Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi
I feel like whatever side of the lover/hater fence you're on, even Siskel and Ebert would be standing here like "Woah, chill tf out, Internet, even we don't get this uptight about movies!!"
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Ultimately, I think I liked individual parts of it though those don’t balance out the parts I didn’t like. It just never came alive like The Force Awakens did, which had plenty of flaws but power through them with certain something. A certain something that’s missing here.
The ending is really quite good, however.
The ending is really quite good, however.
Just for the record, I like Luke's changes. I know I'll never change anyone's mind, I only want to explain my position:
30 years will change a person, otherwise they're static and they'll become stale. I would never defend the prequels, but Obi-Wan's changes between 3 and 4 were necessary for development, same with Luke. I totally buy a reckless young man becoming a cynical old man when he feels he messed something up and did more harm than good. Makes perfect sense to me.
30 years will change a person, otherwise they're static and they'll become stale. I would never defend the prequels, but Obi-Wan's changes between 3 and 4 were necessary for development, same with Luke. I totally buy a reckless young man becoming a cynical old man when he feels he messed something up and did more harm than good. Makes perfect sense to me.
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Yeah, I thought the decision was sound. I can even see how Johnson might have felt moments in OT would inform such changes (Luke didn’t yub nub, after all).
Of course she does. Military leaders don't generally share high-level strategy with subordinates at all, let alone anything with an element of deception, let alone with people who disobey orders.
Also, the bombers shouldn't be such an issue for fans, if gravity is an issue then so should any space battle sound effects
Speed? They're carrying bombs, bombs! Of course they're slow lol
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I enjoyed it. I understand why many fans are not super pumped with it, but I like the risks the movie took and I can respect the changes they made to certain characters.
I did have a couple of issues with the movie, though:
1. The Finn storyline was completely unnecessary. I just wanted to get to the other stuff whenever they were on the screen.
2. Some of the comedy was entirely out of place. Most of it was okay, but I was taken completely out of the movie a few times.
I look forward to seeing it again.
I did have a couple of issues with the movie, though:
1. The Finn storyline was completely unnecessary. I just wanted to get to the other stuff whenever they were on the screen.
2. Some of the comedy was entirely out of place. Most of it was okay, but I was taken completely out of the movie a few times.
I look forward to seeing it again.
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Um,oops...maybe audience scores are just as bogus as I thought?
Last edited by Yoda; 12-18-17 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: Fixed broken image tags.
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Ultimately, I think I liked individual parts of it though those don’t balance out the parts I didn’t like. It just never came alive like The Force Awakens did, which had plenty of flaws but power through them with certain something. A certain something that’s missing here.
The ending is really quite good, however.
The ending is really quite good, however.
Ok sure Emperor wasn't mentioned in 4, I had forgotten. Snoke was interesting and powerful, and now he has gone with absolutely nothing about his own backstory or how he came to lead the FO. He was an obvious candidate for a Luke showdown in this or next. Now the FO is a joke, emotional whiney brat Kylo and pantomime General Hux. At least the scenes in the OT with the Empire were basically all serious without lame attempts at humour every minute.
Easier to attack someone's debate style rather than defend the indefensible I guess.
Why doesn't Hux send a couple of ships or another fleet to jump ahead of the Rebels?
Why those silly bombers that have to be over target in zero G?
Why does purple hair Admiral hide her intentions from Poe?
Why does purple hair Admiral wait for loads of ships to be destroyed before pulling off her Hyperspace suicide attack?
Why do the large numbers of fighters that can attack the fleet have to be pulled back again?
Why did we need this entire segment or the weak casino town subplot AT ALL this film?
Why doesn't Hux send a couple of ships or another fleet to jump ahead of the Rebels?
Why those silly bombers that have to be over target in zero G?
Why does purple hair Admiral hide her intentions from Poe?
Why does purple hair Admiral wait for loads of ships to be destroyed before pulling off her Hyperspace suicide attack?
Why do the large numbers of fighters that can attack the fleet have to be pulled back again?
Why did we need this entire segment or the weak casino town subplot AT ALL this film?
Quite a huge difference. Star Wars is like a Religion for millions of devoted fans and their faces have just been spat in.
Force Awakens made $2 Billion. How much will this make?$1Billion? Less? they can forget about those repeat viewings from the legions of pissed off fans, and the word of mouth and bad reviews will prevent lots of casuals from bothering as well.
What fringe groups boycotted prev 2 due to diversity complaints?
Force Awakens made $2 Billion. How much will this make?$1Billion? Less? they can forget about those repeat viewings from the legions of pissed off fans, and the word of mouth and bad reviews will prevent lots of casuals from bothering as well.
