Government and media

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You're a Genius all the time
Gosh, let me think of an example... how many stories did we read about Heath Ledger's death before he was dead 24 hours? In that time, we thought maybe he had snorted coke (one headline read: "Rolled up $20 bill found near Ledger's body..."). That's just a small example. Many stories printed before we knew the truth.

Journalists have a Code of Ethics to follow -- their number one code is the "seek the truth and report it." In an era of trying to get the story first, being the news organization that gets it out the faster (which feeds into their success and their bottom line economically) they will report ANYTHING just to get the story out there. In the days of an evening and morning paper, there wasn't the urgency. Stories were checked out. They were doublechecked. That is relatively gone. Media people will tell you it's gone.
So you're saying that in the pre-internet world, journalists never jumped the gun and printed a big story before they knew all the facts? And don't you think that having different means of news reportage providing competition for one another is a good thing? I agree that they don't always have the publics' best interest in mind, but it's still better than having one monopolistic news factory.

Originally Posted by tramp
Don't get me wrong. We're in a era of blogging, too, and quite often, we get information the mainstream media doesn't report. We often find things out that contributes greatly to the truth being spread.
You bet. But often that stuff, like the mainstream news, is unreliable and biased. Once again, it all comes down to the individual deciding for themselves who to trust and what to believe.

Originally Posted by tramp
My point is this: we are still navigating through this new era of the media. And there is no denying that the more information thats out there, it can often lead to confusion, sometimes on purpose. This is where those that know how to control the media can play their game. They can put so much crap out there to hide a truth and they will often do that for their own purposes. That is where the relationship of government and media can be very dangerous.
But see, it's a two way street. I understand what you mean when you say the government can, to an extent, control public perception by burying stories through the over saturation of news markets. I get that. But, in the same vein, the more sources of news there are, the more difficult it would become for a government to contain. How can you say the government has an easier job of it controlling the media in 2008 when the media is more vast and far-reaching than ever? Isn't it harder to control the media today, now that there are so many sources of information out there? Doesn't that make sense?

Originally Posted by tramp
A democracy only survives with an independent media. When the two are connected, we are no longer in a democracy. The government that controls the media is no longer a democratic government. It then begins to resemble a dictatorship.
Well then I guess it's a good thing our government has very little control over today's media, huh?

Originally Posted by tramp
I have to go to bed... sorry I contributed so much in this thread. But this very subject is something I feel very strongly about.
Don't apologize. I mean, I feel very strongly about this very subject, too.



You're a Genius all the time
I don't know, Swedy, but sometimes people don't have an open or formed mind and believe the first thing they hear about something, especially if it's supported by their friends and family.
I don't think you're giving people enough credit on this one, Marko. There are plenty of folks out there with open minds who are willing to hear others out and develop informed opinions about stuff.

Originally Posted by mark
I'm too busy to find specific examples, but everything seems to be in a revisionist mode at this time: politics, religion, science, or even important crap, like movies and music!
Did you hear that Blade Runner was just voted the single greatest piece of art in the history of the known universe?



The media, largely, is only reflecting a distinct dissatisfaction with the general public regarding their representatives. As I recall, when neo-conservatism was in full swing, in about 01-05, I didn't hear the media criticizing or questioning anything, that is until it was in retrospect. CNN is a prime example, they change their coverage depending on the political trend. Now that the Neocon ideals aren't as accepted they now flow the other direction, and I am fairly certain that if Obama were to win, by the beginning of his second term they would switch again. Fox News and MSNBC are cartoonish parodies of one another, and CNN is that kid who agrees with what his friends say, until it is proven wrong later.
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...uh the post is up there...



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
Sure, Swedes, there are plenty of them, but just looking at our wonderful forums, you can tell that some might not develop informed opinions (especially my students.)

Now, you want to get me started on BladeRunner again? No thanks. It's OK, but....blah, blah, blah, gibber, blah, ish.
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.:*why So serious*:.
This is brillint Keep It coming, So what do you Think Of Actual governmental portrayal Do you think it is Changing/ Has already changed and is it positive or negative?
DO my Examples make sense at all, Are they justifiable as a point?



You're a Genius all the time
This is brillint Keep It coming, So what do you Think Of Actual governmental portrayal Do you think it is Changing/ Has already changed and is it positive or negative?
DO my Examples make sense at all, Are they justifiable as a point?
Well, yeah, I guess. If you look at any large-scale disaster type movie (like your two examples), the government is most commonly portrayed as being either incredibly incompetent or incredibly insidious. Except the president. Usually he's pretty cool.



Well, yeah, I guess. If you look at any large-scale disaster type movie (like your two examples), the government is most commonly portrayed as being either incredibly incompetent or incredibly insidious. Except the president. Usually he's pretty cool.


