War in the Middle East

Damn, I am busted.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

Cute little graphic...

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Interesting definition of "arab land". It lefts out arab states like Algeria, Morocco and Tunisia but instead includes non-arab states like Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and all the muslim former Soviet states. But... point taken. Israel is a small jewish country surrounded by muslim countries. Muslim equals arab and geographical homeland is insignificant. And the Palestinians should stop whining. Hell, why bitch about your home being occupied when you can have the exact same life in, for instance, Pakistan?

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

Touche'

Thats the worst arguement ive ever heard.

The Palestinians and Pakis have NOTHING in common..not the same language, culture, food, society...its a complete different thing.

But for the sake of arguement, lets assume that you're right.Would you be happy if i came to your door right now...grabbed you by the shirt and twisted it so that basically i ruined your shirt...and then i dragged you outside and annexed your home, and then told you "hey stop whining go live at your neighbor's house, its the exact same life"

You wouldn't be happy. Palestinians are emotional human beings just like you, and they want THEIR house, and THIER land,not some other country.

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Δύο άτομα. Μια μάχη. Κανένας συμβιβασμός.

I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic.

Except it isn't their land. It never was. At no point did they own it. Britain owned it before WWII, and gave it to the Israelis. So here's a better analogy, using the same theme as yours:

It'd be as if someone was letting you live in their house, then told you to leave because they were going to give it another family that had endured a number of hardships. So you planted a pipe bomb under the new tenant's swingset. They offered you their backyard to end the conflict, and you refused, instead rounding up other people in the neighborhood to harass them. They build a fence around the property to defend against this, and you kidnap one of their family members.

THAT's the reality of the situation. Emotional outrage from Palestinians may be understable on some level, but it's just not rational. They are demanding things that were not theirs to begin with, and they've been consistently violent even in the face of a compromise they have no right to in the first place.

I don't deny that that's possible, but the online translations would have to be staggeringly inaccurate and misleading if they really don't say what they appear to be saying. I find that very far-fetched. But it's possible, so I'll wait to see what yours says before saying any more.

excuse me? so by that reasoning, indians also don't have a right to their country because it was once occupied? it's their country Chris, they lived there consistently for over a thousand years...just like croatians have lived in croatia for over a thousand years and never had a state of our own...does that mean we had no actual right to form a country because others have allowed us to live here by the goodness of their heart? i have to admit, this i didn't expect from you...
how about a third scenario: how about, the world suddenly decides that gypsies have had enough trouble in their history, always looked down upon, never owned their own land... hey, lets give them america...you know, make it THEIR land, let them govern it...and what of americans? we don't really care....oh wait that actually happened to the native americans...yeah, we came, get the **** out! i guess now i realize why so many americans take the israelis side over the palestinians....

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http://www.last.fm/user/diezelpower/

Who me??

Hmmm.... You have a black hole in your history file, Chris. In 1947 UN divided the territory in two parts: one jewish and one arab. After that the nation of Israel was proclaimed in 1948 which wasn't very popular among the arab states, who saw the entire area as being Palestinian property. So they attacked Israel but they didn't succeed in crushing the new state. Instead Israel occupied the Palestinian areas, The West Bank, Gaza and seized total control over Jerusalem. The also conquered Sinai and Golan from Egypt, and Jordan I think (not sure). But anyway... When you say that the Palestines never had a country of their own, as in a piece of land acknowledged by UN and so forth, you're completely wrong. They were given land too but lost it in wars against Israel who does not want to give it back.

Thats an even worse analogy lol.

The Israelis didn't let the Palestinians live in their home.
Its the other way around, chris. The palestinian families living in Palestine date back thousands of years. You really should look up the history of the Palestinians..they were once part of the Assyrians...who were living in that entire region of the middle east. The Assyrians were there EVEN BEFORE moses liberated the hebrew slaves from egypt.

