The Elephant in the Closet - Conservativism in film and Hollywood

Oh boy, here goes:

I was wondering what people’s thoughts were on the topic of conservatism in film, examples of it, and if it exists today and if so is it more concealed or subtly hinted at or is it outwardly explicit?

What got me thinking about this was several things. The first of which is that I have off-and-on for the past few years or so listened to several film/movie podcasts on Spotify. One of them is “Classic Movie Musts” which often featured the late great film scholar and teacher Ted Walch and another is The Cine-Files with John Rocha and Steven Morris. On both of these podcasts it is not uncommon for them to review films that touch upon political themes or ideas in which case it is clear, as they express, liberal leaning viewpoints, which is perfectly fine. There are a handful of other podcasts, etc that I’ve listened to over the past couple years too that have taken it almost for granted that most of their audience shares a similar left of center view of the world. I assume that's not the case - I imagine there are some, maybe not as many, film buffs and critics who aren't liberal or are at least center on the political spectrum.

It’s no secret that Hollywood is perceived as being very liberal, and maybe those views are somewhat exaggerated, however it is well documented through activism by many in Hollywood and voting habits that Democrats are far, far, far more vocal at least. This can be clear from everything from award ceremonies to late night TV to public statements made after tragic events like shootings which are unfortunately often politicized.

Something else that got me to thinking about this is how I have watched several Bob Hope films lately and he makes several digs at Democrats in those movies. I was slightly aware that he was a Republican, but it didn’t really connect or click until I heard his little aside jokes aimed at Democrats that are sprinkled throughout his films.

Since I’ve subscribed to Criterion online in the past month or two, I’ve been catching up on some lesser-canonized Cary Grant films including Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream Home and Holiday. In the former film there’s a running joke about his daughter’s liberal teacher and in Holiday he perfectly delivers a zinger regarding taxes and how the government just likes to take our money. Subsequently I looked it up and was surprised to see that Cary Grant was a Republican.

Three critically acclaimed films of the past decade or so that I’ve watched of late (all three will likely be on our top 100 films of the 2010’s countdown) which, regardless of the filmmaker’s and writer’s intent (I admittedly don’t know what it was) that could with little effort be interpreted as pro-life are The Arrival (2016), A Quiet Place, and Locke. Spoiler alerts - in The Arrival Amy Adams’ character chooses to have a child, but suffer regardless knowing that the child will die from an incurable disease, in A Quiet Place Emily Blunt and John Krasinski chose to have a child at great risks to themselves AND in fact design a whole structure in which to quietly have the child and care for it - knowing the world as it is (this spits in the face of a common pro-choice argument about not bringing children into a toxic and painful world), and finally Locke in which a man (Tom Hardy) has an affair, but still wants her to have the baby and travels two hours at great risk to his family and career to see his illegitimate child born.

Those are three very recent highly critically acclaimed films that I thought up that have very pro-life and conservative subtext. Of course we know about John Wayne and Charlton Heston from years long gone, but is conservatism still alive in Hollywood or, and I’m reminded of one of my all time favorite documentaries, The Celluloid Closet , which I absolutely love) have conservatives gone "into the closet" for fear of losing their careers and being branded and ostracized in the business? Just like the days of old when LGBTQ+ were discriminated against and how writers and directors had to sneak that stuff into films, is conservatism like this today? It is a topic I’d like to explore openly on the forums with the conversation staying professional and respectful and non-incendiary. And, as a couple of you know, full disclosure I have been a registered Republican since I first voted in the 2000 election and am a conservative despite having some very libertarian leaning views - this has always made me feel a bit of an outcast as a film lover and in my chosen profession of teaching English for 14 years up until a couple of years ago when I was pushed out and lost my career.

