Lets Talk Football

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-22-10

It was bizarre, wasn't it?

a) There's bad blood between them
b) He felt the SA players contributed to the French sending off
c) He's an utter mental

No prizes as to which I'm going for.

I (and the world outside the French FA) am amazed he's been in that job for so long. Ok, the side got to the final of the last WC but most people seem to think that was despite Domenech not because of him and the senior players like Zidane, Thuram and Vieira were running things behind the scenes. They were awful at Euro 2008 and yet he got a contract extension.

I guess he was appointed in the first place because he'd been the long-standing U21 manager who'd presided over the flowering of the generation who won in 1998 and 2000 but I can't think of too many cases where a successful U21 or youth coach has made the step up to senior level successfully. Even sane ones.

Bringing the best out of a group of hungry young players is a bit different to managing the egos once they've become successful experienced pros.

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christine

Dreams is freedom

06-22-10

You see this Tac?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...10/8754874.stm

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

Excellent spot!

Even though 'a' was correct, then, I'm still gonna go with 'c'.

I'm still disappointed we didn't see Tshabalala take the field with Toulalan. It would have sounded like the great lost Flying Pickets record....

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

Whatever the reason, he looked like a man-sized stroppy child. (I assumed at the time he was suggesting the ref had been bribed or something).

Ach well, I imagine Fabio can summon up a good foot stomp too if things don't fare well at 3

. Here's some handy permutations from the Beeb...

ENGLAND BEAT SLOVENIA, USA DRAW OR LOSE AGAINST ALGERIA

The dour performance against Algeria is forgotten and a nation rejoices (or something like that) as England keep their World Cup hopes alive. England would qualify as Group C winners with five points and secure a meeting with the runners-up from Group D (possibly Germany). If USA draw, Slovenia advance as runners-up. If USA lose, goal difference would determine whether Slovenia (currently +1) or Algeria (-1) go through in second place.

ENGLAND BEAT SLOVENIA, USA BEAT ALGERIA

Fabio Capello can breathe easily in this instance too as England book their place in the last 16. England and USA would finish level on five points and goal difference would determine who progresses as Group C winners. If goal difference remains level, as is the case at the moment, goals scored (currently England 1, USA 3) would decide who finishes top.

ENGLAND DRAW, USA DRAW

In this scenario, England need a high scoring draw on Wednesday. Slovenia would go through as group winners, with England and USA finishing level on three points. Goals scored would decide who progresses. There is the possibility for drama even greater than that of a penalty shoot-out - if both sides are totally even then lots will be drawn to decide who goes through and who is out.

ENGLAND DRAW, USA WIN OR LOSE

England head for the departures gate and will probably not take much solace from the fact that they will be unbeaten and be home in time to watch the tennis at Wimbledon. Should USA win then they would finish level with Slovenia on five points and progress, should Bob Bradley's men lose then Algeria, with four points, would take the runners-up spot.

ENGLAND LOSE

Doomsday. England are eliminated and finish the group with two points. The post-mortem begins.

I'm fairly certain we're going to make it. Just not sure what I'm basing that feeling on. (Classification form perhaps?

)

If all else fails I say we hoist Crouch up, rugby style, to give him even more height. Possibly swing him round a bit to clear some space? (There's nothing in the rules against it is there?)

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Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

Using Crouch as some sort of lance? They could play a front three with Rooney mounted on Heskey's back and Crouch hoisted under his arm, I suppose.

If all else fails, there must still be some players in the world who are encountering this strange 20ft tall pipecleaner man who can't head for the first time and will just stand and gawp. That's got him at least 10 goals at international level, I'm sure of it.

He seems a lovely bloke, by the way, and I don't say that often about English footballers. He's also got a fabulous (if slightly trashy, but I mean that in the nicest possible way) girlfriend, free from the self concious nonsense of most of the WAGs. I've always liked Scouse girls.

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

He does seem to be a genuinely lovely chap (occasional hair-pulling goals aside

). He is whoring himself mercilessly at the moment in every tawdry advert and compilation show going tho. And even as a spurs fan, I'd rather see Carlton Cole or someone of more all-round talent and bullish presence in the squad.

