American History X = Most powerful movie ever?

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Is American History X the most powerful movie ever?
18.33%
11 votes
Yes
81.67%
49 votes
No
60 votes. You may not vote on this poll




Heh, when I saw this thread title in shortened form on the main page I thought it was going to read 'American History X= Most Overrated Movie Ever?' and I came in here to post that, yeah, it just might be.

Uninsightful, contrived and hamfisted as it is, I didn't find it remotely powerful. Worthwhile message, and it is a good thing that an antiracism movie has reached so many people, and Norton is as good as the film allows him to be, but it's just not a special film. It isn't in the same league as Do The Right Thing, and I certainly wouldn't count it as a contender for the most powerful movie even in its genre.

Off the top of my head, some of the most powerful movies I have ever seen are Ordet, Grave of the Fireflies, Dead Man Walking, Nil by Mouth and When The Wind Blows.




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I don't understand why there is so much American History X hate out there. There are a lot of people that like it in the world, but there may be the same amount that hate it.



In my experience most people love it, and I've never known anyone say it was actually a bad film, but it's hard to apply a 'most powerful movie ever' tag to anything. I think 2/15 is pretty good considering how many 'powerful' films there are.



A system of cells interlinked
Originally Posted by BobbyB
I don't understand why there is so much American History X hate out there. There are a lot of people that like it in the world, but there may be the same amount that hate it.
Again, no hate here. I think it's a good film, and has some powerful scenes in it. But not THE most powerful film, by any stretch, IMO.
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Originally Posted by Sedai
Again, no hate here. I think it's a good film, and has some powerful scenes in it. But not THE most powerful film, by any stretch, IMO.
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the people who said the film was bad



Originally Posted by Sedai
Again, no hate here. I think it's a good film, and has some powerful scenes in it. But not THE most powerful film, by any stretch, IMO.
I agree with you here . Although I don't think American History X is the most powerful film, I think it is atleast one of the most powerful films. But I can think of more powerful films than AHX.
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DEFINE the GREAT LINE
What about other powerfull movies besides this one? Malcolm X was powerful movie, yet we talk nothing 'bout that title. Not to glorify or compete, but I doubt American History X (having a powerful meaning behind it) is the most powerful movie ever. I believe it was more a shock valued movie. It revealed the racial tentions in society under a microscope. Thats it.



Must watch it so at least i can have an opinion
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I think this is all about context really, ie where you first see the movie, with whom and who you are.

Lemme give you an example - When I saw Schindler's List in the cinema I left feeling like I'd been punched in the stomach. Hard.

Judging it on subsequent viewings I'm not a huge fan of the film but on that particular day the cinema (it was a matinee performance) was filled with senior citizens, some old fellas were proudly wearing their War medals, and the atmosphere could only be described as heavy. It's probably a testament to the power of suggestion, combined with the weary sighs and quiet sobs I heard from the audience, but I've never been to a movie with anywhere near that kind of power on it's viewers...

As to American History X, it's ok. Nothing more, nothing less from where I sit.
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Was going to post something rather insolent here last night but a lucky power outage stopped me.

Yeah context is muy important, and I would add that when I think of what I would term "powerful" films, I think of movies that have a detectable impact on a society, things like Triumph of the Will, Birth of a Nation, maybe something by Capra. In a lot of these movies the power is hard to detect for us though, because it's so far removed from our society, or we only see it indirectly through it's influence on other movies.

As to AHX specifically, I find it as powerful as a cold, wet noodle. My problem with this movie stems from the fact that it's so blatantly trying to be topical and real and important but on a basic, unacknowledged, cinematic level it's a vehicle for some personalities to strut about, and this fact interferes with that motive. If you look, you'll notice some of the story choices they made that really bear this point out.

-main tension of the film's issues is boiled down to a simple battle between a patently evil "racist devil" and and the pure-as-snow black educator for the souls of young people.
-unwavering focus on Ed Norton's personal journey
-Ed meets a nice, funny black and some mean racists in prison, changes his mind.

I think we have a dillemma here, where the fastest, bestest way for movies to engage us emotionally is to give us compelling characters or stereotypes in harsh, unambiguous situations, but these very things inherently detract from our ability to see things that required a more nuanced imagination. This is why movies are generally bad at telling things like history or sociology; they reduce the world to key actors and unambiguous motives.

