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In the Beginning...
Originally Posted by mastermetal777
Glad you enjoyed the ride. How did you like the ending, btw? Without any spoilers, of course.
Finished Bioshock: Infinite last night, as promised. I was pretty tired, so my initial reaction to the ending probably was unhelpful. But having read through a summary of the story on the Wiki, and thinking a little more about it today, I'll say this about it:

There are some interesting high-concept ideas going on, but the ending was a bit too convoluted and/or wasn't delivered as well as it could have been. There's an extended sequence of "interactive supposition," so to speak, where most of the game's reveals are thrown at you, even though much of it isn't set up very well as you progress through the game.

It's almost impossible to talk about it without spoilers, so here goes:

WARNING: "Bioshock: Infinite" spoilers below
I understand, and even sorta appreciate, the reveal that because of a very specific decision, Booker DeWitt unknowingly creates an alternate reality in which he becomes Father Comstock. The problem is, it's somewhat unclear as you play the game what DeWitt's story is and why he's even sent to Columbia. It's not until the very end that we learn literally everything, rather than putting it together along the way.

In the beginning, we know Booker is haunted by his actions at the Battle of Wounded Knee, and we learn that there was a mysterious female in his life—Anna—and we're supposed to assume it's a divorced or deceased love interest. But at the end, we learn that Booker's memories are completely skewed: he doesn't actually remember that Anna was his daughter, and that Comstock (or himself from another reality) took Anna away so she could be safeguarded from him.

All of this falls heavy and hard in the game's final moments, and like I mentioned, very little setup (aside from a few extremely vague dreamlike flashbacks to Booker's apartment the day he "gave up the girl") are afforded us. So that felt a bit too immediate and high-level for me, especially since the majority of the game is a fairly straightforward tale about navigating a civil war between the Founders and the Vox Populi.


I also feel like it's another example of a video game ending that certainly has artistic value, but isn't much of a payoff for the player. Example:

WARNING: "Bioshock: Infinite" spoilers below
The designers obviously went to great lengths to ensure that you, the player, develop and experience a fairly organic relationship with Elizabeth, the companion character. She's so well fleshed out and the chemistry between she and Booker is so believable that you truly feel like you're forging ahead into danger and intrigue with another human being.

And then you get to the end, and all that personality that they infused into Elizabeth's character sorta melts away, and she becomes little more than a veritable plot device to serve up all the big, high-level narrative reveals. In other words, it's not Elizabeth any longer: it's the writer of Bioshock: Infinite speaking through her.

That, I really found to be unsatisfying. I admire the complex story they devised for the game, but the problem is that all the answers to your questions have already happened and end up only explained to you, not experienced. That sorta betrays the immersive role of the video game, I think, and subverts the real connection you make with the characters. The heart of the story, to the player, is Booker and Elizabeth. I wanted to face the endgame together; I didn't want her to suddenly become a detached soothsayer and expound on all of my mysteries and transgressions.


That's probably more than you wanted. Still a great game, if a little too grueling and violent. I'd also hoped they would maximize the 1914 feel, and in some ways they made it really work well in the game. But other times, it felt like just a convenient backdrop. But still definitely worth experiencing.



I don't remember asking you a ******* thing!
See, I'm one of those people who understand the ending perfectly. It might take a second playthrough to fully understand the subtle hints that the story gives towards the ending, but it's a very worthwhile and satisfying ending to me, because of the themes introduced.



The People's Republic of Clogher
I've just done something that I've been meaning to do for months - re-activated my iRacing subscription. I doubt I've got the space any more to have my full wheel setup but I got a good deal on one of these little guys.

Not been active in online racing for a few years and even then it was in rFactor, not iRacing. I'm gonna have to re-learn some stuff.
__________________
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan



A system of cells interlinked
Got Shadowmere!



(That's not my character, though)
__________________
“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell



The Thieves Guild stuff is pretty much the only thing tempting me to play through again. The way I did it last time, though, was probably the highlight of the entire game, for me.

Though I can't really imagine dungeon crawling as a character largely with high Sneak skill. When I watch videos of other people doing it it just seems so weird, running back and forth, hiding around corners. Very slow going.



A system of cells interlinked
The horse is from the Dark Brotherhood progression, which is FANTASTIC. By far my favorite progression in the game so far. I skipped the DB stuff on my first play, so it's nice to have the new (to me) content to enjoy on a second play.

I was a hero last time, and my character is ever so evil this time around...

My sneak is 78 right now, and I tend to crawl through dungeons, but the pace is pretty peppy...I can get through 2-3 enemies before they get a bead on my position, and then I shift out of sneak/archery into destro/onehand for close-up battles. The Aura-Whisper shout makes the sneaking a lot faster, as you know the position of all enemies as you go along.



Yeah, I always play as a good character, and I usually don't have the patience to play through after that (the sense of curiosity is usually exhausted by then, and that's the only thing that can make me want to explore a world for, like, 100 hours). But I might make an exception.

Hate the idea of starting over, though. I WORKED SO HARD FOR THIS DAEDRIC ARMOR. I LIKE ONE-SHOTTING GIANTS. I CAN'T GO BACK.



A system of cells interlinked
I played as a heroic male Breton in my first game, and I was sort of a spell blade/mauler type. The game plays out quite differently for evil characters, as you would imagine. The game is expansive in the writing to provide a very different experience on subsequent play-throughs.

