Who will take on Obama in 2012?

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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Oh, and going back to the whole discussion about special elections and Medicare (both discussions ended with me pointing out that the evidence is entirely mixed and...well, I was never really clear on what the counterargument to that was). We have two more data points, in two special elections a couple of weeks ago, both won by Republicans. Nate Silver has some typically helpful analysis about why it seems roughly consistent with the kind of political climate we saw in 2010, or at least might not be far from it.

Specifically, NY-9 was a seat Republicans hadn't held in eighty-eight years until Turner defeated Weprin. And what's more, Weprin used the Medicare-centric campaign against Turner. The one you implied would be such an albatross around the necks of Republican candidates.

So, in light of this new information, are you going to continue trying to tell me with a straight face that NY-26 was some kind of national bellwether?
We'll see, New York results more significant than Nevada, but I think Republicans will do poorly even with a bad ecconomy if Perry is their nominee by throwing Social Security into the fire as well as Medicare. Romney might pull them through.
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will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Americans tend to rate Barack Obama a better president than predecessor George W. Bush, but not as good a president as Bill Clinton, according to a new USA TODAY/Gallup Poll.
The Bush comparison has more bearing on Obama's chances of winning re-election next year, the poll says.
"Obama succeeded Bush as president during a down economy that is still struggling to recover," said the Gallup report. "Thus, a key comparison voters will make is whether Obama is doing better than his predecessor, which would enhance his chances of re-election, or worse than Bush, which makes it less likely Americans would reward him with a second term."
According to Gallup, 43% rate Obama a better president than Bush, while 34% rate him as a worse president; another 22% say the two president are "about the same."
"It could be argued that saying Obama has been about the same as Bush is also a negative evaluation, given that Bush left office with low approval ratings and Americans generally did not judge his presidency to be very successful," said the Gallup Poll.
The poll added: "Indeed, those who say Obama has been about the same as Bush generally view Obama negatively, with 27% approving and 62% disapproving of the way Obama is handling his job as president."
Only 12% of respondents rated Obama better than his most recent Democratic predecessor, Bill Clinton; 50% rated Obama a worse president than Clinton, while 35% see them as about the same.
Gallup's conclusion:
The outcome of presidential elections, particularly for incumbent presidents, largely turns on performance evaluations. If Americans are generally happy with the state of the nation, they are generally likely to re-elect the incumbent. If they are dissatisfied, the incumbent is at risk of defeat.
Americans are currently highly dissatisfied with the state of the nation, with 11% satisfied and 88% dissatisfied. That certainly is a threat to a second Obama term, but that by itself may not doom him. Though Obama's job approval rating is in the low 40s, he is currently competitive with both of his main Republican rivals in voters' 2012 general election preferences.
Voters may give Obama more leeway because of the poor state of the nation when he took office, and as of now, they appear to be doing so, as Americans still blame Bush more than Obama for the country's economic problems.
At the same time, the fact that less than half of Americans say Obama has been a better president than Bush, given the low regard Americans have for the Bush presidency, poses a clear challenge for Obama.
The 2012 election remains more than a year away, and surely those perceptions can change. How they change in the coming months will go a long way toward deciding whether Obama or a Republican is inaugurated in January 2013



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Yeah, and how's that federal regulation working out? What about all the other millions of examples of products you can buy across state lines?

There's no way around this. The argument against buy insurance across state lines looks absurd when you apply it to almost every other industry.


Please stop talking as if there's an audience. That's the only reason I can think of to explain why you would trot out populist vapidity about "protecting consumers," which is wholly rhetorical and makes no argument whatsoever. You're wasting both your time and mine with the purely rhetorical accusations. Particularly the kind that have you peering into your Republican crystal ball and telling me what we all really think.

Also, what part of the above is even supposed to be noteworthy, except for the empty incendiary bit at the end? Congratulations, you've successfully pegged Republicans as people who generally distrust large government (I like how you called it "strong" instead of "large." The pretend audience would probably have responded really well to that). Since when is this a secret?
It shows conservative's ideological inconsistency. They claim they want more state autonomy, but want to use the federal government to take power away from states by taking away their ability to regulate an industry that affects the health of people.

