X-Men 3: The Bad Guys All Wear Black Hats

→ in
Tools    





Registered User
X-Men 3 was a good movie don't get me wrong, but I did not enjoy it as much as X-Men 2, or even X-Men 1. I do not know if it was the loss of the director that did it, but it was definitely missing a certain something.

There is a tendency in movies, or other forms of story telling, to make the characters archetypical, the bad guys all wear black hats and the good guys are all blonde with blue eyes.

One of the interesting things with the X-Men Series, to me anyways, has been the challenge of this archetype. Magneto's bunch don't look evil, Xavier's bunch don't look good. Nightcrawler for instance is a very spiritual man and yet he looks like a devil.

This differs greatly from most other movies where the bad guys all are scruffy, rotten looking individuals, or in the case of the older Batman's, freakshow clown goon things.

In a movie where the central theme is one of tolerance and not judging a person's character based on superficial things I find it disheartening that with this incarnation they seemed to have forgotten this detail.

In this movie all the bad guys (Magneto's team), other than the main characters, look like goth biker punks. Did they pick up all their extras at a Marilyn Manson concert? I don't know, but to me it made the movie less intelligent.

I feel that they also missed out on some of the character development they had last time. They could have really explored the Angel character this time, but they did not. Really there was no angst ridden character like we've seen in movies past, just the same group.

On a personal note I was also hoping to see more of colossus, and despite being part of the main group his lines and action sequences were non-existent.

Overall I'd give it 3 stars. The action was good, the plot was good, it failed a little bit on the execution I think and I definitely think that they sacrificed too much of the character development.

Lets face it, any idiot can make a comic book movie without character development, but it is the character development that makes movies like Spider-man & X-men so good.

FYI, while some major happenings occur that will forever change the characters, they did not close the door on another sequel.
__________________
Chris Beasley
CB Swords - Get LOTR replica swords.
Coupon Codes - Get deals on Amazon, Dell, Gateway, and more.



Sci-Fi-Guy's Avatar
Beware The Probe!
I saw it today and I thought it was actually better than the other 2 movies.

I do agree that both Angel and Colossus deserved more airtime but if they do make another film (and I can't see them stopping a cash cow like X-movies) I assume both the bird-man and tin-man as well as Kitty Pryde, will get more time to shine.

The one thing that I loved most about this one was the whole story really flowed like a real comic-book story.

I know alot of fans are upset with certain deaths in this movie, or Dark Phoenix's lack of flames, and the fact that Juggernaut is now a mutant but I've been an X-men comic fan for years and I wasn't dissapointed at all.
__________________
Fear the Probe!



Originally Posted by Sci-Fi-Guy
I do agree that both Angel and Colossus deserved more airtime
That is disappointing actually.

Juggernaut is now a mutant but I've been an X-men comic fan for years and I wasn't dissapointed at all.
What was Juggernaut before. Just a normal man?



The idea of character developement is going to be tough to juxtapose from comic to screen in the X-Men series. There are so many mutants and so little time. Spin offs are going to be a big thing in the theatrical future I think, just like it was for the comics. If only they keep up the quality they have thus far I think comic/movie fans willbe pleased. The "crossover" has got to be coming soon I hope. Wolverine/Hulk would be great, just like it was in the comics.
__________________
“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton



Escape Juggernaut was just a very big man in an Iron suit. Im not sure of his backstory though
__________________
"A good film is when the price of the dinner, the theater admission and the babysitter were worth it."
- Alfred Hitchcock



Sci-Fi-Guy's Avatar
Beware The Probe!
Originally Posted by Escape
What was Juggernaut before. Just a normal man?
Juggy got his powers through magic and was never a mutant.
But from one scene in this movie they HAD to make him a mutant or the scene wouldn't have worked.
Actually, if they hadn't made him a mutant Magneto wouldn't have bothered recruiting him in the first place.
They could have used Blob though.

(EDIT)
I almost forgot...
Don't leave when the credits start rolling if you want to see the final scene.



Piledriver's Avatar
Registered User
Originally Posted by Escape
That is disappointing actually.



What was Juggernaut before. Just a normal man?
Juggernaut, or Cain Marko, received his powers from a mystical stone he found in a cave. He is also Prof. Xavier's half brother. I'm sorry I know that.
__________________
"Vader...You Must Confront Vader..."



Originally Posted by Escape
That is disappointing actually.