Great point, like in XXX: state of the union, where the President was actually trying to be a humanitarian and the ultra-conservative villain plotted to over-throw him. It seems most movie Presidents are least like most real ones, they are usually not political spinners, but well-meaning idealists.



I am burdened with glorious purpose
Swedish Chef: I have no idea why you have decided that the media is so perfect today because of the internet.

Here's Walter Cronkite's take on it:

As you know, I've been increasingly and publicly critical of the direction that journalism has taken of late, and of the impact on democratic discourse and principles. Like you, I'm deeply concerned about the merger mania that has swept our industry, diluting standards, dumbing down the news, and making the bottom line sometimes seem like the only line. It isn't and it shouldn't be.
Or Carl Bernstein:

The lowest form of popular culture -- lack of information, misinformation, disinformation, and a contempt for the truth or the reality of most people's lives -- has overrun real journalism. Today, ordinary Americans are being stuffed with garbage.

The greatest felony in the news business today is to be behind, or to miss a big story. So speed and quantity substitute for thoroughness and quality, for accuracy and context.

The failures of the press have contributed immensely to the emergence of a talk-show nation, in which public discourse is reduced to ranting and raving and posturing.
The 90s saw the rise of the "talking heads." Truth is lost. And how about FOX News? We have an actual tool of propaganda mascarading as a "news" station.

And how about this for how powerful the media can be in actually telling the public lies:

In 2003, University of Maryland researchers studied the public’s belief in three false claims — that Iraq possessed WMD, that Iraq was involved in 9/11, and that there was international support for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

The researchers stated, “The extent of Americans’ misperceptions vary significantly depending on their source of news. Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely than average to have misperceptions.” Fox News viewers were “three times more likely than the next nearest network to hold all three misperceptions.”
(I haven't found the source link -- just a reporting of the source information -- and I'm short on time tonight.)

But I want to make the point here that I do not understand why you seem to think everything is rosy. It isn't. Just because there is all this information out there doesn't equate that the public is actually informed. And who has the time to look all around for the truth? People are busy. Those FOX viewers thought they were getting the news! They often were getting what the government and FOX was feeding them. Misconceptions.

And the government does have control over our media today. That's the point I'm trying to make. The combination of the mega media moguls along with government agenda has made a new world media that is quite a mess.



You're a Genius all the time
Swedish Chef: I have no idea why you have decided that the media is so perfect today because of the internet.
I don't think the media is perfect and i didn't say that. I just don't think we're on this horrible downward spiral that you seem to believe we are. And I do happen to think we're in better shape on that front than ever before. The mass trafficking of information on the internet is, in my opinion, a good thing. The amount of news, information, opinions and whatnot that we have at our fingertips is very exciting. We shouldn't be scared of it, we should embrace it and contribute to it.

Originally Posted by tramp
The 90s saw the rise of the "talking heads." Truth is lost. And how about FOX News? We have an actual tool of propaganda mascarading as a "news" station.

But I want to make the point here that I do not understand why you seem to think everything is rosy. It isn't. Just because there is all this information out there doesn't equate that the public is actually informed. And who has the time to look all around for the truth? People are busy. Those FOX viewers thought they were getting the news! They often were getting what the government and FOX was feeding them. Misconceptions.
I'm not defending FOX News here. I hate FOX News. But, like filmfreak said, for every FOX News, there's an MSNBC. MSNBC is just as guilty as FOX News of the same crimes and slants. So, isn't it all right to be blatantly biased and one-sided as long as both sides get their say? They Report, We Decide.

Check out this article. It's a summary of a study conducted by Pew last year that basically concluded people are just as informed today as they were before the internet and 24 hour news cycles. If anything, people are more informed about current affairs today.

Originally Posted by tramp
And the government does have control over our media today. That's the point I'm trying to make. The combination of the mega media moguls along with government agenda has made a new world media that is quite a mess.
And I think you're overstating matters and blowing things out of proportion. Look, do you really think we're but a stone's throw away from living in an Orwellian dictatorship? Because we're not.



You're a Genius all the time
Okay!

For anyone else who's interested, I strongly recommend you read James Gleick's Faster: The Acceleration of Just About Everything. Gleick's the godfather of the chaos theory and, for all intents and purposes, he's pretty much a genius. His book is the framework for a widespread theory among modern journalists that since society is moving at such a faster pace these days, the need for quicker and more far-reaching means of exchanging information increases. The public is able to absorb more and more information and the demand for this information is far greater than it ever was.