Conservatives do like big government. They trust it when it is a Republican in the White House. They supported Bush's assault on civil liberties. He was hardly a small government Republican. His militaristic, confrontational foreign policy was hardly consistent with small government. Starting two wars at the same time is not small government. Legalizing the torture of prisoners is not small government. They just don't like government regulating large corporations. Conervatives only pay lip service to small government.



I honestly think its crazy that he really has not done much that he promised during his election.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
CNN) -- Texas Gov. Rick Perry's presidential campaign was dealt a worrying blow Saturday when he finished in a distant second place to businessman Herman Cain in a closely watched straw poll in Florida.

Cain won 37 percent of the 2,657 votes cast in the straw poll conducted at Presidency 5, a three-day convention sponsored by the Republican Party of Florida that brought thousands of party activists to Orlando






I think Perry is dropping like a rock and Tim Pawlenty if he really wanted to be President made a big mistake dropping out so early. Yeah, he wasn't raising money like he wanted to, but look at what we have now. If he was still in it, and Perry fades, he would be the logical challenger to Romney. It certainly won't be Bachmann who is clearly a joke the more I see of her.

Romney's problems increases the odds (but not a lot) Sarah Palin jumps in.

I think it is hilarious his biggest problem is coming from dissatisfaction from the right. I think "you don't have a heart" doomed his candidacy. Not only is it the wrong thing to say to conservatives (many don't have a heart and prove it by applauding "let them die" regarding the sick uninsured), but in this case it wasn't even appropriate. Whatever your opinion may be, not giving illegal immigrants in-state tuition doesn't prevent them from going to college, just makes it more expensive, putting them in the same situation as out of state students. The can still apply I think for grants and scholarships. The notion that he was a strong presidential candidate because he had a great election record in Texas doesn't mean anything now. I suppose he still might pull out a miracle (maybe he is praying for one right now), but if he flames out in Iowa he is done. He is doing nothing in New Hampshire polling and I doubt he will win North Carolina if he loses Iowa. He could win North Carolina if he wins Iowa and supposedly that would mean he gets the nomination because that state always picks the Republican nominee. I wouldn't hold my breath that happens this time. There is a first for everything and this could be the year NC picks a loser. I think Florida will be Perry's Waterloo if he makes it that far.

One more thing, this thing I keep hearing Perry is a Bush sound alike isn't true. The class differences in their accent is obvious. Perry has that redneck sound, Bush's accent is more low-key and less harsh



Conservatives have hijacked the national debate with more "big government" rhetoric, when the real issue is "effective government," i.e. actually doing their job by providing oversight for business practices and reducing fraud.

For those that want to be strict constitutionalists and cry that "healthcare isn't mentioned," neither were most modern civil rights, but I guess those were a net negative right? If we were going to be governing based on the founding father's intent, then women and blacks would stay home on voting day.
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Our system is broken. The people in power, Republicans and Democrats alike, care more about scoring political points and securing votes for the next election than they do about instituting policies to help our nation. Rather than working every day to help this country recover from the tremendous financial collapse and devastation that has befallen it, they choose to continue to let our country continue to languish in despair. It is simply a travesty that those in power are not working every day to help our nation emerge from one of the worst crises in our nations history. Although I do lean liberal, I am an independent thinker and not beholden to any one party or interest group. What follows is one man's opinion about how to get our country back on track.

Our country is in crisis, yet the first thing politicians in power cut is our education system. In order to recover from this financial collapse, we need to out-educate and out-innovate our competition. While India and China are rising and educating the next generation of innovators, we are cutting funding for education, rising tuition at colleges and universities, and laying off teachers. This is exactly the wrong prescription for getting our country back on track. Education is our most important social priority. Those in society who have an education are less likely to be in poverty, less likely to commit crime, and more likely to contribute constructively to our society. If I were the dictator, I would make the starting salary for teachers $75000 a year. In order to have a first class education system, we need to attract the best and the brightest to teach our children. Our system currently does not do that. If the starting salary for a teacher were $75000 instead of $4000, more people would consider teaching. Teachers have one of the hardest and most important job in our society but instead of recognizing the hard and important work that they do, we take them for granted. If we hope to grow our economy and recover from this financial collapse, this needs to change now.