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Interesting thread topic and I will follow it. I don't really have much to add as I normally watch old, mid 20th century films and I haven't consciously been aware that the directors/writers of those old films were deliberately giving a conservation or liberal viewpoint...I'm not saying they didn't, I'm sure they did at times...but I think a lot of people see 'a giant behind every tree'. Especially today, people on both sides of the spectrum want to see more in a movie than was actually intended by the film makers. Hope that makes sense.

I don't think Locke can really be interpreted as pro-life. My understanding is that Locke doesn't love the woman with whom he has an affair (he describes it as a drunken one-night-stand) and even considers her an annoyance but still feels a need to be responsible to her and his child out of some ingrained ideal of being a better father than his own father was, but this has the dramatic irony of causing his existing family to fall apart. If anything, this is more of a commentary on how twisted up a person can get by following rigidly-held principles about fatherhood and traditional masculinity - ruining your whole life over a baby doesn't exactly strike me as pro-life messaging.

Regarding the wider topic of whether or not conservatism is shunned or encouraged in Hollywood, I think it's a matter of degrees. Obviously the more extreme fringe stuff like Dinesh D'Souza docs or Daily Wire productions understandably get shuffled off to the side, but Hollywood can put up with the more centre-right stuff as long as it's good for business (even the nominally progressive values they extol only go so far).

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Correct, Locke doesn't love her, but he feels an obligation toward her because of his actions and isn't going to ask her to have an abortion. I would have to re-watch it again to see if that topic is brought up from her side at all, but I think it isn't explicitly addressed, but the conservative message is about responsibility and to ask her to terminate the pregnancy would be an easy cop-out.

I agree that he has possibly put a wrench into his life, but not because of the action to be there for the mother and the birth of his illegitimate child, but rather the act that begot the child to begin with. His twisted up action is not to drive there for his child's birth, but rather to have had the affair to begin with. Based on where the film starts, he's doing the right thing according to his values and that's not a bad message. There's too many out there who would have asked her to either terminate the pregnancy, ignore it altogether, or simply refuse to pay/acknowledge child support, etc. In my mind, Locke has a very conservative tilt to it as he's bearing the cross of his sin of cheating on his wife, adultry. It is a tough question however and open for a lot of discussion. I have a feeling Locke will show up high on the top 100 of the decade list and earn every vote it and point it gets.

Nah, it's MoFo, it's not Rotten Tomatoes of old or even reddit of today. Everyone here is cool.

Usually, these kinds of discussions eventually veer off topic, but we'll see how it goes.

As long as we aren't talking about films which are purely idealogically driven, I think there are probably all sorts of conservative or vaguely conservative films out there. Films that depict traditional family dynamics, that seem wary of big government, that value strong male role models, that are about taking the law in one's own hands because the process is too slow. And these can work just fine even for liberal audience members because they deal with humanist issues that don't necessarily exclude them.


As for purely idealogically driven films, well, these are generally garbage whatever side you tend to agree with. Anything that feels as if it is putting its agenda first has a tendency to lose sight of the humanity that should be at the films core. Even when it believes it is being humanist.


But I think it is also probably true that there may be a larger willingness to portray more dogmatic political points that come from the left wing. And I think this might be because narratives with these points in mind generally have a veneer of siding with the little guy against a larger system. Right wing films seem to deify those who are strong, who have done well, who aren't the outsiders or weirdos. They also have a tendency to agree with established systems, such as big business and corporate interests. So I think it becomes a harder general narrative to make sympathetic if your hero is aligned with the top dogs from the beginning of the film. Who want to maintain the status quo. Basically I think writing the supposed heroes journey is a much easier task when you are writing from the perspective of the left.


Also, it doesn't seem to help getting conservative voices seen when it seems to me there is sometimes a skeptical attitude towards the arts baked into a lot of right wing thinking. Most conservatives I know think taking movies seriously as an art form and not just easy escapism is a kind of weakness or flaw most likely to be found in a pinko like me

There will always be social conservative politics in Hollywood cinema as it’s run by neo-liberal economic politics. If there’s a market for an idea, they will cater to and exploit it. *gestures at the action genre*

The degree to which Hollywood is conservative is largely the degree to which people expand "conservative" to include mainstream things that most people don't think of as being political either way. When we restrict our terms to things actually being discussed in the political sphere, the asymmetry is (more) obvious.