I know this history like the back of my hand: Judea and Samaria were the only known records of jews ever living in the area...and even then they were living (peacefully might i add) with the arabs, who were content to have their own country in palestine. What happened was BRITAIN took over palestine after the ottoman empire lost in the first world war....

so yes Palestine hasn't been a sovreign nation since the british overtook it after WWI. But before that it was a normal arabic nation, and jews lived peacefully with the arabs...in fact pre-1948 there is no record of significant anti-semitist feelings towards jews by the arab states. It was only in 1948 when BRITAIN gave the land to the jewish lobby and renamed it Israel that hatred began its seed. 98.8% of all Israelis immigrated into palestine after 1947, so how can you say the Israeli's have always been there and the palestinians have not? How is that land not theirs when every Palestinian citizen i know has a document that says this land is his but the israelis took it away and disregarded the document....i just dont understand how you can blind yourself to these enormous facts because i know you're an intelligent person so i never undertand why you ignore blatant facts like that. The Palestinians have been living in palestine for centuries, it is only in the last 60 years that the population of jews in the occupied lands went from <2% to 98%.

So please dont say things like "Except it isn't their land. It never was. At no point did they own it. Britain owned it before WWII, and gave it to the Israelis" because it raises my blood pressure. Britain owned it after WWI but they never kicked the Palestinians out, the Israeli's began doing that in 1948.

To prove that your logic is false ill introduce an example closer to home for me. Syria was occupied by France after WWI (for the same exact reasons that palestine was occupied by the british: Syria was occupied by the ottoman empire and then ottoman empire lost WWI) So if France decided to give syria to the gypsies who suffered in the holocaust, and then the gypsies became so powerful they took over the land and kicked my family out..dont you think id be pretty pissed right now? dont you think there would be a high chance that id join a "terrorist" group like hezbollah? hell yes id join a group like that if it meant a possible victory to get my homeland back.

By the way for those of you who dont know me well i live in new orleans and i was born in houston texas...but i refer to syria as my homeland because its where my father is from (my mother being Czech), and its the culture in which i grew up. Anyways, I'm an american obviously but syria is my homeland since 95% of my relatives live there.

The Golan Heights belong to syria, the west bank used to belong to jordan, the sinai was for egypt and finally they annexed a small portion of southern lebanon.

And now for the real quranic quotes give me a sec to type all of this out.

I'm spending alot of time on this so I really expect people to respond and give me feedback. As chris has asked me to, I am going to compare for you quotes from the Koran that you see online and in the media sometimes to TRUE AND OFFICIAL quotes directly from the Quran itself which I hold dearly and lovingly in my hand right now (wow I sound like a jesus freak when im really not, lol). Even if you aren’t religious or think religion is wish wash, I encourage you to read this as well, the Koran is afterall one of the best pieces of literature in man’s possession. I know the Quran very well so I’m not doing this for fun, I really hope this opens many of your eyes.

Here’s the format, I'll quote the online versions and then ill post after that the real version. Anything not in bold is text that appears before or after the quote in question. This is for your own benefit so you can see the context from which the quote comes. I urge you to read not just the bold, as sometimes you will see that the subject of question is different than what the bold by itself would suggest. Lets begin.

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REAL VERSION:

We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary clear signs and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an Apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride? Some ye called imposters, and others ye slay! They say, “Our hearts are the wrappings which preserve God’s Word: we need no more.” Nay, God’s curse is on them For their blasphemy: Little is it they believe.

MY COMMENTS:
As you can clearly see here, the original quote not only differs but it fools you into thinking anyone who isn’t muslim is cursed. When really all the quote says (when taken in context) is that god curses those who do not believe god’s messengers: moses, jesus ,mary, the apostles, mohammed…..
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REAL VERSION:

Whoever is an enemy to God and his angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael, Lo! God is an enemy to those who reject faith

MY COMMENTS:
This one is close. Except god isn’t an enemy to the unbelievers, he’s an enemy to those who reject faith, any faith. I will admit, the Quran is not very nice to atheists.
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REAL VERSION:

For the inquity of the Jews we made unlawful for them certain foods good and wholesome which had been lawful for them; In that they hindered many from God’s way. That they took ursury, though they were forbidden; and that they devoured men’s substance wrongfully; we have prepared for those among them who reject faith a grievous punishment.

MY COMMENTS:
If you haven’t noticed how badly forged the online versions are by now then maybe this one will wake you up. Why on EARTH would you begin a sentence with “wherefore for” that’s so repetitive…forgery at its worst. Furthermore, as you can see, the text tells of how the jews were told not to eat pork and drink alchohol…UM HELLO THAT’S NOTHING NEW EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT THE JEWS AND KOSHER. ****, god later made alchohol and pork illegal for the arabs too because it “hindered many from gods way” the muslims used to get too drunk to pray…hence the banning of alchohol.
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REAL VERSION:

But because of their breach of their covenant, we cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard: they change the words from their right places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them barring a few ever bent on new deceits: But forgive them, and overlook their misdeeds: for God loveth those who are kind.