We should also reform tenure. Teachers need more support from administrators and society at large in order to continue doing their job, and we as a society should give them all the support they need, but if a teacher is not doing a good job, we need to fire them and get somebody else to teach our children. The idea that the teacher's unions have a strangle hold on our education system, and that the only way a school can fire a teacher is if they sleep with one of their students, is not in service of our nation's needs.

If I were the dictator, I would put more money into education, not less. I would modernize our schools. I would ensure that our children had books and supplies and computers. I would ensure that rather than having schools that were dilapidated and falling apart, that we had schools that were modern and well suited to meet our children's needs. The system that we have is simply not working. While I believe in a strong public education system, I know that it will take time and resources. It simply cannot happen overnight. Therefore, in the interim, I would give every family a tax credit to send their children to a private or charter school. Our children can simply not afford to wait for schools that are not falling apart. They need help now. We need help now. Politicians need to stop playing games and start doing what is in the best interest of our society. The time for political gamesmanship is over. The time for change is now. Our people can simply not afford to wait until the next election to get something done.

If I were the dictator, rather than giving tax credits to the wealthy and well-connected in our society, I would put money into building our roads, schools and bridges. We can simply not afford to have roads and bridges that are falling apart. It is unsafe, it is unfair, and it needs to change now. I would put people all over this country back to work rebuilding our nation. China is spending huge amounts of money rebuilding their society. In order to compete in a global economy, we must do the same. We have no choice. We need to pick up the hammer and the chisel and start building now. The time for change is now. What conservatives seem not to understand is that we do not have a short-term problem with our economy. We have a long-term structural problem. By spending money now, we will begin to address those structural problems and improve things for our future. It will cost money now, but pay it will pay off in droves later. We can simply not afford to merely cut government spending. Cutting government spending will not modernize our society. Cutting government spending will not improve our schools. If I were the dictator, I would invest, not because I believe government should do everything, but because I believe our country must do something.

I would finance a high speed rail system to connect our people. A high speed rail system would, over time, be a boon to our economy. It would make travel easier and attract business to our nation. It would increase tourism, which would be of great benefit to our economy. It would make doing business easier, not harder. It would, over time, be of great benefit to the people of our society.

I know that we currently are trillions of dollars in debt, and that our level of debt is unsustainable. I know that in the long term, we have to cut government spending. We simply cannot sustain this level of debt in the future. It will bankrupt this country. At the same time, our economy is in crisis. Our roads are crumbling. Our schools are falling apart. Our children are suffering. Poverty is rising. Standard of living is falling. The markets are in turmoil. People are losing their homes. People are losing their jobs. Most importantly, people are losing their faith, their hope, and their sanity. This is simply not the time to be drastically cutting spending. The government is the only entity in the society that has the means to spend. Government is the only entity that has the capacity to invest in our future. We cannot cut our way out of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. We cannot spend our way out of this financial disaster. We must do both. We must invest now and cut later. Once our economy stabilizes, we need to take a hard look at entitlement programs. We need to reform the way that government works. We need to make hard choices about what government can and should do, how much we can afford, and what we are going to spend. This is essential for the long-term health of our nation, but the time for that is not now. First we must emerge from this crisis.

Republicans and Democrats are fond of playing political games. Democrats want government to do everything. Republicans want the government to do nothing. President Ronald Reagan, who led the conservative revolution in the 1980's stated that "government is not the solution to our problems. Government is the problem." While credit should be given to his speech writers for writing a catchy line, this age old argument about the role of government is the wrong argument. It is fundamentally flawed. We should not concern ourselves with how much the government does. The issue is not whether the government is large or small, activist or passive. The issue is whether the government is effective. There are certain things the government does well, and there are others that the government does poorly. This is the conversation we need to be having. This is the dialogue our country needs. Instead, we get antiquated arguments lacking in substance about whether government should be large or small and told that "the era of big government is over." The era of government is not over. Government is essential to the functioning of our society. We want the government to protect us from terror. We want the government to ensure that our foods and medications are safe. We want the government to provide us Social Security when we become old and Medicare and Medicaid when we become sick. I don't care if the government is large or small. I care if the government is effective. That's the debate we need to be having. Instead, Republicans and Democrats bicker making useless and non-substantive arguments in order to score points to win an election. We elected these people to do their jobs, not to go to fundraisers, curry to special interests, and fight with each other. It's time for us to demand that they do their job.

