Las Vegas Attack 2017

I dont know if meds were involved either but the question always has to be asked IMO, especially with a medical system as woeful as you guys have in US. I did see some comments that he was highly agitated whatever that's worth.
Mateen's wife said he was bipolar for example but I dont recall if he was on scripted meds, just abusing steroids.

I know drugs affect different people differently, but I've always been a little skeptical about drug excuses. I've done a lot of drugs, yet I've never hurt anyone. I've got a temper, yet it does not control my behavior and has never been heightened beyond my control by drugs. It's simply not in me to physically harm anyone - I've never taken any amounts of drugs or gotten drunk enough where it drove me to hurt or want to hurt anyone or lose my ability NOT to hurt anyone.

There's just no chemical influence that can make me step over certain moral codes (like going from the only conditions that would make me willing to kill would be self-defence or defence of others to becoming a mass murderer, or intentionally killing any innocent person).

I kind of believe that kind of evil has to already be in someone - I don't think drugs ALONE can turn someone into a mass murderer (of course a tumultuous upbringing, affiliating with bad associations, poor role models, various traumatizing experiences, poor or abusive relationships, mental or emotional problems, series of unlucky circumstances COMBINED with drugs or addiction, could certainly cement evil into one's being & influence them toward violence).

Either do I...It's a numbers game.

Over prescribe psychiatric drugs to millions of people, many who are all ready very unstable, ....and the odds can go up, that one of them will snap. Of course the fact that they already had problems in the first place also plays a big part.

Even weed can cause psychotic episodes so no surprises pharmaceuticals can.

I think that gun data is terrible skewed (rather purposely or by ignorance), people often compare gun deaths in the United States to gun deaths in Switzerland, the U.K., France, etc when the state of Texas alone is larger than all of those countries. And within gun statistics, I've never seen a study breaking down those numbers (How many were suicides? How many were accidents? How many people were killed by illegal guns?). That's why I think it's less of a gun problem, thought I totally agree that some people shouldn't own guns, and something else affecting our society. In the 1920s/1930s (up until 1934), you could purchase a Thompson sub machine guns at sporting good stores, or even by mail, and Chicago presently, with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country, have more deaths than Prohibition Era Chicago (thought this is a different argument, I think the legalization of narcotics would see a sudden fall of violence in Chicago). But my point is, not that long ago, people had easier access than we do today to very powerful firearms, yet these mass shootings, outside of the gang wars of Chicago and New York, were unheard of.

The Chicago have strict gun control laws doesn't really matter when there's really lax gun control laws five miles outside of Chicago. It's incredibly easy for criminals there to get guns, and i believe the majority of the Chicago gun deaths are by gangs.

I'm not making any Gun Control argument, i don't have an opinion on that since i never grew up around guns. Just don't think the "but Chicago has strict gun control laws" argument really works.

I see your argument, I just don't understand the solution of strict gun control, because somewhere, someone will find a source for anything. And to be fair, I don't think most gun control advocates are for any kind of total disarmament, just common sense gun registration/regulation, which I don't think is that offensive to the Second Amendment.

I dont think any amount of drugs can cause a person to slowly amass an arsenal of weapons, meticulously plan out a murder spree and then successfully pull it off. All while living a normal life and showing not even a HINT of dysfunction to associates and neighbors and even immediate family members. Thats not "unstable" to me. Thats careful long term cold calculation. But what do I know. Clearly there was something "wrong" with him. But Im not sure what yet... Can you hide being a sociopath for your entire life?

In regards to the gun issue, I find it a little sickening that the day this event occurred republicans were considering a bill making silencers legal at the behest of the NRA. thankfully this event was enough for them to quickly stuff it into a drawer for now. But the clarion call of the NRA is a strong one so Im sure it wont be long before they revisit the need for gun owners to be allowed to silence their kill shots.

__________________
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies...

I agree with Gangland on gun control being a non sequitur....America in the past 1930s-40-50s, etc...had a large number of guns per capita, and yet there wasn't the 'popularity' of mass shootings back then. These mass shootings are mostly a phenomenon from the last few decades.

