Circumcision...Yes, I Said Circumcision

I am actually surprised a thread hasn't been made on this topic before. OK, maybe I'm not that surprised, but what the hey? Here goes.

I did a search of MoFo on the word and turned up only like 5 or 6 posts. So I figured me being one of the guys that starts some rather weird topics, I might as well start this one.

I'm going to quote the only really relevant posts I found.

The following two quotes were replies.Now, I'm sure you're asking why in the world did I start this thread? Well, I don't remember exactly how I got on the topic with a friend, but I when I did some actual research into the differences between uncircumcised and circumcised and purpose of foreskin. In short, I was pretty pissed off. I can't believe we actually do something so barbaric as this anymore. I'm all for it if someone *wants* to do it and decides on it, but it pisses me off that a large portion of children have no say; me included.

I have attached a poll that is answerable for both genders. So chime in folks.

In case you're not well read on this topic, THIS site is pretty much the goto source for information.

The operation is purely cosmetic, IMO. There's nothing wrong with cosmetic operations, but forcing one, especially an irreversible one, on a child and giving them no choice in the matter is wrong. Discuss?

EDIT: I didn't make the poll as clear as possible. If a moderator could just remove the for it and against it from the male choices that would make it better, I would imagine.

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I recall a certain episode of Seinfeld.

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I'm surprised there's not a "Male - Against it, but got circumcised anyway" option.

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Yea, I kinda screwed up the options, sorry. Hopefully one of the mods will see this and fix it soon. If a moderator has a better way of phrasing the entire poll that's fine by me, as well.

Circumcision is an essential medical procedure. We shouldn't be having this discussion as if there is some reasonable debate.

The Old School Jews who wrote the Old Testament were pretty smart characters. They understood all of the little things that now seem difficult-- by modern ways of life-- to comprehend. They were not distracted by unnecessary facets of life back then. They understood that circumcision was a means of reducing extra skin under the glans of the penis so that it would not be a haven for germs that were contracted during intercourse and passed on to other partners. The flora and fauna of each woman's vagina are different and create different scenarios for unwanted microbiology as it moves from body to body. It's Old School common sense 101, in other words.

There is really no debate about the importance of circumcision. It is essential in reducing the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. This issue, in and of itself, has not been important enough to force in mainstream dialogue until the introduction of a truly lethal STD-- HIV-induced AIDS. It is common knowledge-- please look it up-- that circumcision reduces the occurrence and spreading of HIV because the foreskin has been removed.

There is no domestic debate either concerning the will of the parents to condone such a procedure. If they feel the need or simply wish to have the operation performed that is simply their decision. There is nothing traumatic about it to the baby. I'm circumcised and I didn't have a single day in my life where I either remembered the procedure or fretted over it.

Edited to add-- And for the ladies out there I am also quite larger than average (despite my fondness of firearms). Double bonus!!

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I kept it at a simple "For it!", "Against it!" option. Then each male member . . . what? . . . can add whatever personal details they choose.

If you would rather have those options back, and then some, one of the morning moderators can handle it for you.

I'm having way too much fun with this.

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When i first read the poll i thought you were asking the ladies whether they fancied the chop. I think you know the answer to that one...

As chance would have it tho, i was reading an A-Z book of sexual practices t'other day (left in my work toilets by an eccentric colleague with a Mr T haircut and a line in fetishes), which described a 'belly dance' which allowed such mutilated ladies to gain sexual gratification (via ecstatic dance-rubbing of tightly-wrapped muslin clothing). Thought that was cool, as most cultural justifications i'd heard for the practice were about limiting sexual pleasure, so it's nice to hear a culturally-endorsed recompense - even if it doesn't exactly make up for the peverse practice in question.

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Nonsense. It's not essential.

If we were to turn to a slightly more modern resource than the Old Testament we'd see that a lot of the claims are still relatively untested (the studies on HIV prevention etc were unfortunately stopped early, and are somewhat contradicted by the small sample of countries with higher circumcised-male-HIV levels) - but overall it's a low risk proceedure which almost certainly has no major drawbacks (all the sci-investigations into sexual satisfaction being somewhat messy too ) and can have medical benefits for some.

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~EDIT~ PS, how about a 'not bothered' option for the poll?

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Pretty sure it's not a common thing in Europe, at least not in my country. That's all I have to say...:\

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Can I ask how it's possible to reduce HIV from foreskin removal? HIV isn't a germ that lingers on your penis. It's spread via blood and sex juices, and is more likely to be transferred via anal sex.

When we prepared for the birth of our son, we had a discussion about the necessity of circumcision. Our pediatrician gave us sound advice: Have the child's penis look like dad's so when it comes time to potty train, junior doesn't wonder why his bits don't look the same as dad's. The choice was easy after that. Our son got trimmed.

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I presume you're asking females to vote on male circumcision, not asking us to vote on female circumcision?

It's not just "extra skin." It's skin that only appears in that one place of the body. It aids in intercourse, protects the glans, and numerous other benefits. Yet we chop it off just because it's been done for hundreds of years? Today, there is no medical reason to do so. Your above argument in today's society is addressable with one word; soap.

Yes, there's also a study that shows circumcised men are more likely to NOT wear a condom because of desensitization. Condoms are how you prevent disease. Not chopping off body parts.

Let's say an organization started advocating removing the clitoris from just born baby girls. Think that will go over just as well?

Yeah, I would quibble with the word "essential." As Gol points out, the tests are more than a little suspect, and as far as I can tell have largely been conducted in third-world countries, which throws a whole lot of variables into the equation which may not apply to someone like you or I.

Anyway, I've heard a lot of people's opinions on this matter, and it seems (from anecodtal evidence, at least) that an awful lot of people circumcise their children simply because, well, it's what's done. If it's common, then it's one less thing to explain to the kid. Until they find out some people aren't circumcised, at least; you're just swapping one explanation for another. Perhaps I'll feel differently when I'm a parent, but right now I don't shudder at the thought of having to explain something like this to my son.

So, I'm a male, and I'm against it. I don't see a compelling reason to cut inconvenient pieces of skin off of myself or any children I might have, and I am unmoved by the idea that I should do something simply because it's what's normally done. Just one man's opinion.

Oh, by the by, I edited the poll before I saw Destiny's response, so I assumed I was editing the original options. Let me know if you want it changed back or changed again, MattJohn.

Here here.

Just my poll selection if that is possible. I should be against it, and not for it.

Why on earth would anyone want their child to see their private bits? I've never seen my father's, at least I hope I haven't...what the...O.o....

For the record: Circumcision is not a completely irreversibel procedure.
I saw a program the other night, where they said that it was possible to grow your foreskin back by simply pulling on it or provide pressure which stretches the skin, thereby causing cell regeneration. I'm fairly sure that this is reliable information, since they had a guy show his penis, with a regrown foreskin.
If you still don't believe me: http://www.circumstitions.com/Restore.html

That being said, I am against circumcision. Even though it's a possibility to regrow it, it does not completely restore the penis to it's original condition.
Furthermore I think it should be the child's choice.

While it is possible to "restore/regrow" foreskin, it's not the same thing. As I said earlier, there is a certain type of skin that only grows in that one area. Once it's removed it's gone for good. However, the procedure you're talking about does restore sensitivity and the actual purpose of foreskin. But hey, it's like having margarine over butter.

We agree mate .

Really? My parents used to walk round starkers all the time when i was a kid.
Hmm, we need a new poll...