In order to be able to get out of this economic crisis, we need to be able to spend, and have money to pay down our debt, but again, rather than having a reasoned conversation about who we turn to to finance the spending we need, we have political arguments about the rich "paying their fair share." While this sounds great, it's simply not accurate. Doctors, lawyers, small business owners all over this country are paying their fair share. That is not the issue. Corporations, CEO's and hedge fund managers are not. People who make their income via investment are not, but the rest of this society does. The rich are already paying their fair share. The issue is not whether the rich are paying their fair share. The issue is that our nation is in crisis, and the only people who can afford to pay are those in our society who have done well. If I were the dictator, I'd appeal to the wealthy in our society to pay a little bit more because they are the only ones who can afford to do so. We can't balance our budget on the backs of the poor and middle class. They don't have the money. They are struggling as it is. The wealthy can afford to pay more because they have more but the Democratic argument that they are not "paying their fair share" merely alienates the wealthy. Instead of these politically convenient arguments designed to win an election, why not go on TV and appeal to the wealthy to help this nation get back on track. Why not appeal to their sense of decency, their sense of civic duty, and their sense of morality and right and wrong?

It is not that those of us who believe the wealthy need to pay higher taxes begrudge their success. Those who make the effort to get an education and better themselves should do well. Those who have worked hard to get to where they are should be rewarded for their success. That is not the issue. The issue is that we can't cut our way out of this problem. The issue is that before I, as the self-appointed dictator, ask the middle class to pay more, I want those who can already afford it to do so, not because they make a lot of money, but because it's a service to their nation. The wealthy have done well while everyone else's income has stagnated. The wealthy can afford to pay more, not because they deserve to, but because they have the means to do so. We should be appealing to the wealthy to help our society get back on track, not attack them for their success. It's not that they don't "pay their fair share." It's that the country needs more, and they are the only ones in our society with the means to provide it. This is what I say to wealthy Americans. We need your help. Our society is in crisis. We are grateful to you for making an even larger contribution. Thank you.

If I were the dictator, I would raise taxes on the wealthy. I would reform our corporate tax structure and lower the overall rate. This is an issue I think the Republicans have it right on. Our corporate taxes are the highest in the world. We must lower it to attract business to our nation. We simply cannot afford to alienate business interests at a time when we need their help most.

If I were the dictator, I'd reform Medicare and Social Security. I'd raise the cap for payroll taxes. I'd raise the retirement age from 65 to 67. I'd create a public option. I'd allow states to buy insurance across state lines, and I'd stop giving 85 year old people heart bypass surgery. No other nation does this. We spend more money on healthcare than any other nation yet our life expectancy and health outcomes are worse. The idea that we spend 2/3 of our healthcare spending in the last few months of life is insane and counter-productive. It doesn't help the sick to live longer. It merely prolongs their suffering, and it expends wasted resources on something that we cannot afford. While it may be politically unpopular, it needs to be done. Part of being a leader is educating the populace about not just what they want to but what they need to hear. We cannot afford to have the health care system we do. Things are not working. The time for change is now. While it's great to be old and healthy, we need to acknowledge that we're all going to die one day. Spending trillions of dollars to prolong life for a few months is irrational and counterproductive. Spending $100,000 on bypass surgery for an 85 year old man with only a few years to live in even the best of circumstances doesn't work. I'd love to be able to keep everybody alive forever, but we can't afford it. Our nation needs to face this fact.

If I were the dictator, I'd encourage our society to stop playing political games, and start working together to get our nation back on track. The time for political dawdling is over. We cannot afford to wait until the next election. It is time to rise up and let our voices be heard. The time for political gamesmanship is over. The time for action is now.



Let me ask, you have at least two Presidential candidates running on the platform of gutting Medicare and further relaxing government oversight, but conservatives still get offended when someone said the Republican healthcare plan was to;" die quickly," how exactly is this factually inaccurate at this point? Also, don't try to portray it as a means of conservation, that we have to cut now to save later, this is based on a belief that entitlement programs in general are inherently flawed and what's more unconstitutional.

