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Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17


I just saw this beautiful Japanese animation.

God I just cannot enjoy the message this movie delivers. It is safe to say this movie is against war, yet it portrays Japan as the only 'victims' in the movie. For god sake, they started the war and they were like animals killing people out there in WW2. The message is unbelievably hypocritical.

What are the movies that have delivered a message/meaning you cannot agree with?
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Miss Vicky's Avatar
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09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dirk120
God I just cannot enjoy the message this movie delivers. It is safe to say this movie is against war, yet it portrays Japan as the only 'victims' in the movie. For god sake, they started the war and they were like animals killing people out there in WW2. The message is unbelievably hypocritical.
I haven't seen the film yet, but from what I can tell it's about a civilian woman and the effects the bombing of Hiroshima have on her and her family. In what way is it hypocritical?

There were many, many innocent victims in the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People, including children, who had done nothing wrong died or were horrifically injured. Your statements seem to suggest that civilians are somehow equally culpable for the actions and decisions of their leaders and their military, which is BS. Should every movie centering around the innocent victims of war show the suffering of victims from every nation involved in it?

Also, did you go into this movie totally blind or did you know what it was about before you watched it?



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Bach to the future
09-08-17
The logic of "the only victims" is absurd. Okay let's place a war drama in Japan with a Japanese character. Why is this story not talking about the invasion of Poland? Where is the Holocaust here?

Maybe this director is apologetic of the Japanese society, culture and attitude towards the war, which is not precisely the trend in the anime films about WW2 I've seen, but even in that case it is the story of an innocent civilian who suffers the effects of war. To claim representation where it's not intended, let alone calling it controversial for that, is absurd. To act like the director owes some sort of compensation for facts ended 15 years before he was even born is ****ed up repulsive tier.



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09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dirk120
For god sake, they started the war and they were like animals killing people out there in WW2. The message is unbelievably hypocritical.
Eh? WWII was in full swing before they got involved. Last time I was in Japan kids were still being taught they were requested to get involved as the watch dog of asia. Why would a movie portray it correctly.



Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17
To reply to posts above:




WARNING: spoilers below


Near the end of the movie, when the leader announced that Japan had lost the war and surrendered, the main character, that woman, cried in tears and screams: "How can we give in against Violence? I still have another arm and I have my legs, I can join the military and continue to fight!"

Violence? Who bombed Pearl Harbor first? Who was responsible to kill 300,000 civilians in Nanking Massacre?

Had Japan won the war, I don't know how this animation will portray the happiness coming from the main character. By winning the war, that would mean China and Korea had been destroyed.

You guys probably don't know as much as the history about Japan invading other Asian countries.

This movie wants to portray the pain those Japanese civilians suffers, I GET IT, and I was moved by that too! But please don't put up a major line like "How can we give in against Violence? I still have another arm and I have my legs, I can join the military and continue to fight!" when in fact their country did so much damage and crime to other countries and to their own people.



Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17
If Germany made a beautiful animation portraying their own civilian suffering from the pain in the war, and yet in the end of the movie they all went very emotional about Germany losing the war and screamed "We cannot give in against VIOLENCE."

A lot of people will be mad too.

Put yourself in their shoes before you call other people BS.



Dani8's Avatar
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You can't win an argument just by being right!
09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dirk120
If Germany made a beautiful animation portraying their own civilian suffering from the pain in the war, and yet in the end of the movie they all went very emotional about Germany losing the war and screamed "We cannot give in against VIOLENCE."

A lot of people will be mad too.

Put yourself in their shoes before you call other people BS.
How much of your country's historical sources are 100% accurate? Not sure what you're getting so angry about but I havent seen it and probably wont any time soon.



jal90's Avatar
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Bach to the future
09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dirk120
To reply to posts above:




WARNING: spoilers below


Near the end of the movie, when the leader announced that Japan had lost the war and surrendered, the main character, that woman, cried in tears and screams: "How can we give in against Violence? I still have another arm and I have my legs, I can join the military and continue to fight!"

Violence? Who bombed Pearl Harbor first? Who was responsible to kill 300,000 civilians in Nanking Massacre?

Had Japan won the war, I don't know how this animation will portray the happiness coming from the main character. By winning the war, that would mean China and Korea had been destroyed.

You guys probably don't know as much as the history about Japan invading other Asian countries.

This movie wants to portray the pain those Japanese civilians suffers, I GET IT, and I was moved by that too! But please don't put up a major line like "How can we give in against Violence? I still have another arm and I have my legs, I can join the military and continue to fight!" when in fact their country did so much damage and crime to other countries and to their own people.
That doesn't sound AT ALL like being apologetic. In Grave of the fireflies there was a guy shouting BANZAI!!! and telling people, who are immersed in their own tragedy, to not surrender to the enemy. In Who's left behind the entire point of the movie is Japanese people not accepting the defeat. It was a matter of patriotic pride and it was part of the context back then. That is in no way condoning (in fact, in these examples it's the exact contrary), it's telling things like they were.



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09-08-17
Again, citizens are not culpable for the actions of their nation's government or military. They are responsible only for their own actions.

But you think the main character should be all like "Yeah my country should stop fighting back. 'Cause clearly what happened to me is karma for all the suffering I didn't inflict on the people of Nanking and Pearl Harbor." Yeah, no.



Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dani8
How much of your country's historical sources are 100% accurate? Not sure what you're getting so angry about but I havent seen it and probably wont any time soon.
I didn't say anything about sources being 100% or whatnot.

But in case you are interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

You can make your own conclusion.



Dani8's Avatar
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You can't win an argument just by being right!
09-08-17
I already know but thanks. Still not sure what it has to do with this movie.



Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dani8
I already know but thanks. Still not sure what it has to do with this movie.

You know something doesn't mean you can relate yourself to it. But I can.

Watching Dunkirk could be very emotional to British people, but others who don't relate to the story can treat it like any other popcorn blockbuster.



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You can't win an argument just by being right!
09-08-17
Well I looked it up:

In the film, nature and traditional culture in Japan are clearly described and contrasted with the cruel and irredeemable scenes brought by the war. Though it is a fictional account, the episodes and background of the story are based on facts and real incidents researched by the production staff.[13] In the film, the lost townscape of pre-war Hiroshima, damaged by the atomic bombing in Hiroshima, is accurately revived in the scenes, following old photos, documents, and the memories of living people.[13]
What's the problem? Seems to me you're making a mountain out of a mole hill.



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You can't win an argument just by being right!
09-08-17
Originally Posted by Dirk120
You know something doesn't mean you can relate yourself to it. But I can..
I dont even know what you're trying to relate to, Dirk. Totally escaping me. What does the massacre at Nanking have to do with this little manga?



Dirk120's Avatar
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09-08-17
It was not my intention that this movie should include other aspects of WW2 in the story. But when you make a movie, especially an obvious anti-war movie, the director should have a better perspective and reveal the true reason why war happened.

People only learn from historical mistake when they fully accept the cause of the event. "You lost the war as invaders, and making your own people suffer the pain that should never been brought to them" is a better message than "You lost the war against 'Violence' and yet your own people still don't want to give in after going through all the tragedy. "

The latter message sounds like propaganda to me.



Dani8's Avatar
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You can't win an argument just by being right!
09-08-17
You could say all war dramas are propaganda.

Still not getting what you're up in arms about.

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