Lost (Possible Spoilers)

A system of cells interlinked

03-01-10

Originally Posted by jrs

Since when did Jack have a son named David? And exactly who is his mother?

Since the tangent universe was created?

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Sedai

A system of cells interlinked

03-01-10

Originally Posted by Pyro Tramp

Sorry dude! Only extends to the episode just on, always assume i'm behind everyone else, watching online.

Oh my fault entirely. I am still used to Lost being on Wednesday night, and was trying to catch up on the thread before I went home to watch...Too bad it's on the night previous now!

Yoda

Administrator

03-01-10

Yeah, I don't get it. Is jrs just reading rumors and spoilers and not watching the show, or what?

Random thoughts now that I'm all caught up:

Love the contrast between Jacob's little area (the lighthouse) and Flock/Esau/MiB's (the cave). The lighthouse is, well, light; the cave is dark. The lighthouse is technological; the cave is natural. You walk up into the lighthouse; you climb down into the cave. The names on the lighthouse are ordered; the names in the cave are scrawled about randomly.
The introduction of David continues to heighten the possibilities associated with the names of the candidates. Note that the names are always last names, not first names. So "KWON" could be Sun, Jin, or their child. Similarly, "SHEPHARD" could be Jack, or perhaps even David now. It could even be Aaron, who's Christian Shephard's son, depending on how the names are determined.
Lots of possibilities for the blonde kid. Fits that he would be a young Jacob, or a slightly older Aaron. Or...wait for it...both! Kinda tickled by the idea that Aaron is Jacob, and will travel back in time at some point to become him. It would certainly explain why Aaron's so important, no?

Another possibility is related to some rumors floating around which jrs already posted (one of them sans spoiler tag, for some reason; careful, dude) which I'll hide here just in case:

View Spoilers
WARNING: "Lost" spoilers below
Apparently one spoiler-y episode summary implies that he's Jacob's son. We haven't see anything else to support that to this point, of course, but it's plausible. Obviously it would exclude the idea that Aaron and Jacob are one and the same, but it wouldn't exclude the possibility that Aaron is Jacob's son. It might not mean he's his son in a perfectly literal sense, after all, and it'd be so very Lost-y to have something resembling an immaculate conception.

A lot of people have been toying around with this idea because, in season 1, Claire notes after the crash that she hasn't felt the baby in days, and maintaining a healthy pregnancy after something like that is tenuous, to put it mildly. Now that we see people can be "claimed" after death in some form, it's interesting to think that perhaps the baby did die, and was "claimed" by Jacob while still in the womb, and is therefore his "son." I don't think this is what's going on, but it's a pretty creative explanation.

Apparently one spoiler-y episode summary implies that he's Jacob's son. We haven't see anything else to support that to this point, of course, but it's plausible. Obviously it would exclude the idea that Aaron and Jacob are one and the same, but it wouldn't exclude the possibility that Aaron is Jacob's son. It might not mean he's his son in a perfectly literal sense, after all, and it'd be so very Lost-y to have something resembling an immaculate conception.