I have to say. . . He was so right.


Well, if the Repubnicans win, be ready for the corpses of the elderly and disabled to litter the streets like confetti. Then expect swift legislation illegalizing the formation of unions, can't have the pee ons asking for benefits! LOL I can't wait, then when all these over-night tea partiers lose their healthcare and overtime, all long-faced and dumfounded, I can say "I TOLD YOU SO!" I love being right, I called it last year!

Anyone who defends the current group of Repub scumbags doesn't deserve healthcare either. It would be sad if Rick Perry or Ron Paul lost their money and were stricken with cancer, but certainly ironic.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
Blue Cross praised employees who dropped sick policyholders, lawmaker says


Workers received high marks on performance reviews after policies were rescinded, documents show. The health insurer denies the practice is a factor in evaluations.


June 17, 2009|Lisa Girion
Executives of three of the nation's largest health insurers told federal lawmakers in Washington on Tuesday that they would continue canceling medical coverage for some sick policyholders, despite withering criticism from Republican and Democratic members of Congress who decried the practice as unfair and abusive.
The hearing on the controversial action known as rescission, which has left thousands of Americans burdened with costly medical bills despite paying insurance premiums, began a day after President Obama outlined his proposals for revamping the nation's healthcare system.


An investigation by the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations showed that health insurers WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group and Assurant Inc. canceled the coverage of more than 20,000 people, allowing the companies to avoid paying more than $300 million in medical claims over a five-year period.
It also found that policyholders with breast cancer, lymphoma and more than 1,000 other conditions were targeted for rescission and that employees were praised in performance reviews for terminating the policies of customers with expensive illnesses.
"No one can defend, and I certainly cannot defend, the practice of canceling coverage after the fact," said Rep. Michael C. Burgess (R-Tex.), a member of the committee. "There is no acceptable minimum to denying coverage after the fact."
The executives -- Richard A. Collins, chief executive of UnitedHealth's Golden Rule Insurance Co.; Don Hamm, chief executive of Assurant Health and Brian Sassi, president of consumer business for WellPoint Inc., parent of Blue Cross of California -- were courteous and matter-of-fact in their testimony.
But they would not commit to limiting rescissions to only policyholders who intentionally lie or commit fraud to obtain coverage, a refusal that met with dismay from legislators on both sides of the political aisle.
Experts said it could undermine the industry's efforts to influence healthcare-overhaul plans working their way toward the White House.
"Talk about tone deaf," said Robert Laszewski, a former health insurance executive who now counsels companies as a consultant.
Democratic strategist Paul Begala said the hearing could hurt the industry's efforts to position itself in the debate.
"The industry has tried very hard in this current effort not to be the bad guy, not to wear the black hat," Begala said. "The trouble is all that hard work and goodwill is at risk if in fact they are pursuing" such practices.
Rescission was largely hidden until three years ago, when The Times launched a series of stories disclosing that insurers routinely canceled the medical coverage of individual policyholders who required expensive medical care.
Sassi said rescissions are necessary to prevent people who lie about preexisting conditions from obtaining coverage and driving up costs for others.
"I want to emphasize that rescission is about stopping fraud and material misrepresentations that contribute to spiraling healthcare costs," Sassi told the committee.
But rescission victims testified that their policies were canceled for inadvertent omissions or honest mistakes about medical history on their applications. Rescission, they said, was about improving corporate profits rather than rooting out fraud.

"It's about the money," said Jennifer Wittney Horton, a Los Angeles woman whose policy was rescinded after failure to report a weight-loss medication she was no longer taking and irregular menstruation.
"Insurers ignore the law, and when they find a discrepancy or omission, they rescind the policy and refuse to pay any of your medical bills -- even for routine treatment or treatment they previously authorized," Horton said.
She and others from around the country accused insurers in testimony of gaming anti-fraud laws to take policyholders' premiums, only to drop people who developed serious illnesses. They testified that they or a deceased loved one had had policies canceled over innocent mistakes and inadvertent omissions on their applications.
A Texas nurse said she lost her coverage, after she was diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer, for failing to disclose a visit to a dermatologist for acne.
The sister of an Illinois man who died of lymphoma said his policy was rescinded for the failure to report a possible aneurysm and gallstones that his physician noted in his chart but did not discuss with him.
The committee's investigation found that WellPoint's Blue Cross targeted individuals with more than 1,400 conditions, including breast cancer, lymphoma, pregnancy and high blood pressure. And the committee obtained documents that showed Blue Cross supervisors praised employees in performance reviews for rescinding policies.
One employee, for instance, received a perfect 5 for "exceptional performance" on an evaluation that noted the employee's role in dropping thousands of policyholders and avoiding nearly $10 million worth of medical care.