Quite liked the '4-3-3' Lineker was suggesting last night on MotD. Expected back 4, with Barry and Milner holding, Fat Frank ahead of them, then Rooney flanked by Gerrard and Cole. Not ideal maybe, but both full backs can bomb on.

---

EDIT: Ug, BBC poster just pointed out that Slovenia only need a draw. Hadn't thought of that. Doubt they're gonna be that 'progressive'. Hope JD has a better game than his recent norm. Taylor seems to think the selection means a 4-3-2-1, but not sure what arrangement he's thinking there (JD and Gerrard supporting Rooney upfront?). Looks possible 4-4-2 to me :S

England: 1-David James; 2-Glen Johnson, 15-Matthew Upson, 6-John Terry, 3-Ashley Cole; 16-James Milner, 4-Steven Gerrard, 8-Frank Lampard, 14-Gareth Barry; 19-Jermain Defoe, 10-Wayne Rooney.

Last edited by Golgot; 06-23-10 at 10:16 AM.

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

Aye, that Pringles advert is a bit cringeworthy innit? I just think that his fellow players are a bit too thick to play to his strengths - they see 6' 7" and lump the ball up to him as if he's Jan Koller when he's much more comfortable with the ball at his feet.

A fine club player who has a great record against lesser nations and not the bigger ones? I've got no stats in front of me but I wonder how many times he's actually been trusted to start against top sides?

The BBC seem to think it'll be Gerrard behind Defoe and Rooney with a narrowish three behind them. That'll put an awful lot of pressure on Cashley (I've heard no reports of scared chambermaids in the team hotel so Fabio must be putting bromide in his Red Bull) and Johnson to provide the width.

Of course, one gets the feeling he's not starting J Cole purely because everyone has told him he must, and I like that in a manager for no other reason than that he's supremely contrary.

EDIT - Confirmed to be a diamond formation.

christine

Dreams is freedom

06-23-10

Originally Posted by Tacitus

He seems a lovely bloke, by the way, and I don't say that often about English footballers. He's also got a fabulous (if slightly trashy, but I mean that in the nicest possible way) girlfriend, free from the self concious nonsense of most of the WAGs. I've always liked Scouse girls.

scouse girls are very lovable ...

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

Originally Posted by Tacitus

The BBC seem to think it'll be Gerrard behind Defoe and Rooney with a narrowish three behind them. That'll put an awful lot of pressure on Cashley (I've heard no reports of scared chambermaids in the team hotel so Fabio must be putting bromide in his Red Bull) and Johnson to provide the width.

Of course, one gets the feeling he's not starting J Cole purely because everyone has told him he must, and I like that in a manager for no other reason than that he's supremely contrary.

EDIT - Confirmed to be a diamond formation.

Oo, confirmed where? Makes a certain sense, but like you say, pressure on the full backs. Altho Slovenia aren't gonna be charging on in numbers. I guess Barry/Milner will be sharing 'sweeping' duties.

On J Cole the talk seems to be of knee issue.

On Cashley, let's hope he's sexed up for his role and the bromide's worn off for match time

(PS who else loved Maradona's edict on pre-match sex - fine so long as the girl's do all the work

)

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

The Beeb are now wavering over whether it's confirmed or not because of Woy's talk of 4-4-2.

We'll find out in a few seconds.

EDIT - 4-4-2 it is and England look as nervy and uncoordinated as they have all tournament.

Last edited by Tacitus; 06-23-10 at 11:12 AM.

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

Ach, we got, if not triangles, then at least 'fluid lines' of link-up play

A cure for constipation as Lawro said tho, no doubt - and we got away with a lot of tackles/slip-ups.

Nice of the US to add some extra drama at the end there

(Tonight's clashes will make interesting viewing

)

christine

Dreams is freedom

06-23-10

yeah tonight will be interesting...

really happy about todays match

and well done to USA too!

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

I think the number of chances, solidness of last-ditch tackles, and that moment where Rooney very very nearly did his talisman thing all deserves a happy red Capello...

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

A vast improvement but I dunno what match the BBC were watching. England were good for 20 minutes in the first half, approaching very good, and could/should have been 3-0 up.

After that, and especially after Rooney went off they were poor again - Barry was on another planet and Lampard anonymous yet again. That's not a partnership to have against a decent side.