And really, you kinda don't even need to analyze the output to conclude that. It's just not feasible that any industry with a massive disparity in party fundraising/affiliation won't reflect those values.

It's still the Internet.

Anyway, you first joined quite awhile ago, and in the years since you were here last, we added a No Politics rule (more here). This is obviously still related to film, and it'll stay open as long as a) everyone's cool and b) it mostly stays about film. But we'll have to have a quick hook if it veers into the purely political, fair wairning.

Fair point and for whatever reason, the arts are less associated with Conservativiam and people who align more right wing do seem to regard the arts literature, film, etc as more of a side thing in life than a central and integral part. Wonder why that is. I've encountered that a lot as a conservative in a very liberal career, on both sides.

Looking at when Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream Home came out, it was 1948.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1948

Maybe I'm reading it too quickly, but I'm not seeing what the tax rates were before or after the reduction in that act. But Google's telling me the top marginal tax rate, on people making more than 200,000 in 1948 (presumably before that bill) was 94%.

There was a war they were paying off and all. But getting a tax bill passed through a presidential veto is probably a sign that there was a general public sentiment about it.

ETA: Just giving this because the historical context does make it seem more likely you're going to get a joke a political party wanting to tax people then as opposed to now. Beyond just the whole, "it was a different time politically then." Which is also true. Given how much parties have changed in the decades since (creeping up on a century now). When I watch a movie from the 40s or even the 50s, and it's poking fun at a political party, I often find myself wondering what the party's actual politics were at the time.

It's been decades since I've paid attention, but at least back in the day, Trey Parker Matt Stone identified as libertarians, and I got the general vibe it popped up in their humor. Clint Eastwood also identified as a libertarian (I'd say I felt it showed up in his movies, but outside of Unforgiven, but I don't know how many of the films he's directed I've seen).

But trying to think this through I suspect will probably get into what is actually considered conservative belief. Just thinking about how the most famous anti-Communist piece of media is presumably 1984, and that was written by a dyed-in-the-wool socialist.

From what I understand, the big "conservative" movie recently was Top Gun: Maverick (I haven't seen it, although I saw the original when it came out in the theater).

The one I remember before that, which had a bit of "to-do" surrounding it was American Sniper (hailed as one of the few conservative movies produced when it came out in 2014). I did see that one, but don't remember much. I don't think I cared for it as a movie because it kept jumping between the guy's military experience and his home life - I only remember it got somewhat repetitious in that respect. I thought the way the real-life character was killed was a much more interesting part of his story - but (again if I remember correctly) I don't think it was really delved into in the film.

As I have gotten older and drifted from a fairly left libertarian to a more trad-life conservative, a few of my (left-ish) friends always bring this point up to me as proof I am not actually a conservative. "But Mike, you have a deep love for the arts such as music and film, as well as literature, and many of the works you like most have a strong leftist message." This sticks in their craw and generally leaves them taking the stance that I am just putting on a conservative hat in order to play devil's advocate with them. I would argue that this makes me a libertarian! Then I remember that at this point in my life, I care more about maintaining good relationships with all my friends and family, and either fitting into a political box or placing others in a political box just isn't as important to me anymore. Unless of course they are a dirty pinko commie!

I kid.

*Eyeballs Crumbsroom*

But really, I think the arts are the key to bringing people together, to having a common interest in beautiful and terrible things that move us all in one way or another. Hopefully, art can help us all remember that there are forces hard at work attempting to keep us divided, and that these forces would rather our differences be highlighted as something that makes us feel alone or shunned, instead of something to recognize, celebrate, and then reduce focus on as we share common interests.

Not sure what it means that most of my friends lean left, other than it clearly means I live in Massachusetts! But, I try to think of myself as the guy at the dinner party that keeps the ship from listing too far to port.

