The Dark Knight Rises

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This is a bit of a spoiler
Did anyone else not feel satifsed with how little in depth they went on Catwoman having a split personality? Anne Hathaway did a great job. But that was the issue with the first half. So many characters, not enough explanations.

And did anyone else hate how quickly Bane died? Like that was it?
I'm not a Hathaway fan but I enjoyed Hathaways portrayal of Catwoman and thought it was one of the best so far - much preferred her interpretation to Pfeifer or Halle. She appeared to really have fun with the role.

I do absolutely agree that character development was lacking. I think they just tried to stuff too much into the film. A lot of good ideas but execution failed.

As for the end of Bane, for me his death was more about Catwoman.
From my perspective his character was like the bomb itself, little more than an artifice to drive plot for a range of protagonists and sub-plots rather than a primary antagonist so his death providing a platform for Hathaway to deliver her line about guns was satisfactory.



No more bad guys? in a comic book movie? Thats a mega leap of disbelief no?
Do I need to reiterate that several of the characters even say so? Was I watching a different version of the film than everyone else?
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Do I need to reiterate that several of the characters even say so? Was I watching a different version of the film than everyone else?
That's not the point, it's just hard to believe that's at all possible despite Nolan putting it in the script to convince people so the rest of it works.



That's not the point, it's just hard to believe that's at all possible despite Nolan putting it in the script to convince people so the rest of it works.
It's not that all crime has stopped; it's that all the big guns have been wiped out of Gotham. Batman doesn't need to sweep up the small fries in this version of the mythology. He was needed when the city was corrupt and thugs ran everything from the drugs to the police force. With them out of the picture he's not needed until Bane shows up.



He was needed when the city was corrupt and thugs ran everything from the drugs to the police force. With them out of the picture he's not needed until Bane shows up.
It's still hard to believe no cops are corrupt

Point is that Nolan could have worded it better instead of saying "no crime"



Why?



Yes, because there are no more bad guys to hunt. Period. Why is that so hard to accept, especially when several characters say it in the film?



This film was made after the stock market tumble of 2008. Is Wayne enterprises immune to that sort of event? It was a great way to tie this universe to the real world.



No. The story makes up the story. It's extremely simple to fill in most of the gaps left by the plot points that have been raised. How did Wayne get back into Gotham? Because he's freaking Batman; the world's greatest detective with tons of resources, even without his money. How did he get away in the Bat-copter? Because he led the police to that exact spot knowing that it was parked there.



Then you have no understanding of story-telling, a hero's journey, or how to watch a film. Why are you posting on these forums if the most important aspect of every film goes ignored when you watch them?



Yeah, it kinda does make them invalid when they can be reasoned out with a minutes worth of thought. Again, no one can argue the theme or journey of the film because it's a solid ending to the trilogy, so they attack everything else.

Concerning pacing, my 8-year-old with borderline AD/HD was able to sit through the entire film and he loved it. He had trouble sitting through the slower parts of The Avengers. I know pacing can be relative to the viewer (David Lynch, anyone?), but I think that speaks highly of the film that my son could sit through it and be entertained.
Once again you make the same points all over again..
You still answer with him leading the cops to where the bat-copter was parked, when I didn;t even ask the question. but not answered why the cops were so dumb not to follow him, if he is indeed the notorious Batman, why were the cops so happy to have him cornered in the alley, when he could have easily found another escape route? the sewer perhaps..

Please make valid arguments & not just venerate yourself as a better film watcher than others, judging by all your comments here, you seem even worse then the kids who brag about how cool the Step-up movies are.
You're just imposing your thoughts on others...

So Wayne would just sulk & not try to save his business.. you can see the personal journey & philosophy, but you can't seem to see how lame the characters background has been made out in this film.
Alfred would cry like a girl to stop Bruce from fighting Bane, but if he had put that effort to convince him save his business.

Because there are no more bad guys?... how did Bane happen to be under the sewers all this while? What about Selina Kyle?...
Bane got his entire mercenary army in Gotham, didn't that even alert Bruce?

Why I find the rest of the movie unfit for that good ending? its cos I am just not convinced why he returns as Batman, Someone who is obsessed with clean up his city dressed as a masked vigilante can just ignore what's happening to his city & trusts the cops who say, "there's no more crime here"

I just don't find it a convincing story, maybe it's my good taste in movies!



When we speak of Personal journey of a hero & Batman, Batman Forever comes to mind.
Clearly that movie did the personal journey thing far better.
Bruce is haunted by the bat he saw as a child, which inspired the rest of his life.
He also has nightmares of his parents death.

He sees a bit of himself in Dick Grayson & wants him to grow up to be a better man devoid of the path of vengeance that he himself seems to have laid out for him.
He also blames himself for what happened to Harvey Dent.
When Dick forces himself to be his sidekick, he decides to give up being Batman inspite of being under threat from a certain criminal he helped create.

