Oppenheimer is Nolan's worst film
I didn't like the film at all.
For me, the next post is my question....what would you, or anybody else for that matter, prefer it to be and how would you re-write history? I've seen comments about adding emotionally appealing elements that are not part of the actual story and the question about why it has to stick to history and these somewhat baffle me....kinda like the Civil War story where the South wins at Gettysburg, revisionist stories about documentable events. The historian in me bristles at that, especially since this IS such a pivotal event that has been written about many times.
I guess, I think that for some people, this is just not the movie or story for them. Like it or not, it happened, and it's a story that has huge consequences on a daily basis, even now. Tossing in some non-canonical events for script purposes opens up a can of worms about just what should be added to the story.
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I'll try to answer your post...Like you, I'm fascinated by the history of Oppenheimer, the Manhattan Project, the communist espionage, the 'red scare', the human equation to end WWII by being first to make a weapon of mass destruction, the eventual falling out of favor of Oppenheimer the man and so much more. The truth is indeed stranger than fiction and one helluva story.
Rewrite history? Did someone say they wanted that in the movie? I don't want that. I can tell you how I would have preferred the story to be told. I'll post some of my thoughts on this:
I'm late to the party but I watched Oppenheimer last night. To quote a fellow MoFo, Meh.
If I hadn't previously spent hours upon hours watching documentaries about J. Robert Oppenheimer, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, Trinity and the Atomic Energy security hearings, I would've been confused as to what in the hell was going on in this movie. I bet I know more about Oppenheimer than most of the people who went to see this and yet I was still confused by Nolan's film!
With three hours you'd think Nolan could give some depth and soul to Oppenheimer the man and to the people who were closest to him. But no, Nolan gives us an overly long flashy movie-trailer, with lots of visuals and wall to wall sound, but with little depth and even less emotional reflection. Scenes start in the middle and then vanish as Nolan does his Nolan-trick of non linear story telling. Scenes have no beginning, no end and so have little emotional weight...I will say Robert Downey Jr was nothing short of amazing, one of the best screen transformations and acting transformations I've seen in a movie. Cillian Murphy was decent, but mostly his 'channeling' of Oppenheimer relied on looking wide eyed like a mystic with a hang over. Murphy was fine but that's all. The score was overpowering but who cares as there's not 90 minutes of good stuff in this 3 hour show-boat.
This is part of the award winning, American Experience TV series that is on PBS. This particular episode is a 1h 51min recounting of the early life of J. Robert Oppenheimer with the primary focus on the actual trail transcripts of 1954 when Oppenheimer was interrogated a total of 27 hours by a committee investigating alleged communist ties.
Actor David Strathairn (who played Oppenheimer in the movie Day One) recreates the closed hearing trial by reading directly taken from the originally transcripts. Plus we get the the usual still photos with voice over narration that is effectively done. I thought this was excellent! Well rounded and detailed without spending too much time on the actual Manhattan Project as this is about the political downfall of Oppenheimer after WWII.
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The Day After Trinity (1981)
Documentary
My problem isn't with being bored by the story of Oppenheimer, I'm bored with Nolan. I've never been a fan of his film making style and I think he covered a weak script by using flashy editing tricks and a mega over powerful score.
...what would you, or anybody else for that matter, prefer it [Oppenheimer] to be and how would you re-write history?
Oppenheimer (2023)
I'm late to the party but I watched Oppenheimer last night. To quote a fellow MoFo, Meh.
If I hadn't previously spent hours upon hours watching documentaries about J. Robert Oppenheimer, Los Alamos, Oak Ridge, Trinity and the Atomic Energy security hearings, I would've been confused as to what in the hell was going on in this movie. I bet I know more about Oppenheimer than most of the people who went to see this and yet I was still confused by Nolan's film!
With three hours you'd think Nolan could give some depth and soul to Oppenheimer the man and to the people who were closest to him. But no, Nolan gives us an overly long flashy movie-trailer, with lots of visuals and wall to wall sound, but with little depth and even less emotional reflection. Scenes start in the middle and then vanish as Nolan does his Nolan-trick of non linear story telling. Scenes have no beginning, no end and so have little emotional weight...I will say Robert Downey Jr was nothing short of amazing, one of the best screen transformations and acting transformations I've seen in a movie. Cillian Murphy was decent, but mostly his 'channeling' of Oppenheimer relied on looking wide eyed like a mystic with a hang over. Murphy was fine but that's all. The score was overpowering but who cares as there's not 90 minutes of good stuff in this 3 hour show-boat.
American Experience: Trials of Robert Oppenheimer (2009)
This is part of the award winning, American Experience TV series that is on PBS. This particular episode is a 1h 51min recounting of the early life of J. Robert Oppenheimer with the primary focus on the actual trail transcripts of 1954 when Oppenheimer was interrogated a total of 27 hours by a committee investigating alleged communist ties.