The pace was much improved all match and, the one thing the BBC pundits spoke sense about, the removal of Heskey made the side have to play more precise football along the deck. Milner was very good and just shows that pace is not always the answer in a wide man - Now that he's fit I'd still prefer him in the centre to Lampard but then they lose the outlet down the right. Now that a lot of the pressure has been lifted it'll be very interesting to see how they shape up in the next round.

As to Lawro: I dunno how many of his co-commentators have punched him square in the face but that's always my reaction when I hear his snotty little asides. I think I'd rather have the stultifying banality of Townsend and Beglin on ITV.

Best co-commentator this year for me has been Big Mick McCarthy, the walking embodiment of the Monty Python Yorkshiremen sketch. His high octane dourness is just superb.

Golgot

there's a frog in my snake oil

06-23-10

Originally Posted by Tacitus

Yeah, still very sloppy there, especially the 'holding' guys. Johnson did some of his traditional hot-headed foible-fests too - but good going forwards during the first half.

Originally Posted by Tatty

The pace was much improved all match and, the one thing the BBC pundits spoke sense about, the removal of Heskey made the side have to play more precise football along the deck. Milner was very good and just shows that pace is not always the answer in a wide man - Now that he's fit I'd still prefer him in the centre to Lampard but then they lose the outlet down the right. Now that a lot of the pressure has been lifted it'll be very interesting to see how they shape up in the next round.

Yeah Milner was top notch, lovely touch, interplay and crossing at times. The Lampard/Gerrard conundrum seems to continue. Franky boy had an off day (nice run early on tho) - Stevie G was more effective down the left today but still not ideal. Ash was consistently good again tho - loads of overlap potential.

Originally Posted by Tatty

That's going a bit faar! (But we have all been provoked unreasonably by 'the tash' and his turgidness, you're right

)

Originally Posted by Tatty

Best co-commentator this year for me has been Big Mick McCarthy, the walking embodiment of the Monty Python Yorkshiremen sketch. His high octane dourness is just superb.

A more beautiful description for the Sauron of straight-talking could not be found

(I was slightly surprised when he admired some flair play the other day - but then again, so was he i think

)

---

Saw the US highlights just now and they thoroughly deserved to go through. The only game they didn't deserve to get much out of was the US-England game

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

Originally Posted by Golgot

A more beautiful description for the Sauron of straight-talking could not be found

(I was slightly surprised when he admired some flair play the other day - but then again, so was he i think

)

Yeah, I remember that too!

It's usually a trip into the mind of a cynical, hard-bitten manager of relegation-threatened teams who's experience of managing an international side will forever be remembered for Roy Keane shoving an unnamed object up Big Mick's bollocks.

I thought Johnson was an improvement today, actually. More disciplined, anyway, but doesn't he look kinda ... well, fat? Maybe he's got Gary Neville stuffed down his shirt for moral support in that 'defending' bit he usually finds so hard in his role as a defender.

One thing I did notice about Gerrard was that he lost his discipline as soon as Rooney was withdrawn and began meandering inside again. It was probably a combination of looking for someone to pass too and the fact that Barry and Lampard seemed to totally lose the run of themselves around the same time and Stevie Hollywood felt compelled to try and sort it out.

I'm not gonna rag on too hard though because you English deserve a much needed few days of relaxed hope.

I'm kind of in the Danny Baker camp in that I like seeing the traditional footballing powers being strong. Upstarts are good for a laugh but decent English, German, Italian, Brazilian etc sides are what tournaments are supposed to be about. Unless Norn Iron are playing, of course, but that's a hope as vain as a big vain thing. In a cravat.

n3wt

\m/ Fade To Black \m/

06-23-10

England have gotten through to the next round, great now we will just be hearing how great they are all over the media, fantastic

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christine

Dreams is freedom

06-23-10

Originally Posted by n3wt

England have gotten through to the next round, great now we will just be hearing how great they are all over the media, fantastic

bring it on

...at least for a few days

Tacitus

The People's Republic of Clogher

06-23-10

Just as an aside, Capello's pitchside interview with Gabby Logan just after the match was priceless, with The Don in full Braveheart mode.

Gabby: The team played with the shackles off

Fabio: Wha?

Gabby: Err, they were more relaxed

Fabio: FREEDOM!!!

Brodinski