What fringe groups boycotted prev 2 due to diversity complaints?
The fringe groups in question...there was some MRA group called Return to Kings that boycotted TFA and some white supremacists cited Rogue One as "anti-white". We'll see if the entire generation of spat-upon fans makes more of a dint in The Last Jedi's profits than they do.
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The online discussion for this movie is so exhausting that I think I have a better understanding of Luke’s decisions.
Yeah, you said "interesting and powerful" last time but you haven't explained why exactly he is an interesting character in his own right. He's not a character so much as a plot device whose only true importance to the narrative is through his connection to Kylo. Referring to him as an "obvious candidate for a showdown" only makes me happier that he got treated the way he did because f*ck having to wait for that to happen.
The weakness of this film for me is that it underplays what is by far its strongest character/plot in Kylo. We get that one scene between them(debatably the best of the film) and then very little else. Snoke is vastly less effective with Rey for me because her character is vastly weaker than Kylo's or indeed Luke's in Return of the Jedi. Almost everything that makes those scenes effective is down to Luke's story.
Whilst I think the film made the correct decision not too focus too much on Snoke's background I do think we were owed something. In the originals the Emperors background is easier to imagine without detail due to the setting yet Snoke's appearance and rise to me demands at least some explanation, it need not be that specific and could have been linked into more Kylo scenes.
Easier to complain about the technical shortcomings that inform the plot rather than process what they mean. Yoda already answered most of these questions satisfactorily, but if you're going to keep banging the drum about how fuel "didn't exist" in Star Wars before then I reserve the right to complain about Empire being terrible because hyperdrive never used to break down in Hope.
Again, we shall see what difference it makes in the long run, but you already had people complaining about TFA and Rogue One for doing this or not doing that so it begs the question as to how much this "entire generation" (and even then that's a very presumptuous way of referring to a group of indeterminate size) will actually affect the overall box office performance. As for the word-of-mouth, I do wonder how much of that is going to be a genuine reflection of what audiences think or how much of it is the especially angry "fans" messing with algorithms or whatever (which seems to be happening with the IMDb reviews section).
The fringe groups in question...there was some MRA group called Return to Kings that boycotted TFA and some white supremacists cited Rogue One as "anti-white". We'll see if the entire generation of spat-upon fans makes more of a dint in The Last Jedi's profits than they do.
Again, we shall see what difference it makes in the long run, but you already had people complaining about TFA and Rogue One for doing this or not doing that so it begs the question as to how much this "entire generation" (and even then that's a very presumptuous way of referring to a group of indeterminate size) will actually affect the overall box office performance. As for the word-of-mouth, I do wonder how much of that is going to be a genuine reflection of what audiences think or how much of it is the especially angry "fans" messing with algorithms or whatever (which seems to be happening with the IMDb reviews section).
The fringe groups in question...there was some MRA group called Return to Kings that boycotted TFA and some white supremacists cited Rogue One as "anti-white". We'll see if the entire generation of spat-upon fans makes more of a dint in The Last Jedi's profits than they do.
The last point feels a bit cheap to me looking to relate dislike to these films to extreme right wing views. Although actually even as someone very much on the liberal side I think theres a cynicism to TFA and TLJ(although not Rogue One) looking to used political debate as a shield and a publicity tool whilst actually having little or nothing new to say.
Honestly I really don't know whats going to happen long term but I do definitely sense that as with Trek around Into Darkness resentment is clearly starting to build beyond the Prequel/Lucas loyalists. Starwars is a bit different from Trek in that its appeal is wider but equally you could say its more specific fanbase is wider as well. Rogue One a film aimed mostly at that fanbase made over $500 million in the US last year. I do think Disney have a problem that there sequel films are built on very dodgy ground compared to the originals without the same thought put into setting and character.
Last edited by MoreOrLess; 12-18-17 at 03:06 AM.
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Yeah, you said "interesting and powerful" last time but you haven't explained why exactly he is an interesting character in his own right. He's not a character so much as a plot device whose only true importance to the narrative is through his connection to Kylo. Referring to him as an "obvious candidate for a showdown" only makes me happier that he got treated the way he did because f*ck having to wait for that to happen.
Easier to complain about the technical shortcomings that inform the plot rather than process what they mean. Yoda already answered most of these questions satisfactorily, but if you're going to keep banging the drum about how fuel "didn't exist" in Star Wars before then I reserve the right to complain about Empire being terrible because hyperdrive never used to break down in Hope.