Guns haven't changed lately nor has the accessibility of them gotten easier. Semi automatic guns were available back in the early 20th century, so that's not a new twist either.

So instead of looking at guns as causing mass shootings, lets look at the people who 'pull the trigger' as being the cause. So what is causing these people to go out in a 'blaze of glory'? Answer that, and you'll have yourself a large part of the puzzle solved.

Hell yes. Jeffrey Dahmer?
How about Martin Bryant who was the catalyst for our gun restrictions.
3 out of every 100 men you come into contact with will have an anti social personality disorder but not necessarily diagnosed as such. The numbers are probably even higher.

But they can sell converters, don't they?

I think society is more indifferent... Before people wanted to be on TV; now they wanna be on TV, internet, social media, etc etc.... I also think people need to love something, someone, perhaps have a role model, but it seems we're going backwards in this rat race.

True, but this same logic would seem to undermine gun control arguments in general, since the laws we pass aren't going to apply to Mexico.

Granted, it's easier to drive across state lines than across national borders, but obviously lots of firearms already make it across, and that'd only get worse if we made the prospect more lucrative by heavily restricting access to them here.

You know I think there's some truth there.

Good question, I wondered about that too?

Are these converters being sold legally for turning semi auto into fully auto? Or are they being sold for something else and then being illegally modified? @gunslinge45 might know.

Yeah as i said i wasn't making a gun control argument, just saying that i don't think that specific one works.

http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...ee0479fa455644

I've never even held a gun let alone fired one. I really think the glorification of the gun and gun culture is part of the rise of gun deaths. Kids exposed non-stop to violence on TV, in movies and in video games has got to have an effect (or is it affect?). Plus a lot of kids don't have a strong role model around to keep them from getting involved in gangs, etc. I would really like to see as much outrage at the high murder rates in cities like Chicago like there has been at situations like this most recent one in LV.

They do background checks (or they are supposed to) when you buy a gun, right? Do they only look for criminal records or do they look at mental health history and medications as well?

We had guns when I was a kid but strictly for use on my dad's properties, not suburbia, mostly for hunting rabbits and foxes. Havent touched one since I shot a bunny when I was about 8 nd never forgave myself, but I was taught gun safety. How many people with guns these days are taught to respect them, I mean for goodness sake, idiot parents leaving guns lying around in houses, cars and most recently a day care centre? Unbelievable.

I cant buy the violence on tv, music etc argument. I'm not saying it isnt possible, just that I watch a lot of violence and am a pacifist. My husband listened to death metal growing up and plays violent computer games - couldnt hurt a fly. I think if someone has a predisposition to kill people or animals no amount of fictional violence will compel them, but I'm not a shrink so just my personal opinion. This kid for exmple - I cant buy that Dexter inspired him to do that

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...red-girlfriend

Re: your question concerning background checks - in aus they do; no idea about USA. Even before the restrictions came in there was a schedule of antecedents that prohibited ever receiving a permit which included drugs (mental health history as well if I recall correctly) and certain criminal offences.

Not easy getting a firearm here these days if you want to do it legally, however, if I stupidly decided I needed a gun I could get one by 5pm today.

I am very hesitant to blame psych meds. As someone who deals with the mentally ill more then I should, it is being off meds that is usually what makes people call me to deal with them. And even if the person is so out there off his meds in the thralls of a full blown psychotic breakdown where they have lots all control, they are incapable of a complex plan like this. Grabbing a knife or some simple weapon sure, but not a deliberate plan such as this.

I think when we have a big picture it is going to be something beyond a simple talking point on guns, drugs, or mental illness.

__________________
Fear and Loathing in MoFo... The Gunslinger 45's Top 50 Favorite Films

In the 10 Ring: Gunslinger45's reviews

I think a tougher/more interesting question is whether the rise in mass shootings and the rise in prescription drugs share a common source.