What was Juggernaut before. Just a normal man?
juggs was xaivier's step brothers who finds a crystal that turned him into the juggaurnat



Just got back from seeing it. While it was not up to par with X-men and X2 it was still damn good. The end action sequences were amazing and I really liked the story. While yes the new characters were not very developed it was still a great ride and if this is in fact the conclusion to the X-men films Im happy with the series. Its hard to talk about this movie without giving away any key plot points. But this movie had on hilarious line from the Juggernaut. After being attacked by an X-men he scream "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM, IM THE JUGGERNAUT B****" anyone who has scene the video of the dubbed over episode from the X-men cartoon knows why this is so funny. And yes stay until after the credits its worth it



I too went to the 12:00 AM showing and I on the other hand think the movie was pretty bad. The actions was mediocre, and guess what, they screw up the story line. I am a fane of the comics and animated series so I was expecting a least Apocalypse to show up or something. Okay, okay, I know they had to cut back a little on the story for it to fit in, but come on man.....(not to spoil it).....just watch it yourself and you will know what I am talking about. Also, they try to tell a little of everyone’s story in this movie, and I believe they could of left a lot of that out and concentrated on the story itself. Trying to introduce every character is a little misleading from the actual story.

Another thing, where the hell is Gambit? You can't tell me that Hollywood cannot find a Cajon talking poker player? Give me a break. And why does Beast look like a giant smerf?

Anyway, I guess the movie is worth seeing, There are some cool fan scenes and the Juggernaut is the best character in this movie by far.

Feel free to argue with me on anything.



Arresting your development
Originally Posted by justincarstarphen
And why does Beast look like a giant smerf?
Smurf? You mean the one hundred little blue Hobbits that sport white Kangos... nibbling on shrooms all having sexual relations with the only one woman smurf in the whole village? I hope she wears her safe color.

Anyways, I thought Frasier looked more like this in X3...

no?
__________________
Our real discoveries come from chaos, from going to the place that looks wrong and stupid and foolish.
Embrace the chaos and sour adversity, for wise men say it is the wisest course.






Originally Posted by The Taxi Driver
Just got back from seeing it. While it was not up to par with X-men and X2 it was still damn good.
I enjoyed it too. And I'm thankful that XMen maintained its quality throughout three films. That doesn't always happen, example The Matrix. I'll probably always prefer the first movie since I'm a first movie kinda guy but they each have their own style and other viewers might prefer the second or third in the series.

There's been some talk about the lack of character development but I'm not sure I agree. In some ways, we saw more of the character of Jean Grey, Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue and even Magneto than we did in the previous films. This movie was not all action. There were several personal, psychological things going on to keep one interested; the relationship between Wolverine and Jean, the "morality" and necessity of curing the mutant gene, Rogue's longing for human touch and Magneto (is he defending the rights of mutants or does he have a God complex and a love affair with his power?)

Some shocking turns (at least, I wasn't prepared for them) but it takes something shocking to elicit a big response. And it was time for a few shocking things and big responses.

Wolverine: still great but he seems to have lost some of that hard edge that was in the first movie. The old Wolverine might have questioned which side he should be on a little more or just not give a damn at all.

Jean Grey/Phoenix: I'm a big Famke Janssen fan and she makes one badass Goddess of Infinite Power. I only wish there had been a little more of the "softer" Dr Grey. Her brief emotional scenes with Wolverine were powerful and some of the better scenes in the movie.

Storm: Halle looks great and when she's floating in the sky, hair blowing and eyes blazing, conjuring up the elements of nature; she's a sight to behold. But...despite the Oscar, I don't find her a great actress. Even for a comic book movie. She's good, just not great. And certainly not in the league of Ian McKellen.

Beast: Had doubts going in, thought Grammer did an excellent job going out. He provided some good humor and enjoyed his transformation from mild mannered diplomat to uh, blue haired ass kicker.

Magneto and Professor Xavier: The glue that holds Xmen together. These two elevate Xmen from a simple comic book romp like Fantastic Four to something far more interesting and credible. And the criticism about character development again: Magneto has at least four "character revealing" scenes I can think of and McKellen handles them beautifully.

Rogue: Anna solidified my opinion of her as a good supporting character. Will she ever command a leading role? BTW, the girl who could walk through walls...very cute and probably stole the second banana role from Anna.

The action: very good. Magneto and the bridge was stunning. It takes quite a bit to be impressive in the cgi age and that was. All the action was entertaining. But all action and no substance always leaves me cold. Thankfully, I believe there was plenty of substance here.

I was not disappointed. Not perfect but still one of the best comics brought to screen, along with Spiderman, various versions of Batman and hopefully, the new Superman.
__________________
My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius, commander of the Armies of the North, General of the Felix Legions, loyal servant to the true emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next.




Randomly visiting for now
Originally Posted by Anonymous Last
Smurf? You mean the one hundred little blue Hobbits that sport white Kangos... nibbling on shrooms all having sexual relations with the only one woman smurf in the whole village? I hope she wears her safe color.