Again, we shall see what difference it makes in the long run, but you already had people complaining about TFA and Rogue One for doing this or not doing that so it begs the question as to how much this "entire generation" (and even then that's a very presumptuous way of referring to a group of indeterminate size) will actually affect the overall box office performance. As for the word-of-mouth, I do wonder how much of that is going to be a genuine reflection of what audiences think or how much of it is the especially angry "fans" messing with algorithms or whatever (which seems to be happening with the IMDb reviews section).
I won't lie, I will be going to see Ep 9 with renewed hope. I will not however spend my money on any prequels about characters long gone that should be left alone. I felt before that Disney should be branching out into the future, they have a blank canvass and so far outside of Rey and Ren I don't see any characters capable of carrying their own movie, I hope this changes.
The fringe groups in question...there was some MRA group called Return to Kings that boycotted TFA and some white supremacists cited Rogue One as "anti-white". We'll see if the entire generation of spat-upon fans makes more of a dint in The Last Jedi's profits than they do.
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Just got back from seeing it...
That was... different.
Totally different tone and pace to the other movies.
Liked it though... was a little odd when Finn and Rose went on their adventure but other than that was ok.
Force Awakens was better.
That was... different.
Totally different tone and pace to the other movies.
Liked it though... was a little odd when Finn and Rose went on their adventure but other than that was ok.
Force Awakens was better.
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Resident Evil: Retribution was my one-pointer
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IMDB rating has been dropping to 7.9, which was expected for the opening weekend.
Give it a month or two, we will see the real user rating of this 'brilliant' movie.
Give it a month or two, we will see the real user rating of this 'brilliant' movie.
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I saw the film last night...here's my review (Full review with plot line and rating can be seen on my blog):
It’s been two years since we saw the official saga’s last entry, The Force Awakens, and it is well worth the wait. With Rian Johnson at the helm, the writer-director took a smart approach at bringing a film that is high on the level scales as in this reviewer’s opinion, the second best installment of the Star Wars saga (Sorry, but the best one still remains The Empire Strikes Back, episode five). Johnson wisely injected some beats of humor while keeping the saga alive with more action, drama, and most importantly revelations ready to set up Star Wars Episode IX.
There are two important plot points to look at when seeing this film. The first is the continuation of the battle between the Resistance and the First Order. In what is her final performance, Carrie Fisher could not have done a better job as General Leia Organa. While for a good portion of the film her character is incapacitated and replaced by Laura Dern’s Amilyn Holdo, Fisher truly makes the most of her screen time and a resounding round of applause is much needed for Fisher as well as that of Mark Hamill as the returning Luke Skywalker.
In the second important plot point, Skywalker has gone from hero to a conflicted soul looking for peace. However, with the support of some old friends, finds a sense of redemption when he teaches Rey, played by an excellent Daisy Ridley, the ways of the Jedi after he has failed teaching Kylo Ren, played this time by Adam Driver not so much as a spoiled brat but someone who now realizes what he is made of and how to unleash his potential.
Oscar Isaac and John Boyega continue their bromance as ace pilot Poe Dameron and reformed Stormtrooper Finn as they can be seen in a Han Solo-Lando Calrissian type of relationship without the sense of betrayal. Poe has become somewhat of a danger to himself at times soon learning a lesson in the process while Boyega wants to remain loyal to the Resistance. Kelly Marie Tran makes a welcome addition to the team as Rose Tico, with Veronica Ngo making a cameo in the film’s opening battle as her sister. Joonas Suotamo takes over for Peter Mayhem (who serves as consultant) as Chewbacca, who now finds sort of new buddies in the little bird like Porgs of Ahch-To, which brings some of the aforementioned comic relief along with some wisecracks that all begin with Poe Dameron mocking the stern-faced General Hux, played again by Domhnall Gleeson. There are a few surprises here and there that help drive the film and while some may not like the comic relief or even something along the lines of The Empire Strikes Back, the film ultimately does a good job of both closing and opening the gaps for the next installment.
It’s been two years since we saw the official saga’s last entry, The Force Awakens, and it is well worth the wait. With Rian Johnson at the helm, the writer-director took a smart approach at bringing a film that is high on the level scales as in this reviewer’s opinion, the second best installment of the Star Wars saga (Sorry, but the best one still remains The Empire Strikes Back, episode five). Johnson wisely injected some beats of humor while keeping the saga alive with more action, drama, and most importantly revelations ready to set up Star Wars Episode IX.