He also somehow has a hand in the creation of The Riddler. This sheds light he is not only a necessity for Gotham, but in a way also an invisible threat.

& in the end, everything seems to turn out well.
So inspite of the cheesy stuff, Batman Forever is quite an unique take on a hero's personal journey set in a semi-dystopian city, about a guy who was destined to be it's protector, but does he want to do it all his life?..



It's not that all crime has stopped; it's that all the big guns have been wiped out of Gotham. Batman doesn't need to sweep up the small fries in this version of the mythology. He was needed when the city was corrupt and thugs ran everything from the drugs to the police force. With them out of the picture he's not needed until Bane shows up.
Suppose that explains why the whole police force was so eager to go in the sewers and that newly promoted John Blake was the only detective in Gotham. Plus, I don't really like Batman as a straight forward crime fighter and giving up when it's done or looking for an out to run away. Prefer Bruce to NEED to be Batman to keep at rest his Demons.
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Plus, I don't really like Batman as a straight forward crime fighter and giving up when it's done or looking for an out to run away. Prefer Bruce to NEED to be Batman to keep at rest his Demons.
Thank you! This is exactly what I have been trying to say but unable to phrase it.
I don't think it's just you who prefers it that way, but I am pretty sure, that it was intended that way in the first 2 movies.



Thank you! This is exactly what I have been trying to say but unable to phrase it.
I don't think it's just you who prefers it that way, but I am pretty sure, that it was intended that way in the first 2 movies.
He did need to be Batman, since you guys were obviously not paying attention. Why do you think he was so reclusive and suicidal at the beginning of the film? Why do you think he only showed signs of life when Catwoman stole from him? He needed to be Batman but had nothing to go after. There was no threat big enough for his particular set of skills.

Again, I must have been watching a different version of the film than you.



Thought this might be of interest to some of you.

The Dark Knight Rises stars talk Oscar chances

Christopher Nolan's three 'Batman' films have racked up more than a billion dollars in box office sales and near-unanimous praise from critics.

Despite this, they've been mostly ignored in the prestigious categories at the Oscars, with the notable exception of Heath Ledger's posthumous win for 'Best Supporting Actor' in 2009. But why?

'The Dark Knight' picked another seven nominations, but these were in technical categories like 'Art Direction' and 'Sound Editing'. It was ignored for 'Best Picture' and 'Best Director', while far weaker films, such as 'Frost/Nixon', 'The Reader' and (yawn) 'The Curious Case of Benjamin Button' got nods.

Will it happen again even though 'The Dark Knight Rises' is, by consensus, another triumph?

We asked stars Anne Hathaway, Morgan Freeman, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Marion Cotillard and director Christopher Nolan.

Nolan wasn't too concerned by the Academy snubs, rightly pointing out that he's had three nominations already (for writing and directing 'Inception', and writing 'Memento'). But Freeman and Cotillard were especially forthright about the 'Batman' series receiving some belated Oscar recognition.

'The Dark Knight Rises' is in cinemas now.

Editor's note: The interviews were recorded before the dreadful events in Aurora, Denver.
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/blogs/mov...160441554.html

If you click the link you can hear the cast have their say... Apparently. I've not watched it myself
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5-time MoFo Award winner.



He did need to be Batman, since you guys were obviously not paying attention. Why do you think he was so reclusive and suicidal at the beginning of the film? Why do you think he only showed signs of life when Catwoman stole from him? He needed to be Batman but had nothing to go after. There was no threat big enough for his particular set of skills.

Again, I must have been watching a different version of the film than you.
I have no idea where it was shown that he was reclusive & suicidal cos there was no crime that deserves his attention.
So according to you, He waited for Selina to steal from him?, rather than the unmentioned crimes she has been reported to be mentioned in the past 8 years or so?..
I thought he took interest in Selina cos he was playfully attracted to her & also interested in why she wanted her fingerprints?

So when Bruce looks into her crimes, So indeed there heve been crimes during his absence.. Or was it that Selina's crimes happened 8 years ago & she came out of hiding cos she got an oppurtunity to clear her name?

Ohh also for 8 years his business taking a slow bite at the dust, he does seem to have money to throw for events in memory of Dent.. or does his financial team or board members refuse to explain to him they are no longer in a position to host such events.

BTW I am sure I have seen Dark Knight Rises, directed by Christopher Nolan, no idea which movie you've watched.
Better watch out, those Asylum guys can be real tricky sometimes.



He did need to be Batman, since you guys were obviously not paying attention. Why do you think he was so reclusive and suicidal at the beginning of the film? Why do you think he only showed signs of life when Catwoman stole from him? He needed to be Batman but had nothing to go after. There was no threat big enough for his particular set of skills.