The mod community is fantastic, and I have enough changes to the game installed to make it even more unique when compared to my initial game. Different music, armors, climate/weather and higher graphic resolution have made it quite a different experience so far.

That said, it's been since release that I played, so the game seems fresh to me again with the changes and the amount of time between games. A decent amount of time has passed since I last played.



Been on a Black Ops kick for awhile. I'm not that into the gaming community but I'm hearing a lot of talk about Bioshock. Thoughts on the game?



In the Beginning...
Originally Posted by ChuckDee
I'm hearing a lot of talk about Bioshock. Thoughts on the game?
Wonderful but very linear first-person shooter experience. Immense scope, great art direction and atmosphere, somewhat dated but still enjoyable gameplay with a few surprises. Convoluted story and ending.

Basically, you're getting something that's equal parts action-adventure movie, theme park thrill ride, and 1912 psychoanalysis study.

Also, it's fairly gruesome, depending on your preferred method of attack.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
I was most pleased to see my old friend Shadowmere again. He is the Lord of all horses and has been my friend through many dangers.

(also useful for slaying Dragon's completely by himself).



We've gone on holiday by mistake
Wonderful but very linear first-person shooter experience. Immense scope, great art direction and atmosphere, somewhat dated but still enjoyable gameplay with a few surprises. Convoluted story and ending.

Basically, you're getting something that's equal parts action-adventure movie, theme park thrill ride, and 1912 psychoanalysis study.

Also, it's fairly gruesome, depending on your preferred method of attack.
Does any1 else struggle to get into any Linear games after playing, Elder Scrolls/Fallout, total freedom types?



In the Beginning...
Does any1 else struggle to get into any Linear games after playing, Elder Scrolls/Fallout, total freedom types?
They're fun in their own way; it's nice to be treated to a scripted spectacle every now and again. But yeah, there's just something terribly restrictive about linear games now that we've been given so many great sandbox titles. And I mean that even in the way they're physically designed. It's maddening to look at an area and immediately know where you're not allowed to go.

That, however, assumes that every area a sandbox game will allow you to explore is interesting, fun, or necessary. It's not always true. For example, I think it's a bit weird that you can walk into anyone's house in Skyrim. What you find in every house is deliberately-placed loot and maybe a quest. The feeling of reality doesn't break entirely, but there's never anything to really do in there other than steal something. It's very "out of character" in the way it's designed. So why include it?

I really liked the approach of Shenmue, way back on the Sega Dreamcast, which gave you a lot of "sandbox-like" accessibility without ever feeling unrealistic with respect to the characters. You could call your friends on the phone, you could peruse public areas like shops and buy music tapes that you could actually listen to, and new areas opened up as you progressed in the story. Some of it was still fairly superficial, but in a lot of ways it was more immersive and interactive than even Skyrim, where you can still almost see the game designers working behind the scenes to serve the unending quest in modern RPGs for more and more loot.



We've gone on holiday by mistake
I was a massive Final Fantasy fan until I played Oblivion, after which I just couldn't get into the Linear RPG follow a strict path/story. Maybe I will never be able to again.

Yeah most of my Video game playing is spent on PC strategy games like Total War/ Civ 5. Recently XCOM and even that feels a little too linear compared to the old UFO Defense from 1994.

Obviously the Elder Scrolls/Bethesda games are not without their faults but that feeling of getting out of the sewer in Oblivion with a totally open world to explore and you set the tone and pace of your game (to an extent), has changed gaming for me personally.



I don't remember asking you a ******* thing!
I prefer the linear story if it's an action-type game, but RPGs need at least some form of free-roam aspects. Doesn't matter to me though, in the end. If it's a linear story, I accept it for what it is. Same with a game that allows branching paths and multiple outcomes. What matters is if I enjoy it or not.



The People's Republic of Clogher
I really don't have a problem with linear games, especially since non-linear is so damned hard to get right.

Look at the recent (before they went soft) Bioware stuff like Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age Origins - Yes, you can do certain quests in a different order and, after a while, you can travel the map but you're just going from one hermetically sealed location to another so it's hardly open world. They're still pretty special experiences with a high replay value though.

The first two Witcher games are even more constrained (and just as good) and CD-P have said that Witcher 3 will be open world. I just hope they've not bitten off more than they can chew with that. I can't imagine Geralt being plonked in the middle of the map and the player totally free to go and explore in the manner of a Bethesda game.

Structure can be good.

That said, I'm nearing the end of my umpteenth playthrough of Arcanum. It's open world in the style of the old Fallouts - You're able to explore the map apart from a couple of occasions where quests trigger new areas. Enemies aren't levelled like they are in Oblivion/Skyrim though, so you'll die loads and the game forces you to be a little more disciplined.

I'm playing a gunfighter/diplomat and it's damned hard...



A system of cells interlinked
Damn, the DB stuff is good. Definitely some of the strongest material in the game for me so far. It's odd playing a ice cold murderer, but it's also pretty damned fun in some regards. It has made me feel oogy a couple of times, but I got over it!

Game is running great, looks amazing, sounds fantastic... having a blast with it!

Ready for some harder enemies though, as I am cutting Dreadlords down with 2-3 sneak arrows at this point.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Install Duel. Or the combat part of SkyRe. Deadly Combat is another one but I've not tried that so can't vouch for it.

SkyRe on Adept is equivalent to the vanilla game on Master, apparently, but much better implemented. I've also had a blast with Duel on Expert.

Yep, the DB stuff is my favourite faction quest in the game, just as it was in Oblivion.