MY COMMENTS:
Again, the online version comes close but there are still a few forgeries. But about trhe subject matter…whats new here? The bible, Koran, and the torah all document the curse placed on those who broke the covenant and forgot the message of god. Give me a break this is not anti Semitism and if it is..that means the bible is antisemist too. Read Leviticus or Chronicles…I quote “They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)”
Wow, looks to me like if im not a child of Israel living at the time I’d be put to death by god’s orders. Yea, the jews definitely broke their covenant and forgot the message entrusted to them and that’s what the quranic verse is about.
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I hope I’ve done a decent job of showing you the differences in how the online version choose to present the quotes, and how they differ from the real quotes and how context really does matter.

If any of you need anything from this book let me know and ill give you the correct verse. ONCE AGAIN DON’T TRUST ONLINE SITES WHEN IT COMES TO QUOTES FROM THE KORAN..ESPECIALLY FROM A JEWISH PROPAGANDA SITE.


EDIT: HERES ONE OF MY FAVORITES USED ALL THE TIME

Here's the real version:
For God, religion is submission to his will. (Surah 3:19)

MY COMMENTS: Never ceases to amaze me what people would do to convince you of something.

Cheers for doing that Eq.

It certainly reads better in the versions you've put there (altho the first one baffles me a bit).

On the initial cause of all this, it looks like Knicks was wrong to characterise this type of stuff as Anti-Semetic etc, per se. The specifics of it all seem to boil down to anti-athiesm first, "We're the one true faith" sentiments second. As Knicks pointed out though, that's a charge that can be leveled at all of the 'big three'.

But seeing as interpretation is important, it certainly does no harm to clear up some of the language and context

And boy is there a lot of context

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Virtual Reality chatter on a movie site? Got endless amounts of it here. Reviews over here

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20...3022-5852r.htm


Couple things here (please read article for this to make much sense):

1. Iran underestimates Israel (the "zionist regime") and the type of response Israel will give if the intelligence is confirmed. Iran has already promised war if Syria is attacked, what do you think they'll do if they are attacked? Now of course if this is confirmed negotiation could take place. Israel has already accused Iran of direct involvement*, and if this is confirmed they will confront Iran.
2. Iran is arrogant enough to think that their position in the world is that which will protect them of any attack. They may be close with Russia, but that won't be enough.

*Iran is involved. Syria is nothing but a puppet to Iran and both Iran and Syria fund Hezbollah, the same hezbollah that is in Lebanon.

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I am moved by fancies that are curled
Around these images, and cling:
The notion of some infinitely gentle
Infinitely suffering thing.
T.S Eliot, "Preludes"

Here's a map of what the 1947 UN Partition Plan looked like:



Source: Department for Jewish Zionist Education

As you can see on the map, the area formerly known as Palestine during the British mandate from 1923, by 1947 had been divided into jewish and arab territories while Jerusalem was supposed to be under UN administration. So in 1947 the Palestinian arabs actually had their own land for a while.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article....ticle_id=74287

I find it exceptionally disturbing that Israel has deliberately degraded the environmnent in their attacks on Lebanon. What did the fish and birds ever do?

A schematic of what the UN wanted Palestine to look like has nothing to do with what it ACTUALLY looked like. By 1947 it actually looked like a line going right down the middle.

Smart that Nasrallah. Hes smart to hide in the Iranian embassy because Israel is going to have a hard time coming to the decision to bomb the Iranian Embassy. Allthatglitters, I don't think Iran is underestimating anyone..I think Israel is underestimating Iran. Iran's position regardless of who allies with it is very strong. They have a huge military and i don't doubt they have nuclear weapons. Israel won't be so quick to attack Iran, Iran has been itching for a fight and has been preparing itself for 10 years.

Getting into a fight with Iran would be against its best interest.

Iran is itching to fight. Israel has one of the best militaries in the world. Whether Israel bombs the Iranian embassy or not is not dependant on whether their military is good enough. I also do not think that Israel underestimates a regime that calls for its annihilation. The restrained (yes, it has been rather restrained) policies that Israel has been carrying out in the past has perhaps set the stage for this present conflict says one article in The Economist. Israel will engage Iran now, before Iran finishes building the nukes that are meant for them.