Originally Posted by Mickey Kaus from Slate Magazine during the 2000 Presidential Primaries

My friend Bruce Feiler had a thought that he said I could steal. It's this:

Everybody says competition, plus the Internet, has speeded up the news cycle. You used to watch the evening news once a day, or watch Meet the Press once a week. Now you look at Salon and complain that they've had the same article up for an hour and a half. In this environment, charges and countercharges fly faster. The conventional wisdom forms, and contrarian pundits react against it, and counter-contrarians weigh in, etc., all in a day, instead of over the course of a fortnight. Call this speeding up of the news cycle Trend 1.

People have also noted that the primary schedule is front-loaded and very compressed this year, with more than a dozen important primaries crammed into the month and a half between the Iowa caucuses and the big delegate payday on March 7. Call this campaign compression Trend 2. Generally, it has been a cause for lament--by underdog, low-budget candidates worrying they won't have time to get their messages out, or (lately) by establishment candidates worried they might be victims of an impetuous crush briefly entertained by the electorate but later regretted. Once a candidate gets momentum, the argument goes, he or she can't be stopped until it's too late.

Feiler's point is that we should put these two trends together--and that when we do, Trend 1 considerably softens the impact of Trend 2. We have a speeded up primary calendar, but we have a speeded up news cycle to match it--a news cycle that lets voters get the information they need to make their decisions in time to avoid the superficial rush to judgment that critics of the compressed primary schedule fear.

In particular, the concept underlying the rush-to-judgment fear--the old idea of "momentum"--obviously needs to be reassessed. After New Hampshire, commentators wondered how McCain's momentum could be stopped. (After all, he was on the cover of all the newsweeklies. Remember what that did for Gary Hart!) Well, McCain got a New Hampshire bounce, but it didn't last nearly long enough. He was beaten, rather decisively, two weeks later in South Carolina.

Then Bush had the momentum, which would surely sweep him to victory in Michigan's primary just three days later! Wrong again. Bush's Big Mo (and the impact of McCain's bitter, Nixonian concession) lasted about 24 hours, which was about 36 short of what Bush needed. In part that's because the speeded-up news cycle let McCain counter Bush's momentum (by using Bush's Bob Jones University appearance to rile Catholics) with record speed.

In short, political trends that used to last for weeks now last for hours. It's like watching the 1984 campaign on fast forward, except that the calendar still drags on into early June, meaning there's room for plot twists we could only dream of in 1984. To be commensurate with the speeded-up news cycle, the calendar would probably have to be compressed even more. Maybe we could have had the whole thing wrapped up by St. Patrick's Day!

Of course, voters may not entirely be keeping pace with Trends 1 and 2. Are they really as well-informed and conscientious as before--swooning, having second thoughts, rebelling, coming "back home," and so forth, just as they used to, only more rapidly? Can you keep dividing time into smaller and smaller bits without bumping up against the limitations of the human brain?

I would read James Gleick's book Faster and come up with some conclusions on that question. But I've got to get this up on the Web quickly before somebody beats me.
The internet is a good thing.



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
I used to think it was a horrible thing, but for a well-informed, rational being, it does allow you to access as many differing opinions as possible in the shortest span of time. You just have to know where to look, who to trust and use common sense. This has nothing to do with politics though. You have to examine every side of any question you care about. You cannot blindly accept one side as being "the truth". And I understand that's part of the problem which many have with accepting any "Book of faith concerning the desert" (Are Confucianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., all concerned with deserts too") I do believe that people can learn the truth, whether it's from ancient text, modern technology, science, religion, poliitics, movies ("All of life's riddles are answered in the movies."- Grand Canyon), but I also believe they can become brainwashed and pay no attention to anything even slightly involving reality, just because all these conspiracy theories and misinformation/partial information are pushed by people with an agenda.

Let me be clear here. I have an agenda too. My agenda is truth. Opinions are all well and good, but one of the most difficult things to teach a "student" is the difference between "fact" and "opinion", and if anybody else tells me there's no way to tell the objective difference, I will call them either brainwashed or part of the "new, bad" way people believe it's OK to see things.



I am burdened with glorious purpose
Let me be clear here. I have an agenda too. My agenda is truth. Opinions are all well and good, but one of the most difficult things to teach a "student" is the difference between "fact" and "opinion", and if anybody else tells me there's no way to tell the objective difference, I will call them either brainwashed or part of the "new, bad" way people believe it's OK to see things.
Thank you! I agreed with your entire post, but wanted to highlight this because this is what bothers me about what's going on right now.

And if you look at my post above and Swedish Chef's response, he and I were talking about two different ideas. My concern with the media today is based more on 24-hour news, radio, and opinion being disguised as "fact," and he was talking more about the Internet. The quotes I picked out were more about not seeking the truth anymore. My point was that just because the Internet exists, that doesn't negate that truth is being lost. Not following the very first code of ethics -- seeking truth -- is the problem facing journalism today.