Stop right there. Stop asking things and start answering a few of them. You come in here and pontificate, but you have almost nothing to say when people shoot holes in it. Shall I point you to the many, many things you've yet to answer? I'd be glad to compile a list of them. Or are you just going to stick your fingers in your ears and keep saying it over and over?

you have at least two Presidential candidates running on the platform of gutting Medicare and further relaxing government oversight, but conservatives still get offended when someone said the Republican healthcare plan was to;" die quickly," how exactly is this factually inaccurate at this point? Also, don't try to portray it as a means of conservation, that we have to cut now to save later, this is based on a belief that entitlement programs in general are inherently flawed and what's more unconstitutional.
It's inaccurate in the same way it's inaccurate to say that not wanting the government to buy your food is a plan that says "try not to starve" or any plan without public transportation says "find your own way to work." Any party advocating freedom in any area is susceptible to that kind of rhetoric. But it's also inaccurate on a literal level, anyway, because the plan Republicans passed does have healthcare, it just restructures it with vouchers in the case of Medicare.

Also, your last point is a non-sequitur. For one, it doesn't describe any of the major candidates. And for another, the one it seems to try to describe--Perry--thiks federal entitlements are unconstitutional. This is a distinction you keep failing to make that I keep having to remind you of, and it's a distinction that eradicates your point.

I have to say. . . He was so right.
Have you looked into Grayson at all? He's a terrible person. He employs hateful rhetoric and deliberately misquoted his opponent and then used the misquote to nickname him "Taliban Dan." Even the highly progressive publication Mother Jones thinks he's ridiculous.

This is what happens when you start making ad-hoc, emotional arguments. You end up throwing in your lot with despicable people.

Well, if the Repubnicans win, be ready for the corpses of the elderly and disabled to litter the streets like confetti.
This is just ignorant crap.

But I guess this kind of offensive nonsense is all you have to offer the discussion, because you sure don't seem capable of offering anything of substance, or any serious defense of what you say. Which begs the question: how do you convince yourself that it's okay to go on believing something you can't even remotely defend?



By the way, currently all this is moot because what you call Obamacare makes recission illegal. That part of the law has already gone into effect.

There has never been a class action suit regarding recission. I don't know exctly why, but the standards for them are rather precise and it may be it would be impossible to have one on this. This idea the poor insurance companies are regulated enough I don't get.
Well, nobody calls them the "poor insurance companies," for one. But the idea is clearly a response to the idea that healthcare costs too much. Not being able to buy across state lines is undeniably a part of this, in the same way any form of protectionism, be it across national borders or state ones, inevitably drives prices up.

The regulation already exists in many states and as regulations go, it is certainly less onerous than the fact in most states they can't raise premiums unless they can justify it to a regulatory agency.
That's fine. I'm not arguing that it's the most onerous regulation. The one you cite is far more ridiculous. But then, the industry doesn't lack for problems. This goes back to my point earlier, that the current system cannot be cited as some failed example of the free market, because it is anything but.



We'll see, New York results more significant than Nevada, but I think Republicans will do poorly even with a bad ecconomy if Perry is their nominee by throwing Social Security into the fire as well as Medicare. Romney might pull them through.
Well, if it took months and numerous counterexamples and general appeals to humility to get "we'll see," I guess I'll take that. Personally I'd rather we all just be far less sure of things based on highly anecdotal evidence to begin with, but I'd have to call this progress.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
The LA Times dug out an old report on George W's primary debate performance to show he also ran into trouble because of shaky performances, but he won the primary anyway and the election. I've put a link to it because it is interesting, but the big difference Bush wasn't getting hammered by actions he took as Governor and hadn't made controversial comments about Social Security. Bush was criticized for being too scripted and sticking to his talking points. Perry's problem is he needs to stick closer to a script. I think "don't have a heart" just killed his chances.

http://articles.latimes.com/1999/dec/09/news/mn-42036



It shows conservative's ideological inconsistency. They claim they want more state autonomy, but want to use the federal government to take power away from states by taking away their ability to regulate an industry that affects the health of people.
I just pointed out, like, two posts ago, that the proposal does not take away states' ability to regulate them, it just doesn't FORCE companies to sell only in-state. It's really, really transparently rhetorical to phrase it as "taking away" anything when you're really just not forcing companies to do something absurd.