Anyways, I thought Frasier looked more like this in X3...

no?
ahh smurfs.....good times......I think I was in love with smurfette. I don't know why though I was scared of girls.....they had girl germs but then the other day I made this silly smurf joke and the teenagers I was talking to had no idea what I was talking about. These kids were 14!.....I felt old.....I'm only 19, I'm not over the hill I swear



Originally Posted by Twain
I enjoyed it too. And I'm thankful that XMen maintained its quality throughout three films. That doesn't always happen, example The Matrix. I'll probably always prefer the first movie since I'm a first movie kinda guy but they each have their own style and other viewers might prefer the second or third in the series.

There's been some talk about the lack of character development but I'm not sure I agree. In some ways, we saw more of the character of Jean Grey, Wolverine, Cyclops, Rogue and even Magneto than we did in the previous films. This movie was not all action. There were several personal, psychological things going on to keep one interested; the relationship between Wolverine and Jean, the "morality" and necessity of curing the mutant gene, Rogue's longing for human touch and Magneto (is he defending the rights of mutants or does he have a God complex and a love affair with his power?)

Some shocking turns (at least, I wasn't prepared for them) but it takes something shocking to elicit a big response. And it was time for a few shocking things and big responses.

Wolverine: still great but he seems to have lost some of that hard edge that was in the first movie. The old Wolverine might have questioned which side he should be on a little more or just not give a damn at all.

Jean Grey/Phoenix: I'm a big Famke Janssen fan and she makes one badass Goddess of Infinite Power. I only wish there had been a little more of the "softer" Dr Grey. Her brief emotional scenes with Wolverine were powerful and some of the better scenes in the movie.

Storm: Halle looks great and when she's floating in the sky, hair blowing and eyes blazing, conjuring up the elements of nature; she's a sight to behold. But...despite the Oscar, I don't find her a great actress. Even for a comic book movie. She's good, just not great. And certainly not in the league of Ian McKellen.

Beast: Had doubts going in, thought Grammer did an excellent job going out. He provided some good humor and enjoyed his transformation from mild mannered diplomat to uh, blue haired ass kicker.

Magneto and Professor Xavier: The glue that holds Xmen together. These two elevate Xmen from a simple comic book romp like Fantastic Four to something far more interesting and credible. And the criticism about character development again: Magneto has at least four "character revealing" scenes I can think of and McKellen handles them beautifully.

Rogue: Anna solidified my opinion of her as a good supporting character. Will she ever command a leading role? BTW, the girl who could walk through walls...very cute and probably stole the second banana role from Anna.

The action: very good. Magneto and the bridge was stunning. It takes quite a bit to be impressive in the cgi age and that was. All the action was entertaining. But all action and no substance always leaves me cold. Thankfully, I believe there was plenty of substance here.

I was not disappointed. Not perfect but still one of the best comics brought to screen, along with Spiderman, various versions of Batman and hopefully, the new Superman.
The lack of character development me and im pretty sure everyone else was talking about was towards the new characters like Angel was set up to have a really big role yet he shows up maybe 3 times in the movie. Yes it is refreshing to have seen all 3 X-men films have been good.

My favorite is definitly X2 because I think the first one did a very job good dealing with the stories for the characters it was really just an introduction to X2. X2 was able to tell the story of wolverien and Stryker without sacrificing any of the kick ass action scenes an X-men movie needs. So I think part one had alot of substance but not too much action(witch is fine but I was dissapointed after expecting Wolverine to go berserker style on some people and it never came). Part 2 was a perfect combo of both story telling and action sequences. and I think Part 3 was a little more action oriented but it still had a great story to tell.

X-men has always been my favorite comic series and they are also my favorite comic based films. Glad to see Ratner didn't do to it what Joel Schumacher did to Batman



To begin with, X3 seemed a lot like they'd made a movie from individual sequences, it didn't feel coherent or gel very well, that along with Cyclops
WARNING: "X3" spoilers below
after being a pansy in the last, finally looking a bit like he would kick some ass, only to have implicitly killed
.

There were a lot of silly things in the plot and as for character development, Angel was a complete waste, i'd rather they had just Rogue take his role (btw, Rogue getting worse by every film- i'm a fan of the cartoon and wanted to see the hardcore Rogue- and Gambit- didn't they have Lost's Sawyer for him?). The action was great, though didn't seem to have the scale or epic impact it was going for. Still Beast tore it up in the battles and heck, i was even happy with Vinnie Jones, well not disappointed.
__________________




chicagofrog's Avatar
history *is* moralizing
Originally Posted by Sci-Fi-Guy
Juggy got his powers through magic and was never a mutant.
and don't forget he actually is Charles Xavier's brother!





man, those kids watching a movie without any (active/autonom) interest for the historical background... (i don't mean *you* Sci-Fi-Guy)
__________________
We're a generation of men raised by women. I'm wondering if another woman is really the answer we need.



