Does the "Bad Guy" ever win?

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Mr M Rides Again

MoFo Survivor - r3port3r66 wins!!!!!!

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It's a god-awful small affair, To the girl with, the mousy hair, But her mummy is yelling "No", and her daddy has told her to go, But her friend is nowhere to be seen, Now she walks through her sunken dream, To the seat with the clearest view, And she's hooked to the silver screen, But the film is a saddening bore, For she's lived it ten times or more...

In final destination how is there a bad guy.The movie is about a pattern of death not a bad guy.

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Evil lives...

C'mon: this isn't a science. We don't always need a guy with a goatee laughing maniacally to have a "bad guy." I think it's perfectly reasonable to say the "bad guy" won in Memento, not based so much on the facts of what happened in the film, but based on how the film showed them to us.

Case in point: Marlon Brando's Don Corleone in The Godfather is not a "good" guy, but he is the good guy. The same goes for bad guys; each film shows us events from a certain perspective. Sometimes that perspective casts a bad person in a good light (or at least, a sympathetic light). The opposite can also be true. With that in mind, I think it's defensible (and certainly reasonable, if a little arguable) to say that the "bad guy" won in Memento.

As for POTA: in the thread you linked to, Sedai, I had a number of contentions. Feel free to reply to them there if you wish. In anticipation of that, however, I'd like to mention that just because we maybe be able to work out a way for things to fit, it doesn't mean they do. There's a fine line between leaving the audience to figure things out for themselves, and simply not making any sense. You can rationalize lots of hole-filled plots if you really want to, but if the movie doesn't at least hint at or lead us towards a plausible conclusion, then we shouldn't be making excuses for it.

Death IS the bad guy. The films routinely talk about death as if it were a person.

I see what your saying.

kezer soze is the epitome of a bad guy winning.

yes, yes he was

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And like that .... he's gone

hahah and it looks like i spelled his name wrong.. kaiser soze it is.

Final destination: there is no bad guy. Resident Evil - it has a cliffhanger ending, The texas chainsaw massacre - one chick escapes.

You also forgot House of 1000 corpses.

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"All I have in this world is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for no one."

depending on prospective you could say that in swordfish the bad guy wins.

In Some ways skynet wins at the end of T3..i mean it accomplished its purpose of making sure that judgement day still occured...but i really don't know because judgement day could have been predestined no matter what and all skynet had to do was sit back and do what it supposed to do...

thanks for your input, i havent looked at them movies from that aspect, I suppose because the "favoured character" triumphs. I was thinking more on the lines when, a character is built for the audience to hate and actually wins.

off the Top of my head MatchStick Men fits this description you gave most closely.

One of my favorite movies, it just makes you mad.

In the film Funny Games by Michael Haneke the bad guys definately win.

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

empire strikes back

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wise man say, forgivness is devine but never pay full price for late pizza.

Se7en (already mentioned above) is the prime example of the bad guy getting what he wants. That ending will never cease to amaze me! Fantastic film, played to perfection by all three leads.

Cheers, Martin

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Yes, and one need look no further then the genera of the war film to find it. And here are a baker's dozen of films that more or less prove my point.

In "Bataan" and "Wake Island," who wins? Is it the Americans or those sneaky . . . with their Coke-bottle glasses and buck teeth. Two guesses?

And I doubt if many people think the Germans were the "good guys" in "A Bridge Too Far," or that the Mexicans are the "good guys" in the upcoming "The Alamo."

Of course, it depends upon what is your definition of a "Bad Guy," If your a believer in Southern Rights, then you might feel that the "Bad Guys" won in "Gettysburg," but lost in "Glory."

Of course, the "Bad Guys" can change from film to film. In "They Died with Their Boots On," the "Bad Guys" won, but in "Little Big Man," the "Bad Guys" lost, and both films were on the same subject, Custer's Last Stand.

Of course, there are those films that it is difficult to determine who is the "Bad Guy." In "Waterloo, " is it the French or the Allies, and in "Zulu Dawn," is it the whites or the blacks? If it is the French, then they lost, but, if it is the blacks, then they won.

And, of course, we are not the only ones to make films about the "Bad Guys" winning. The Australians make "Gallipoli," probably the greatest defeat suffered by the Australians in World War I. The British made "The Eagle Has Landed," where the Germans are the "Good Guys," and they still lose. And the French made "The Messenger," And Joan of Arc doesn't win in that one either.

The historical film is probably the next genera, where the "Bad Guy" wins. For example, in "Intolerance," the "Bad Guys" or intolerance wins in three of the four stories. Only in the modern story does tolerance win out.

More examples include: "Lady Jane," "Nicholas and Alexanderia," and "Swing Kids."

Otheriwise, these films have not been mentioned: "Rosemary's Baby," "Stephen King's Night Flyer," and "1984."

That is if there are any winners at all in the film. In "The Terror" w/ Boris Karloff and Jack Nicholson, the only one still alive at the end of the film is Nicholson. All the others have lost their lives.

The evil soul collector, Jack Ferriman (Desmond Harrington) in GHOST SHIP is seen at the end of the movie on his way to repeat the whole "Night of slaughter" situation and collecting more souls of another luxury liner.