Again, I must have been watching a different version of the film than you.
Although there may have been 'no crime', he was in hiding because he had taken the fall for Two-Face not for lack to do, which you'd hardly know considering the public consensus seemed to be one of admiration, except a few ambitious cops. And even if that was the case, the ending undermines any suggestion that he NEEDS to be Batman by the fact he's left Gotham seemingly because he found a bit of pussy (pun intended). So presumably the arc was: becomes a symbol - take a fall to preserve Dent act - rises to become the hero. But he never really seemed to have fallen, except into personal recluse

I'm not quite sure why i'm getting into this as wasn't even that bothered by it.



What I don't understand is the ending. Is Batman really dead? There was a mention of auto-pilot on the Batwing, but when could he have ejected (for that matter, if he could've set it to auto-pilot, why climb in in the first place)? And when Alfred sees Bruce and Selina at the end, is he just fantasizing like he talked about earlier in the movie, or are they really there (Bruce could've known to go there to see Alfred since Alfred told him about the place earlier)? If it is just Alfred imagining it, why is imagining Selina with Bruce? How would he have really known about their relationship to that kind of level since he left so early in the movie?

Nolan just seems to love inserting mysteries into his films (remember in Inception [spoilers=Inception]at the end with the spinning top? We're supposed to think it's reality, but the top seems to keep on spinning...[/spoiler]). I'm still puzzled about Rah's Al Ghul in the first movie. It seems to be commonly accepted that Watanabe's character was merely a decoy and "Ducard" was Rah's all along. After all, there was the part where Bruce says he had been concealing his true identity all along, and Rah's reaction seems to confirm Bruce's statement. On the other hand, isn't it strange that Ducard seems to find it ironic when the beam falls on Bruce, like it did on the supposed Rah's decoy? He then says, "Justice is served. You burned my house and left me for dead. Consider us even." And yet, he didn't leave him for dead at all. He rescued him and left him in a villager's care, who told Bruce he would tell Ducard Bruce saved his life. I also wonder about the vision Bruce has in prison in The Dark Knight Rises. It could just be that he was delirious and imagining it, but is it possible that it had something to do with Rah's supposed supernatural powers which he speaks of in Batman Begins? Still, that doesn't so much seem Nolan's speed, who seems to like to keep things more in the real world. Really, I'm still not convinced either way on the whole issue.


As for my thoughts on the movie overall, as with all of Nolan's stuff, I think it commands more than one viewing to really better understand and appreciate it and all its little subtleties and twists. I plan to see it again soon, but I can already say it's a 5 star film to me, and is up there with the other two films, though I think Batman Begins will always be my favorite. The film is fantastic in almost every way. About my only complaints are: 1) Alfred is gone almost the entire film and he may never have had the chance to really have things patched up with Bruce, depending on the truth of the ending scene. 2) Catwoman has no claws?! What's a cat without claws? Also would've been nice if she had her whip, and if she was actually called Catwoman at least once in the film. Even the credits just list her mearly as "Selina". 3) Venom, a key element of Bane's character, is gone completely. Still the film worked well even without it. Maybe Nolan thought it was too sci-fi for his tastes?

I'd also like to second a prior post voting for Caine to get an Oscar. He's been over-looked on the past two movies, and his superior performances should not go overlooked. He wasn't just excellent; he redefined the whole character to me. He put every other performance as Alfred to shame, I think, and I still do really like Efrem Zimbalist Jr.'s performances in the DC animated material. Caine will be the most irreplaceable of all the actors come reboot time.

That being said, it's still tough for me to choose between Caine, who had a smaller part in this movie, and Hardy, who was amazing as Bane, for my vote in the Supporting Actor Oscar nod. I also must give major thumbs up to Hathaway's excellent performance as Catwoman.

Nolan has done it again, and I sure am reluctant to see this franchise end. I can't imagine it ever being bested.



I have no idea where it was shown that he was reclusive & suicidal cos there was no crime that deserves his attention.
No one in Gotham had seen Batman or Wayne for 8 years. He had no interest in rehabilitating his leg. He wouldn't let the help into the east wing other than Alfred. I'm not sure what definition of "recluse" you're using.



Just wanna be on record saying that, whatever my gripes, I think the jump forward in time is awesome and gutsy.

Agreed... it's Nolan... how gutsy was The Joker, or Nolan's choice of villian for Begins.

Surprise is the key and non-conformity is the plot.

Nailed in all 3 movies.



No one in Gotham had seen Batman or Wayne for 8 years. He had no interest in rehabilitating his leg. He wouldn't let the help into the east wing other than Alfred. I'm not sure what definition of "recluse" you're using.
Regardless of what meaning of recluse I might have used, none of your statements support your previous statement.
You said that we were obviously not paying attention, so wanted to know where I missed out on this.

I have no idea where it was shown that he was reclusive & suicidal cos there was no crime that deserves his attention.
I am quite sure it wasn't shown anywhere that he withdrew himself to solitude cos there was no crime to fight. Alfred clearly mentions later that he was beat up cos Rachel's death... Nothing about the crime out there not being worthy of his attention.