Lastly - a second reminder that these threads tend to get extra scrutiny and a short leash these days. Alas...so far, so good.

On topic: I have had several people up here in MA say that they are afraid to tell people at work etc. that they lean right for fear of reprisal, or that they feel as if they have to hide it in certain situations when around certain people or groups of people.

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... I can still exist as a conservative movie buff, though, right?

...

OK, just checking.

I was raised to believe that one must love what they do. Whatever far-right-wingers exist in the world had little effect on my mostly conservative beliefs, as the conservatives around me were more disappointed with modern politics rather than angry, like the difference between the average far-political documentary and the more tame Moore films. My parents always taught me to love whatever job you wanna have and to respect everyone even if you don't agree with their standards. And they absolutely despised racism. I even remember the day my dad taught me that racism existed, and he was happy when I said it was the stupidest thing I ever heard of. I think I was 9.

Anyway, I'm more economically conservative and socially liberal, but both sides are lightweight. As a result, I have difficulty getting through far-wing movies of any kind. Like my standards, I prefer movies that reach for a more neutral ground. But I always wanted to be an artist, and my parents always saw my talent in some of my own art. If my parents told me it was a waste of time, I'd have hated them.

Um, of course. Did you see me saying it was a good thing conservative voices seem disinterested in these things? I just think they are disinterested in them. Or distrustful. And, in the big picture, I think that's unfortunate.



Okay. I believe you. I didn't call you are anyone a racist. Nor do I assume that someone is conservative would be, or any of the other lazy reductions of conservatism.



I don't have any issue with left wing or right wing movies. As long as it doesn't lean so hard into their issues that we lose sight of anything but whatever political slogan the movie is pushing.



But as long as there is nuance and love and ideas or thoughtful confrontation in the film, I'll give my time to overtly political films, even politics I mostly disagree with. As long as a conversation develops anywhere outside of obvious and empty partisan talking points, it might be worth it. And who knows, it might even be a good film, even if its politics are shit.



I don't know if that would be my preference. Art needs to make a stand of some sort. It has to push against something, whether emotional or political or moral or whatever. Neutrality feels like something that hasn't bothered to enter a discussion. Plays it safe, and safety is crap. Safety has nothing to say.



Things sort of have to lean towards one point of view or another for them even to be worth the bother of making them. An artist has to want to say something. Even if they are quiet and delicate, they are still making a stance. And politics, eventually, are at least somewhat unavoidable. We are all political to some degree or another. Even if we pretend to be apolitical, refusing to engage becomes a political stance.



But as long as a film tries not to be dogmatic or ****ing lazy and stupid in its political point of view, at least we have something to talk about. Or think about. Otherwise, what does it all matter?

Yokay, there might be some misinterpretation here.

The first quote was sarcasm, really.

The racism thing was just an example of how I ended up with my beliefs. I never said anyone called me one.

But "safety" and "hearing both sides" are two different things. Think about how a judge in a court goes about each case: he hears both sides and makes a decision. A lot of sided people on places like Reddit would rather commit contempt. Thankfully we have places like MoFo where the actual anger associated with politics seems to be so waned down that we can still have a safe discussion on whether or not politics have a say in the ratings, such as the recent Jeanne Dielman discussion.

The idea of neutrality is to hear both sides, but as soon as you pick a side and stick with it, you're lumped in with the far-this's by the far-that's, and suddenly you're drawn into the same angry and potentially hateful speech. Politics and anger have already molded in too many nasty ways. So, neutrality isn't just being safe or fence sitting, and it's definitely not impossible to be a calm person on one side of the spectrum, but neutrality does make the calm thinking easier. This is not to say all politics are wrong, but the common modern way people typically handle politics made me lose patience with it, so I remain the man who hears both sides. Besides, I feel like I can really be myself without feeling harassed into agreement every time I even HAVE political chats.