The 13TH Hall of Fame

Sarge what didn't you find believable? Can you elaborate?

I thought the townspeople in The Hunt were incredibly realistic, and I completely believed their reactions to the events of the film. I grew up in a small town as well, and the older generation in particular were always very quick to judge, spread rumours, and start treating people differently, even if they'd previously been friendly their entire lives. I think there's just this different mentality that exists in certain small communities, and I thought the film captured that very well.

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Totally agree with all of that, especially the part about small communities having a different mentality about things. I thought The Hunt was very believable, and a lot of films suffer from lack of believeability.

The part I did find unrealistic was the fact that Lucas was so quick to forgive all of those people who mistreated him and his family. I remember thinking that the film would end with Lucas and his son moving to another town together and starting a new life, because there would simply be no way for him to co-exist with those people after all the abuse he endured. So seeing him stay and actually trying to reintegrate into their society just seemed improbable to me.

Sure

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"I don't want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me" (Frank Costello)

I didn't in totality. I also grew up in a small town and there would always be suspicion if someone had been accused etc but if the 'victim' had stated numerous times, to numerous people that they made it up and the victims stories proved to be false then I know some of them would be reasonable.

The most believable reaction for me, was that of Marcus.

Spoilers for The HuntI remember there was a high profile court case in the 80s or was it the 90s...anyway, it was about a mother and her adult son who ran a child care center and were accused of child abuse and satanic practices. Children swore they did all sorts of horrible stuff, including stuff that supposedly happened in tunnels.

But, it was found in cross examination that the children had been manipulated by examiners by repeating leading questions, until the small children started to believe the questions as really had happened. It was also believed in the past that a child's court testimony was impeachable as they wouldn't lie. The mother and son were cleared of all wrong doing, but they were put through hell and the charges of child molestation ruined them.

So, I believe the film deliberately includes such scenes to show the injustice and fall out of someone falsely accused of child molestation.

this is vy interesting what you said about cross examination. I also found it kind of "glued" to the movie only to show the injustice. I mean nobody cared to further question Klara when she said she just made it up

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You can call it the art of fighting without fighting.

Maybe they did and there will always be extreme cases, but everything that the Nursery teacher did was wrong and not how she would be trained to deal with such issues. The police and authorities would certainly have been more professional in their approach even if the teacher had been an imbecile and would almost certainly have cast possible doubt on Klara's story without too much effort.

Jagten spoilers

@Sarge
There was already a big discussion on Grethe's actions, which I unfortunately missed. I'm glad you mentioned this, because I definitely agree with you here. People can try to justify her actions as "honest mistakes", but in reality her incompetence was so extreme that it made me think, how a person of her position couldn't handle that situation any worse.

- Firstly, she chose someone she knew personally to perform the crucial first interview with Klara.

- She arranged the interview to be performed in an office, from where Klara could hear other children playing outside. Seems like a big distraction for her...

- She clearly tried to influence Klara's answers during the questioning and even planted the idea inside her head that she'll be allowed to play if she gives them the answers they want.

- She plants ideas into Klara's mother head.

Grethe: “Something has occurred that shouldn’t occur between children and adults. I haven’t been able to prevent it. I’m terribly sorry. Klara has recounted sexual details about an adult. I don’t believe a child would lie in that way.”

Agnes: “It sound very confusing. What are you telling me?”

Grethe: “It seems that Klara has been a victim of sexual abuse here. Probably by someone close to you.”

Agnes: “Sexual abuse?”

Grethe: “The things she said… she’ll probably deny everything because she’s embarrassed.”

She starts the conversation with "terribly sorry", suggesting that the case was already confirmed 100%, even though it wasn't. And with the claim that Klara will deny everything, she spreads her illogical belief that children never lie, which ultimately turned out to be fatal when Klara tried to come clean and no one believed her.

- She gives dozens of parents brief informations about the accusation and tells them to watch out for symptoms of abuse. Premature move, when the investigation didn't prove anything. She tells the parents to report back to her if any of the kids are having headaches or nightmares. And when some of the parents reported that, some kids actually had headaches, she presented that as an ultimate evidence of widespread abuse.

- She phoned Marcus's mother without Lucas's knowledge. That resulted in Marcus not being allowed to speak to his father.

- When Lucas tried to talk to her, she flat out refused to hear him out and ran away. Totaly nonsensical move.

- She also pointed out how Lucas was alone with kids on numerous occasions, giving parents ideas on how and where he could have done the crime.

Literally every single one of her actions was a screw-up and she was the direct culprit for Lucas's troubles. I can definitely see why you'd think her doings were unbelievable.

I can somewhat understand his actions here. My guess is he thought that people would be rational enough and quickly come to their senses. Also perhaps he thought that going directly against the word of a little girl, wouldn't do him any favours. But yeah, he should of definitely act more vocal about it.

Did we ever decide if we are doing a special award for this HOF?

I wasn't sure what to expect with this one, having only seen one Wim Wenders movie before. That was 'Paris, Texas' which I enjoyed alot. 'Wings of Desire' is another slow paced thinker which really requires patience and thought into what you are seeing on screen.

As we follow angels around the streets of Berlin, it's clear that this is a piece of cereberally stimulating cinema that is low on plot but really hammers home messages of existentialism and the human condition. That sounds pretentious, and no doubt alot of people who watch this move think it is just that. But if movies like this don't get made, then we'd be without the wonderful performance of Bruno Ganz and the captivating way in which he wanders the streets listening and helping. It was a strange movie but one I'm very glad I watched.

Oh and Nick Cave is in it. So that's also good.

Nice nomination.

I forgot to say :

This is purely a guess, but it seemed to me that there was an unconscious, yet intimate connection when he was invisible to her, and now, seeing him that connection was very tangent and so those inner thoughts simply poured out with out the usual restraints many of us have with one another.
I'm sure this could be expressed with better eloquence from some one else but that was how it felt for me.

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What I actually said to win MovieGal's heart:
- I might not be a real King of Kinkiness, but I make good pancakes

~Mr Minio

Where is Camo?

I would say AWOL, but I don't think he is coming back.

Sure he is, but he's been talking more about a girlfriend lately.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
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I don't know what's up with Camo at this point.

He sent me an email on the 23rd asking me to email him at a different address than I had been, but he hasn't responded to my reply. We've got awhile yet before the deadline so if needs be I or someone else can step in and tally the votes. I do hope this isn't the end of his time here.

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I certainly hope it isn't as well. That would suck.
Great guy.

What the hell? Why are we talking about Camo disappearing?