Important: Being Communist Is Now a Bannable Offense

i think there should be an auto-ban attached to the words “jordan p****son”

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letterboxd
criticker

Capitalism is, by definition, the absence of such a decision.

And people wonder how we got Trump.

Regardless of what I personally value, I still have to work at a job that generates capital if I am to continue living in a capitalistic society. The government isn't going to send me off to a gulag if I refuse to work, but its solution for the unemployed is still geared towards finding them work that provides them with the amount of capital necessary to live within society (and living without it is difficult, if not impossible). As a result, it's easy to think that capitalists are free to decide what they value when they already live in a society that is built on those values.

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Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

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Yeah, I have zero idea why you think those two things are at odds.

What I said about capitalism isn't actually arguable. Which I guess is why you didn't actually respond with an argument.

No you don't. You could start a commune.

This is the great, unacknowledged difference between your preferred economy and mine: in a capitalist society, you are free to live as a collectivist with others. In a collectivist society, the inverse is not true.

Has anyone researched or lived experimental communities?

When I was in my early 20's, I looked into communes, but they all seemed like private clubs with higher rent and less freedom (but hey, it's nice to have an option).

Alright, I'm trying to make sense of what you're saying Iro, but it sounds like the goal post is moving back and forth a little.

Here is the record of the conversation just to observe it all lined up:

The Capitalist state isn't going to force you to get a job. You can go live in a tent and pick berries if you want. Do you like Socialism because you want to sit at home watching movies all day on other people's tax dollars? I could be making twice as much money doing half as much work, but I chose a lower paying job because I love the work and I value that more than the money. The government can't even run the post office, and you want them to run everything? I live in Canada, and the Healthcare sucks. My grandmother had a heart attack, and had to wait in the emergency waiting for so long that she suffered another heart attack and died. If she lived in America my family could have easily afforded health insurance and she might still be alive to this day.

Or perhaps and auto-ban enacted when people say really silly things?

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Jordan Peterson is an *********.

Any time someone's met with this level of vitriol, it's either because they're totally thoughtless and awful, or because they've struck a nerve.

Having actually heard the guy talk, I know where I'm placing my bet.

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Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019

sounds like we agree

Normally I'd try to unpack these comments, but:

a) people who want to have actual discussions usually don't post glib drive-by criticisms to begin with, and
b) I really really doubt there's much more behind it than "he doesn't believe the stuff I believe."

Do you believe that starting a commune without previously having some capital is possible? The reason why I'm doubting it is that in a capitalist society in order to build something somehwere you need to own the land and in order to own the land you either have to buy it or to inherit it. I'd add that you have to know how to do agriculture and many things in order to build a self sufficient community, things which aren't really taught in school right now. We are taught more to be future workers, to be people who are going to be able to work in the capitalist society than to be free thinkers, etc.

I'm not arguing against capitalism, personally I think that a highly regulated free market is the way to go (as opposed to communism in which there isn't any free market), however I don't believe that the logical possibility of creating a commune in a capitalist system is really an argument in favor of it.

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I do not speak english perfectly so expect some mistakes here and there in my messages

I'm stopping myself from weighing in on a lot here because I'm way too scattered for as broad as it's gotten. But I really have to say this is the first time I've ever heard US health insurance referred to as easily affordable.

Not that you're wrong. Just something novel to hear.

It's sort of already happened: the U.S. government, for example, makes special allowances for the Amish community similar to what we're discussing.

Regardless, I'm not suggesting people can completely, in an instant, divorce themselves from any need for capital. But they can absolutely move away from it after that initial transition period. Some already have, or have tried.

I'd say there's more than sufficient material publicly available, if people really wanted to do it (particularly with the caveat above about it simply being plausible eventually). Though I think it's kinda funny that this is sorta an argument against the public school system, which confounds the usual left/right dynamic when placed in this context.

I dig. And I think this is what people really mean when they purport to criticize "capitalism." They're obviously not in a serious position to dispute the tremendous quality of life benefits that markets have demonstrated, so I suspect if we unpack it we'll find that they probably regard a capitalistic core as some kind of given for any alternative they might advance, albeit with some higher level of regular or social support programs.

I do, for one simple reason: it demonstrates that one is fundamentally coercive, and one is not, which is probably why one of these systems routinely devolves into totalitarianism, and the other correlates very highly with personal freedom.

This is pretty significant in and of itself, but it's especially so since the seed of this discussion actually came from a suggestion in The Shoutbox that capitalism is inherently hostile to individual rights, when by this (pretty fundamental!) metric, the exact opposite is true.

"Having actually heard the guy talk"? Dude, you're usually not this condenscending. He's basically praised as a free-thinker Messiah when he's pretty much like any rightwinger Christian conversative, with the same outdated views on sex, abortion and denial of atheism really existing (claiming they are really Christians who don't want to admit that they are). Not to mention he's really obsessed with violence for some reason. He constantly talks about hitting people in the face, sometimes in the form of direct threats. You can think what you want about Jordan Peterson, but don't assume I'm talking out of my ass.