I think the internet is a wonderful thing! I love it, my students' homework every week is to do a search and find an answer, or search for an answer on a specific website. The information age is a wonderful thing, but that doesn't mean our present media isn't full of very real problems and some of it wrapped up in a lot of government interference and economic bottom line. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that the government finds the Internet a frustrating place -- they can't really control it like they can the other forms of media.

(I must say the comment about Bernstein was completely unnecessary...)

BTW, there's a great line by Al Pacino in The Insider where he plays a 60 Minutes producer and he yells (as he always yells, lol):

"Are we newsmen or are we businessmen?!!!"



I do not buy into the Obama Muslim faith thing, or the Flag pin, or church thing, etc... I was curious sure, so I looked around and find them hogwash at least for what I consider when I look at the candidates.

The same thus far goes for a lot of what is being said about Palin.

examples of hogwash:

http://www.movieforums.com/community...ad.php?t=17109

Yes, she came with a fair amount of baggage didn't she? Police investigation probe into allegations of attempts to use her political leverage to have her brother fired, pregnant teenage daughter, lobbying for earmark favors with a corrupt senator. etc etc.
Didn't take long for you to jump on that without really caring to see how much is true and if some of it even matters, pregnant teenage daughter indeed.

I had a pregnant teenage daughter and just how in the Hell does this matter? It did not cause any issues with my carreer life other than I had to work that much harder at first.

The Polls - give me a break when Obama is leading by the slightest it is a "no way McCain is overcoming this" mentality from many on here and around the world. McCain leads and the crickets chirp from the same people. The polls really do not mean much at this point.

I guess what I am saying is that I look at both candidates fairly and it seems that it is alright and acceptable for the media to say what they will against Bush or McCain, and now Palin be it true or not, but when things that are untrue about Obama are said the holy fire and brimstone comes crashing down. Instead of jumping on a story that smears the politicians you are against you might want to make sure it is true, or does the truth matter anymore?
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I did not notice till now that this was posted under general movie discussion. I only read the previous few posts. Sorry I guess my response is better suited for another area.



I think given the context of the discussion at this point, your post has relevance in this thread 7th if only in that your post in some way makes mark f's exact point. (Though I admit I would hate for it to devolve solely into another 2008 election coverage discussion ).

[Intermission]
Following your logic, let me say that I cant stand Palin, but I dont think she's the Devil. In fact, I think once the (media) feeding frenzy is over, no one else really does either. My level of respect for someone who can admit the same about Obama while disagreeing with him is ratcheted up quite a few notches.

No. What is being played upon at this point is basic emotion - because it sells. And it works on even the most erudite. Because I have to admit, while I could care less about what happens in the Palin household, and while I have nothing but the utmost sympathy for parents whose teenage daughter comes home knocked up: there is something visceral about my reaction to Palin's knocked up kid - and it has nothing to do with Palin herself.

It has everything to do with a ingrained sense of outrage over the idea of republican selective forgiveness: that when John Edwards (lets just insert "Democrat" here), bangs a chick who isnt his wife (read: adulterer), he's the Democratic Demon Child - but when Palin's kid turns up knocked up (read: fornicator - potential abortion candidate (that part being speculative at this point seeing as how mommy/daddy probably nixed that option after the public became aware)), we should approach her family with love and understanding, and......gasp...forgiveness!

Yes. I feel betrayed. I feel betrayed that the self-portrayed "Moral Party" are the same people who would rip into Jamie Lynn Spears for daring to write a "How to Mother" book, and tear her to pieces over coffee, deem her an unfit mother - or if anything, definitely unfit to lead/teach other mothers - all because of having a knocked up teenager ---- and these same people are suddenly placing Palin on a pedastal of suffering parenthood, and asking for a tender approach to her home and her feelings?

Give me a break, honey. (And I do mean honey.) She gave up privacy from media intrustion and judgment when she took the center stage. I am constantly baffled by the candidates' tiptoe approach to her - as if she might crack and break if we get "too personal." THIS is going to be our VP? Someone whose tender lady feelings we're even afraid to hurt?

I would have rathered Hillary Clinton, and I seriously disliked her, but at least I did not think she was a scared little puppy. Gloves are off, sweetie. Welcome to the Big Leagues.
[/Intermission]

Somewhere in all my above angry political drivel, I think there was supposed to be a tie-in to the "government and media," but I think I may have lost focus, and even crossed my very own prohibition in my first parenthetical. If I did, please feel free to ignore me and move on, or move my post to a proper thread!
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