There are those who call me...Tim.
I wrote this on another forum last night. I'll just spoiler the whole thing, though I don't know how many spoilers there actually are in it.
WARNING: "X-Men 3" spoilers below
Here are my thoughts. Excuse me if it seems poorly written and all over the place, these are just my thoughts on the film, and not a true review. Plus I have 2 bandaged fingers causing me a great deal of pain, so I'm not exactly in one of my best moods.
*Possible Spoilers*

I saw it yesterday. So disappointing, if anything it's only served to remind me just how good the first two were. In fact, having just watched the second film again just now, I get the impression that nobody at Fox made that same effort. This film feels so disconnected from the first two that at times I felt it was part of a separate trilogy.
Established characters behave strangely different than before (this is not part of the plot, just lazy story telling) and the dialogue in this film serves no purpose than to move whatever plot there is, along. Any witty banter in this film occurs during the films numerous (and admittedly, epic) fight scenes, thereby crossing off another lazy film cliche from the list, along with the sub-plot of the reluctant hero learning the benefit of team work, and the love triangle between Bobby, Rogue and Kitty (the one who can walk through walls), resulting in Rogue questioning her powers and turning to the new "Mutant Cure".
These issues, of course, are barely touched on. There are far too many action sequences and scenes of destruction to get through, for anyone to worry about a little thing like "character development".

It get's worse. Within the first half of this film 2 major characters get killed off for what seemed like no good reason other than to advance the plot, and not once was there any real emotional pull when it happened. In X-Men 2, Jean Grey died to save her team and her friends, and bid a final farewell to Scott through Professor X. They even had room for a prayer, courtesy of Nightcrawler, and a mention in a speach at the end. In this film, one character get's a 2 minute funeral and a boring speach, while the other is, laughably, forgotten about completely.
Oh yeah, another dies later on as well. These mutants, they're dropping like flies!

It's not all bad news, though. The fight scenes seen in the trailer live up to all the hype (and then some), and a scene early on in the film (set 20 years before the events of this film) establishing the friendship and early partnership between the younger Eric (Ian McKellan) and Charles (Patrick Stewart) is one of my favourite scenes of any film this year (and if the rumor I heard was true, a truly stunning example of CGI being put to good use).
Also, although most of the newer characters are given about as much screen time as glorified extras, newcomer Kelsey Grammar at least makes the most of his lack of screen time and creates a truly likeable and memorable "Beast". He truly grasps the role with both hands (or are they paws?) and develops it as fully as he can. The scene where he first encounters the source of the mutant cure (a boy named Leech, is it?) generates sympathy and understanding of his plight and perhaps yearning to be "normal" again.

Of course, if this had been any other comic book franchise I wouldn't mind, but the fact that it was X-Men, the first true revival of the comic book movie genre and what I consider to be the smartest of the lot, this kind of dumbing down has left me cold (please note, I've never read a comic other than the Beano, Dandy, or one issue of Sonic the Hedghog when I was 8. I'm just referring to the films).

However, this film is enormous fun and won't leave you feeling bored, and there were occasional moments of old X-Men brilliance.

But it's not the finale I wanted.

I'd give it a 3/5. Not bad, but not that good either.

Feel free to disagree with me or correct me on anything, but I don't feel up to a debate at the moment. Handbags and nails will have to do instead
__________________
"When I was younger, I always wanted to be somebody. Now that I'm older, I realise I should've been more specific."



thedeal526's Avatar
Registered User
My 2 cents, I think the first X-Men film is the best in what I consider to be one of the greatest trilogies of all time. Obviously there will be spin-offs, where we can only hope characters like Angel will be further developed. I'll never truly accept Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, and I believe the Magneto character could've had a more menacing look. I also wonder why Gambit wasn't used instead of Iceman as Rogue's love interest. Other than that, I think the three X-Men films presented three good stories and some great acting (who would've thought Kelsey Grammer could go from a psychiatrist hanging out at a bar to a blue furry mutant so seamlessly?).

WARNING: "X-Men 3" spoilers below
I just wonder why Mystique lost her power and reverted to her human self was that simply for the movies? I mean I always thought Mystique was born blue like Night Crawler, and if she has lost her powers, she would remain blue, just unable to morph into anything else.
__________________
Why kill you now Prince of Troy, with no one here to see you fall???