Actor David Strathairn (who played Oppenheimer in the movie Day One) recreates the closed hearing trial by reading directly taken from the originally transcripts. Plus we get the the usual still photos with voice over narration that is effectively done. I thought this was excellent! Well rounded and detailed without spending too much time on the actual Manhattan Project as this is about the political downfall of Oppenheimer after WWII.
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You can watch it legally on PBS (though you might need to be in the U.S.)
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexp...s/oppenheimer/
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexp...s/oppenheimer/
The Day After Trinity (1981)
Documentary
After watching Fat Man and Little Boy I wanted to learn more about Los Alamos and Robert Oppenheimer. I found this excellent documentary made in 1981. The Day After Trinity interviews scientist who worked at Los Alamos including Frank Oppenheimer who worked with his famous brother on the 'gadget'. There's no reenactments, no historical experts giving their opinions, just honest interviews with people who were there at Los Alamos and others who knew Oppenheimer personally. This doc gave me insight into the real story and conflicts at Los Alamos and into the type of man Robert Oppenheimer was...Oh and I learned that his funny hat is called a Pork Pie hat.
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I dunno what film people are watching where they just see a closeup, rather than the mountain of moral weight and numinous fear of a man who made one of the most dangerous and important decisions in human history, but to each their own.
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I dunno what film people are watching where they just see a closeup, rather than the mountain of moral weight and numinous fear of a man who made one of the most dangerous and important decisions in human history, but to each their own.
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Yeah, I think a lot of the criticisms of Murphy's performance are "all he does are making close ups into the lens", but I think this is a very narrow way to simplify his performance. His acting and the emotional weight he feels for his actions during the war and how his country betrayed him are all one and the same. I don't think it's hard to figure out what the reason for his facial expressions are and, though I don't care a whole lot about acting, I think Murphy's face conveys all there is to be said about his character. Yes, part of his performance involves close up shots, but why stop analyzing his performance there?
But Nolan isn't David Lean, and the movie remains a missed opportunity to explore one of the most enigmatic and contradictory historical figures of the 20th century.... just imagine if Lean and Robert Bolt could have tackled this one.
I read American Prometheus, I don't think there was another choice on how to play the character. Even the people who knew him best believed he was impossible to understand at times, full of contradictory traits.
But Nolan isn't David Lean, and the movie remains a missed opportunity to explore one of the most enigmatic and contradictory historical figures of the 20th century.... just imagine if Lean and Robert Bolt could have tackled this one.
But Nolan isn't David Lean, and the movie remains a missed opportunity to explore one of the most enigmatic and contradictory historical figures of the 20th century.... just imagine if Lean and Robert Bolt could have tackled this one.
Regardless, my post wasn't so much about the character Oppenheimer but about Murphy's performance.
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Christopher Nolan is the new Steven Spielberg where it is now fashionable to disregard any artistic merit he may have simply because his movies are crowd pleasers, box office draws, and are often award winners.
What’s that saying? Familiarity breeds contempt.
What’s that saying? Familiarity breeds contempt.
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Yeah, I think a lot of the criticisms of Murphy's performance are "all he does are making close ups into the lens", but I think this is a very narrow way to simplify his performance...
Image if Nolan had made Lawrence of Arabia, I'd say he'd ruin it, others might say it's amazing. It's all in what one wants. I know you say you don't care much about acting as it's not the most important part of a movie to you, fair enough. To me acting is paramount and visual flair can be a distraction.
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Christopher Nolan is the new Steven Spielberg where it is now fashionable to disregard any artistic merit he may have simply because his movies are crowd pleasers, box office draws, and are often award winners.
What’s that saying? Familiarity breeds contempt.
What’s that saying? Familiarity breeds contempt.
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If that is directed at me you're wrong. I've disliked every Nolan film I've seen except the one about the two stage magicians. With Spielberg I love a lot of his films and dislike others that he's made. War Horse and A.I. I'm looking at you. For me it has nothing to do with how box office popular a director is or isn't.
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I should say, it's not Murphy's fault for the 'close ups into the lens.' Murphy is a capable actor. The fault is in the director who favors flare and what arose out of the music video style of movie making. Alot of today's audience is use to that style of film making so that's probably why Nolan is so well liked. But I don't like his directorial style.
Image if Nolan had made Lawrence of Arabia, I'd say he'd ruin it, others might say it's amazing. It's all in what one wants. I know you say you don't care much about acting as it's not the most important part of a movie to you, fair enough. To me acting is paramount and visual flair can be a distraction.
Image if Nolan had made Lawrence of Arabia, I'd say he'd ruin it, others might say it's amazing. It's all in what one wants. I know you say you don't care much about acting as it's not the most important part of a movie to you, fair enough. To me acting is paramount and visual flair can be a distraction.
I felt bad for my Mom though as she kept covering her ears every five minutes
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It’s directed in a lot of people. Maybe not including you, if you never liked any of his films to begin with.
***I just remember I watched like 10 minutes of his Batman movie and walked away from it. Not a fan of his.
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The music video/prolonged trailer style won't work for everyone, I would imagine, but my main takeaway was how the film was reminiscent of Z with how much gravity the technical elements brought to the film. I've had issues with Nolan's loud sound effects in the past, but I finally warmed up to them with this film. I'm not sure if it would work as well with a rewatch now that I can't watch it in the theaters anymore, but I definitely had a real blast with it in the theaters.
