryn Trant. The way he kept saying, "Too old" in the brothel was sick and I was afraid he'd see Arya and pick her without recognizing her. I'm wondering if he didn't see her...I thought he did a couple of times and she wasn't really hiding that well. Plus, she didn't supply the "potion" for the Thin Man, so we'll see if she goes through with that.

Was wondering if Alliser Thorne was going to let Jon Snow and the Wildlings through the gate. Glad he did, but the men of Castle Black looked none too happy. I loved when the giant walked through and their eyes got fairly large.

Was glad to see Ellaria Sand have to bend the knee and re-swear her loyalty to Doran, while the Sand Snakes looked on in disbelief. I still don't trust Ellaria and think she'll try something before Jaime gets back to King's Landing. I enjoyed the whole "breaking bread" with the Martells scene, with Jaime very much at ease and seemingly enjoying making concessions with Doran just as long he gets his niece back. But, given that Cersei got that fortelling from the forest witch about her (Cersei's) children's futures, I wonder about Myrcella's immediate furture.

Now for the pièce de résistance of the show, the entire coliseum sequence. Dany's reluctance to start the arena fights, Tyrion, Hizdahr, and Daario trading quips back-and-forth; the fight-before-the-fight, with the giant gladiator taking off his opponents head; the real, three-way fight, with Jorah finally triumphing before the Sons of the Harpy attack; the protection of the Queen; Hizdahr's death; Dany taking Jorah's hand in trust to escape; Tyrion saving Missandei when she gets left behind; the whole gang getting trapped by the Sons of the Harpy, with only a small number of the Unsullied to protect them; and Dany calling on Drogon and Drogon coming to the rescue. I had to watch this whole sequence twice and only on the second go-round did I see Drogon step on two bad guys when he landed, crushing them really well. All the flame-spouting, the grabbing-the-Sons-of-the-Harpy-by-the-head and flinging them apart, Dany taking the spear from Drogon, Drogon roaring into her face, then almost smiling when face-to-face with her, then Dany taking the triumphant ride to the rescue, albeit leaving her friends alone in the arena. Not really worried about them...I think most of the bad guys have fled and most are toast anyway.

I didn't really think they could follow up last week's episode with one equally as good but I believe they did it. Very, very satisfied with the outcome. I don't know how the finale will top the last two episodes or if they'll even try but if it had ended last night, I would be satisfied with Season Five.

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Well they did spell out Trant is a pedophile. But nothing shown though.

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If I understand Yoda correctly, it's the way the show handled this change by Stannis. It was so clearly foreshadowed and just played for impact and sensationalism.



I mean really? He says to her that she is her daughter and he wouldn't give up on her! And then has this inane conversation with a CHILD about how much she would help him.

Bast**d. I never liked him in the books, but in the show, he is being portrayed as just the most heartless man. I don't even understand how Davros can respect him. And he's burned people for this religion. He's a zealot or he's a man so afraid that he's not worthy that he needs magic.

I think Yoda's spoiler warning makes sense. But I honestly don't know.

I'm afraid of next week. Afraid. Nothing to do with Stannis….

Also, while I loved that Harpy attack, in the book, Drogon takes Dany out of the pits and it just makes more sense. Here, she just leaves everyone behind? Why? Does she now think she is so much more important than everyone else? I don't think that fits her character either.

UGH! I don't mean to be complaining -- I see I am -- I'm still entertained but not sure about the showrunners and the writing.

EDIT to add: BTW, I always re-watch the episode on Monday when I get home from work. I can't watch this episode again. I'm not sure I will ever watch it again.

They told us in season 2 that this would happen.

It's not about making the choice heart wrenching or plausible, it's about the fact that stannis just lost the last part of him that was human. If he is willing to burn his own daughter alive, he is willing to do *anything*. Perhaps literally, he just sold his soul to the devil.

Now he has become evil, just like the mad king.
What do you think about that now Khan

Just watched episode 6. I am very surprised at all the stir that created. It was perfectly in line with all the characters and I would have been surprised if it had happened differently. Ramsey has been a beyond cruel monster who will take whenever he has the desire. He reduces those he views as weaker to animals and he did so here. Sansa is innocent and ill equipped for this harsh environment. She has no ability to fight against evil so she continuously has to put her trust in people who are lording over her. It never will work out well in the very cruel world of Westeros, and didn't here. I honestly think that for heart breaking and disgusting a situation this was they handled it rather gently. I wouldn't mind if GOT took that route more often.

i'll remind you guys of a few things about stannis

in season 2 when he is introduced, his wife tells him not to visit his daughter. he fights for his right to see her and this is part of our first impression of the character. a very important scene.

later he talks about how much effort he went through to save her from the grayscale. it's obvious he cares deeply for his daughter in the TV series.

Unfortunately the final scene wasn't very dramatic for me, since powdered water posted in the shout box yesterday how the episode ended.

seanc, I think the uproar was mostly about the fact that nothing like this happened to Sansa in the books.

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I said what I had to say in last two posts
Also, I was saying he was not psycho who burns everyone all the time, I said I can't predict what are they going to do with him, because he is very different than books. It was damn good scene, but I still think they pushed it, he just develops this love for his daughter out of think air. If he burned her without all that "loving" it would be a lot better, but they wanted impact so they pushed it.

I thought the scene was directed well and his love for his daughter was established in season 2.

What really caught me off guard was the sons of the harpy attacking danny in the open like that. For some reason I thought that the slaves vastly outnumbered the masters, but in that scene it looked like there were more sons of the harpy than not.

Maybe all the slaves joined forces after that public execution she did. It's difficult to explain how there were so many of them.

Also I'm not really complaining - but that was some cheesy looking CGI when you see the people running around the top of the colosseum in the background.