There are two important plot points to look at when seeing this film. The first is the continuation of the battle between the Resistance and the First Order. In what is her final performance, Carrie Fisher could not have done a better job as General Leia Organa. While for a good portion of the film her character is incapacitated and replaced by Laura Dern’s Amilyn Holdo, Fisher truly makes the most of her screen time and a resounding round of applause is much needed for Fisher as well as that of Mark Hamill as the returning Luke Skywalker.
In the second important plot point, Skywalker has gone from hero to a conflicted soul looking for peace. However, with the support of some old friends, finds a sense of redemption when he teaches Rey, played by an excellent Daisy Ridley, the ways of the Jedi after he has failed teaching Kylo Ren, played this time by Adam Driver not so much as a spoiled brat but someone who now realizes what he is made of and how to unleash his potential.
Oscar Isaac and John Boyega continue their bromance as ace pilot Poe Dameron and reformed Stormtrooper Finn as they can be seen in a Han Solo-Lando Calrissian type of relationship without the sense of betrayal. Poe has become somewhat of a danger to himself at times soon learning a lesson in the process while Boyega wants to remain loyal to the Resistance. Kelly Marie Tran makes a welcome addition to the team as Rose Tico, with Veronica Ngo making a cameo in the film’s opening battle as her sister. Joonas Suotamo takes over for Peter Mayhem (who serves as consultant) as Chewbacca, who now finds sort of new buddies in the little bird like Porgs of Ahch-To, which brings some of the aforementioned comic relief along with some wisecracks that all begin with Poe Dameron mocking the stern-faced General Hux, played again by Domhnall Gleeson. There are a few surprises here and there that help drive the film and while some may not like the comic relief or even something along the lines of The Empire Strikes Back, the film ultimately does a good job of both closing and opening the gaps for the next installment.
Last edited by WorldFilmGeek; 12-18-17 at 02:10 PM.
The idea of starship fuel was a plot device for the slow chase nothing more.
It's something we've never heard of before
Being that Star Wars takes place in a used galaxy, you would expect that there had been some sort of renewable tech employed to power a star ship, a warp core for example.
and it felt off.
Is it that there is no defense, or just that the defense boils down to "I care about different things than you do"? Seems like it's the latter.
If you think the latest films exist primarily to reinforce whatever arc existed for the older characters, and someone else thinks there's no reason for them to exist if they do that (and if they don't forge out and try something new), then you're obviously going to be talking at cross-purposes unless you discuss that difference, specifically, rather than all the complaints that come downstream of it.
You want me to explain why in a fast moving fleet battle/dogfight having really slow moving, large, explosive filled ships that have to wait until they are directly over their target are a terrible idea, poorly thought through?
OK Yoda, they will be picked off easily by the enemy, turrets or fighters and will likely cause there own side more harm
I don't think that's true.
I can get on board what they are trying to do here, just not they way they've gone about it. Clumsy.
I hated Dern's character at first, but thought she was okay when I saw what they did with her. There are legitimate criticisms there, but it served some useful storytelling purpose. "Could have been done better" would be a reasonable way to put it, I think.
It's relevant that this film is largely despised amongst Star Wars fans.
More importantly, there's pretty good reason to doubt that those ratings are accurate. They're not scientific, and at least one person has already claimed "credit" for rigging them. On the other hand, The Last Jedi has received high marks from things like CinemaScore, which is impossible to fake or rig because it interviews people literally coming out of the theater. So something's clearly up.
I would say yes every post I've made in this thread has been at least part vent, I love SW and am outraged at what's happened.
Last edited by Yoda; 12-19-17 at 01:47 PM.
Reason: Fixed broken quote tags.
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Um,oops...maybe audience scores are just as bogus as I thought?
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/star_wars_saga
Critics and audiences agree for the most part. In fact, audiences liked the original star wars movies slighly more than critics and disliked the last 6 ones slightly less. This one is an anomaly: 93% critical note and 56% audience, very weird. Contrast ESB, 94% critics and 97% audience or ANH, 93% critics and 96% audience.
It almost looks like critics were being paid to review it or it looks like the divergence you expect to see in an art movie that normal people dislike and critics like (such as a Kiarostami movie).
And you never heard of death stars or shield generators, until you did. And while you may bristle at the suggestion that you don't like things just because they're new, that's quite literally the argument you're making now. You're arguing that something is bad simply because it was introduced as a new concept.
Huh? This sounds totally backwards. The fact that it's "used" and dirty and grimy is exactly why things like running out of fuel fit. The warp core stuff is for Star Trek, where everything is shiny and clean and there's no scarcity. Thinks breaking down and running out of fuel is totally in keeping with this universe.
They would need to add in the expanded universe stuff that in the decades after ROTJ starship technology evolved into engines that require fuel.
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