A really powerful movie about a topic like race gangs has to reach deeper than this morally didactic thing, which boils down the issue to "racism is too much baggage, man." If it was as simple as getting everyone to meet nice blacks, so they could see that not all blacks are lazy drug-dealing criminals, well, gee, couldn't we have gotten rid of that "baggage" a long time ago? Instead, this movie basically feeds us the standard devices of a gangster-action movie (the points I mentioned above could just as well describe 'Unleashed') except less blatantly stylized, as if to say "this is a serious movie." The problem is that, while this gangster mold might be a good way to tell a compelling story about over-the-top characters, it detracts from what's really compelling about this idea of a widespread culture, by reducing it to the individual, personal level. This sort of gang youth subculture isn't really frightening at the individual level, only as a societal phenomenon, and choosing to focus on one racist character, and how after meeting some nice blacks he decides not to be a skinhead anymore completely ignores this.

In fairness, I must admit that good movies about youth gangs and race violence are very difficult to find. A few years ago, we selected this theme for our school's annual Political Science Dept. Film Festival. We considered this movie against all the reasons I mentioned above, but ultimately it was turned down for a much simpler reason; the deciding vote not to show AHX was cast by someone who had just gotten back from several years of post-doctoral research squatting with Flemish skins in Antwerp: he simply found the portrayal of skins (playing b-ball with rival ethnic gangs) too implausible and friendly. We wound up showing Romper Stomper instead. It's not perfect, but I would easilly recomend it instead of AHX. We also showed Alamo Bay and My Son the Fanatic, which are both even better movies, but only tangentially related to the subject of AHX.

Guess this post wound up being kind of insolent anyway. Sorry, didn't want to trash anyone's favorite movie or anything, but this movie is obnoxiously mediocre.



chicagofrog's Avatar
history *is* moralizing
i wouldn't say "most powerful", sounds exaggerated, but it's a helluva good movie, to me.
much better than the too obviously dichotomic Schindler's List. the good thing is it doesn't take side, and shows that violence is on both sides, and stupid on both sides too.
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If by "powerful" you mean provoking gut-wrenching laughter, then yes. American History X is a cartoon of a propagandist drama, and likely to fuel Neo Nazi sentiment rather than provide a thought-provoking rebuke. A shame, really. The film's heart is definitely in the right place.



****in' A, man. I got a rash, man
I don't think American History X is a great movie by any stretch but I would prefer to watch it over Do The Right Thing. I believe Spike Lee and his movies are highly overrated. The guy just doesn't sit right with me, he's pig headed and racist imo
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Originally Posted by Dazed&Confused
I don't think American History X is a great movie by any stretch but I would prefer to watch it over Do The Right Thing. I believe Spike Lee and his movies are highly overrated. The guy just doesn't sit right with me, he's pig headed and racist imo
I think Do the Right Thing is a very evenhanded movie, actually. What happens in the film happens because of the sheer frustration of the character and, in Lee's case, the writer. It's the boiling point. I think it was certainly a brave choice to have the main character NOT be a conduit of peace.



American History X is one of the most overrated films in history. This film was beyond bland. Do The Right Thing is much, much better.



The Fabulous Sausage Man
I've not seen it but everyone else keeps telling me it's great, without backing up their reasons. So I assume it's full of Crash-style preachiness and contrivances then?



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Originally Posted by Nexus
I've not seen it but everyone else keeps telling me it's great, without backing up their reasons. So I assume it's full of Crash-style preachiness and contrivances then?
No.

It's not at all like Crash.

American History X is frightening in it's portrayl of violence and racism.



The Fabulous Sausage Man
Originally Posted by BobbyB
No.

It's not at all like Crash.

American History X is frightening in it's portrayl of violence and racism.
Yay!



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Originally Posted by Sinny McGuffins
I'd say that Do The Right Thing is a lot more powerful than American History X. I can't really argue with you (in a friendly way) about it though, until you've seen it. Watch it, and if you don't think it's more powerful than American History X, I'll make you change your mind.

But I will tell you why Do The Right Thing is a powerful movie. It's powerful in the way it gets its message across. Just like American History X, it deals with racism - but in a much more real and honest way, in my opinion. Its power comes during its climax, which is built up throughout the film. After the credits start rolling, you should be left in amazement at how unbelievably powerful this film is. And in case you didn't know, it's a Spike Lee joint, one of his early, angry ones.
Change my mind. I saw the movie, hated it, and wasn't moved in the least.



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I never could get the hang of Thursdays.
I liked American History X, but do think it is often overrated.

My choice for most powerful movie ever would be one of Lars Von Trier's films. Dancer in the Dark is the most upsetting, but Breaking the Waves is his best. Not as fast-paced as American History X, but quietly devastating. Staying with the racism theme, Manderlay rivals American History X in uncomfortable viewing, if not quite in violence.