I felt bad for my Mom though as she kept covering her ears every five minutes
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I don't have the time to do this, but if you look for post by me where I mention Nolan I'm pretty sure you'll find me dissing him way back when. Oh the movie I like of his is The Prestige, which if I remember correctly wasn't a typical Nolan non linear, abbreviated scenes, movie.
***I just remember I watched like 10 minutes of his Batman movie and walked away from it. Not a fan of his.
***I just remember I watched like 10 minutes of his Batman movie and walked away from it. Not a fan of his.
Some of the criticisms, however, that I’ve seen are the kind I’ve seen levied against Spielberg before.
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...Some of the criticisms, however, that I’ve seen are the kind I’ve seen levied against Spielberg before.
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So, I’ll preface this with the understanding that not every direction will hell with everyone. Heck, I’m not a big fan of Fulci or Cassavetes, so I get it. The difference I’m seeing here is, while I can see the artistic merit behind Fulci and Cassavetes, my issues are with other aspects of their films. It doesn’t seem like many are willing to acknowledge much in the way of Nolan’s abilities. *
His films are particularly good at capturing the inner turmoil of his main protagonist. Guilt is usually a main theme within what is essentially, character studies. Batman’s survivors guilt and ensuing trauma in The Dark Knight Trilogy.*
Oppenheimer’s guilt over the mass murder of an entire city -twice!! The way he pivots from a confident physicist, ready to change the world, to a broken man who resembles a modern day Prometheus (bringing it full circle with its literary source) his psyche is his torture, rather then the proverbial vulture (?) that rather then pecking at his innards, pecks at his very soul.*
The look in his face, when he says “There’s blood on my hand…” conveys far more emotion than one seems willing to admit. It’s in the eyes. *
RDJ also gives easily one of his best performances, as the conniving and egocentric Strauss, whose manipulations backfire, leaving him hoisted by his own petard.*
I have not seen Interstellar yet. It’s been ages since I’ve seen Memento, but remember thinking bf it was great 24 years ago, and is due for a rewatch. *
Dunkirk, Insomnia and The Prestige are good, but probably could sue a rewatch each. Tenet is good, but gets confusing and, surprisingly predictable, as I was able to figure out quite a bit of the supposed surprises during the film. Like The Prestige and some of his other films, I can see issues with what some have decried about his third act issues.
His films are particularly good at capturing the inner turmoil of his main protagonist. Guilt is usually a main theme within what is essentially, character studies. Batman’s survivors guilt and ensuing trauma in The Dark Knight Trilogy.*
Oppenheimer’s guilt over the mass murder of an entire city -twice!! The way he pivots from a confident physicist, ready to change the world, to a broken man who resembles a modern day Prometheus (bringing it full circle with its literary source) his psyche is his torture, rather then the proverbial vulture (?) that rather then pecking at his innards, pecks at his very soul.*
The look in his face, when he says “There’s blood on my hand…” conveys far more emotion than one seems willing to admit. It’s in the eyes. *
RDJ also gives easily one of his best performances, as the conniving and egocentric Strauss, whose manipulations backfire, leaving him hoisted by his own petard.*
I have not seen Interstellar yet. It’s been ages since I’ve seen Memento, but remember thinking bf it was great 24 years ago, and is due for a rewatch. *
Dunkirk, Insomnia and The Prestige are good, but probably could sue a rewatch each. Tenet is good, but gets confusing and, surprisingly predictable, as I was able to figure out quite a bit of the supposed surprises during the film. Like The Prestige and some of his other films, I can see issues with what some have decried about his third act issues.
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I dunno what film people are watching where they just see a closeup, rather than the mountain of moral weight and numinous fear of a man who made one of the most dangerous and important decisions in human history, but to each their own.
Somebody was going to build one, sooner or later; the principle of how it works was "out". I think it's best that it was the US, at least if you don't trust Stalin and think Hitler was horrific. It's the lesser of 3 evils.
Oppenheimer was in the middle of all this as well as the middle of the whole Red Scare craziness. In regard to real images I've seen over the years (wearing my historian costume) most of what I saw in the movies were good do-overs of the real ones. His gaunt physique, baggy suit, bug-eyes and that iconic hat really fit.
I don't think anybody who was involved in the project ever completely got past it, but they also realized just how this deal with the devil happened. It's really difficult to see how it would have ended differently that wasn't worse. Somebody was going to get one (and then more) and somebody was going to use it. The movie portrayed just a part of this drama. Oppenheimer was the most visible character and, considering his fate, the one most people familiar with that era would remember.
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I should say, it's not Murphy's fault for the 'close ups into the lens.' Murphy is a capable actor. The fault is in the director who favors flare and what arose out of the music video style of movie making. Alot of today's audience is use to that style of film making so that's probably why Nolan is so well liked. But I don't like his directorial style....
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