The idea that this represents general conservative hypocrisy is wrong for two reasons. The first is that they're not doing what you describe, because they're not actually removing any authority from states. The second is that even if they were, there's nothing at all inconsistent about wanting states to make their decisiosn as opposed to the federal government, yet still think some state regulations are unreasonable. Nothing at all. You're horrendously confused if you actually believe otherwise, but I think it's more likely you just haven't thought this through.

Seriously, consider the implication of what you're saying. You're saying that, in order to believe in states' rights, a conservative is never allowed to think a state ever has an unreasonable regulation of any sort, and anything else is hypocrisy. Wha?

Conservatives do like big government. They trust it when it is a Republican in the White House. They supported Bush's assault on civil liberties. He was hardly a small government Republican. His militaristic, confrontational foreign policy was hardly consistent with small government. Starting two wars at the same time is not small government. Legalizing the torture of prisoners is not small government. They just don't like government regulating large corporations. Conervatives only pay lip service to small government.
Generalizations are not arguments. There was considerable conservative backlash. And as I've pointed out to you many, many times, "small government" is not binary. Nobody pretends it is, either. So you're not debunking anything when you list instances in which conservatives support additional government action. No conservative who says they're "small government" intends for that phrase to mean "less government in absolutely every area and in absolutely all circumstances." Your entire point here only exists if you assume that's what it means, which there is absolutely no reason to do. It's shorthand for a general predisposition, not a two-word encompassment of an entire ideology.

I'm really tempted, at this point, to start saving these responses in a text file so I can just copy and paste them when they crop up again a couple of months from now. If you want to keep taking issue with this stuff, take issue with my response. Not sure why we keep "resetting" the discussion.



By the way, though I think Perry has performed terribly, my old man pointed out to me that he's recently had back surgery. No idea how much that factors in, but he was probably in pain at the time.

I also think he's completely right when he says we shouldn't be looking to nominate the slickest candidate or the best debater. There's very little reason to assume either thing tells us much about governing. I am not so naive as to think it won't matter, but it should definitely matter a lot less. Oh well.



will.15's Avatar
Semper Fooey
The problem for Perry isn't that he isn't as slick as Romney or not as good a debater; it is he does a piss poor job of defending the controversial things he did as Governor and gets tied up in knots trying to explain his current position on Social Security. Getting tongue tied trying to attack Romney for his flip flopping and giving an incoherent answer on terrorists getting hold of nuclear weapons in Pakistan (he should have dodged that question by saying something like I am not even going to try to answer something like that because as President I will make sure something like that never happens) is the least of his problems.



Saying that he does a poor job of defending things or "gets tied up in knots" is basically the same thing as saying he's not slick enough, or not a very good debater. The point is the same: sounding bad in taking a shot at Romney's changing positions, for example, is a really weird criteria to use to determine how effective someone would be as President.

I have no expectation this will change, but factually, he's correct about the disproportionate amount of emphasis we place on things which are largely superficial. This shouldn't even be controversial. One thing most of us agree on is that politicians are often better at sounding competent than at being competent.



I'm voting straight Socialist, the only true party of the impoverished. Yoda, I'm not going to bother searching for videos, showing exactly what the candidates have said, because you are fully aware and keep trying to cast a new light of nuisance that isn't there or explain why it's extremely reasonable, so I won't bother. This country is chock full of people who are totally brainwashed by ancap philosophy and think that since government disappoints us, that corporate America should be let off the leash, that's fine, but I'm not buying it. It's simple cause and effect, cut social programs for disabled and elderly and it will increase illness and mortality, you can defend it and say it's for a greater good, but you can't argue the results.