A lot of people have been toying around with this idea because, in season 1, Claire notes after the crash that she hasn't felt the baby in days, and maintaining a healthy pregnancy after something like that is tenuous, to put it mildly. Now that we see people can be "claimed" after death in some form, it's interesting to think that perhaps the baby did die, and was "claimed" by Jacob while still in the womb, and is therefore his "son." I don't think this is what's going on, but it's a pretty creative explanation.
I think there are two particularly strong possibilities as to who will serve as Jacob's replacement. Jack is the obvious one, in terms of narrative. But this show thrives on misdirection, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's...Richard. This fits well; he's been given the gift of agelessness by Jacob, and he's been around forever, and has followed Jacob loyally without requiring any explanation. It makes sense to me that Richard is being groomed for this role, and that Jack is either going to be the next Richard (ageless and advising people), or else something else. For all Jack's done, it certainly seems more fitting that Jacob's replacement would have to have gone through a somewhat lengthier process than Jack has, and Richard fits that bill. I'd put even money on it being one of these two against The Field.
As I mentioned above, I'm fairly convinced that David's mother is Juliet. They've made a very specific point of mentioning the mother without showing her, and since our first instinct is to assume that it's Sarah. I see no reason to make us wait to learn something that most of us would naturally assume anyway, so they're clearly building towards a reveal. And if they're building towards a reveal, it must be someone interesting/significant. And given how many people we've already seen in the Flash-sideways, Juliet is by far the best remaining choice.
Still like the idea of Rose and Bernard being the Adam & Eve skeletons. It fits nicely: they've made their peace with their circumstances and have decided to stay on the island, anyway. And, amusingly, they were found with a white and a black stone. Doubt that was meant to signify race when it was first written, so it makes for a very elegant way of wrapping things up. Other possibilities are, of course, Sun and Jin (together forever in death after being separated for years now in life), or Penny and Desmond.
I think the writers are going to spend all flippin' season trying to make us doubt that Jacob is really the good guy, and "Esau" really the bad guy, but I think that's exactly how it is. They wouldn't be dropping little hints about our preconceived notions if they were actually hoping to flip that on us, for one, and it just feels like they want to plant that seed of doubt in our mind, about who we're rooting for. Notice all of "Esau"/un-Locke's discussions about how Jacob always asks people to do things without telling them why. He's trying to manipulate the people who have been loyal to Jacob by preying on their frustrations with him, but he's also manipulating the audience by preying on our frustration with being told so little. It also taps into the natural doubts and frustrations of anyone with any belief about God.

Anyway, I think this keeps happening, but in the end it's all just there to plant the seeds of doubt, and Jacob really is the good guy. All the hallmarks are there: Esau/MiB wanted to murder him, but Jacob didn't seem to want to murder Esau. He allowed himself to be killed, calmly. He's calm about everything and clearly seems to care for everyone. He appears as himself, and doesn't take different forms. He's, uh, not a giant smoke monster going around killing people all the time. And Hurley's on his side, and the thought of Hurley being on the wrong side for the endgame is just unthinkable at this point.

Lots of other thoughts, but that's plenty for now.

Last edited by Yoda; 03-04-10 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Fixed typo.

jrs

BANNED

03-01-10

Originally Posted by Yoda

Yeah, I don't get it. Is jrs just reading spoilers and not watching the show, or what?

Uhhhhhh, no. What gives you this ridiculous assumption?

Yoda

Administrator

03-01-10

Originally Posted by jrs

Uhhhhhh, no. What gives you this ridiculous assumption?

Er, the fact that you seemed to have no idea that Jack had a son named David, and asked Sedai about it. When I read that, I "ridiculously" assumed that you hadn't seen the episode where it was revealed. If there's another way to interpret your question, I'd love to hear it.

jrs

BANNED

03-01-10

Originally Posted by Yoda

First of all, I didn't specifically ask Sedai about anything. Secondly, anybody who saw that episode would say to themselves "where did David come from"?

Finally though the mystery of the numbers has been solved...4,8,15,16, 23 and 42. As revealed in "The Lighthouse", Jacob has assigned each of his potential replacements (or candidates) a digit.

Locke:4
Hurley: 8
Sayer: 15
Sayid: 16
Jack: 23
Kwon: 42

But is the last number for Sun or Jin? We'll find out soon enough.

jrs

BANNED

03-01-10

Yoda

Administrator

03-01-10

Originally Posted by jrs

First of all, I didn't specifically ask Sedai about anything. Secondly, anybody who saw that episode would say to themselves "where did David come from"?

I didn't, and everyone else here seems to have gotten it. He didn't come from anywhere special; it's just another change in the Flash-sideways. You posted someone else's list of them earlier, and this is another. The awkward phrasing made it sound like an actual question, as evidenced by the fact that both Sedai and myself answered it.

Anyway, whatever. Re: the numbers and which KWON it is: it might not even be either. There's speculation to that effect in my post earlier today, and probably earlier in the thread, though I haven't specifically checked.

Hattori_Hanzo

Registered User

03-02-10

Originally Posted by jrs

Finally though the mystery of the numbers has been solved...4,8,15,16, 23 and 42. As revealed in "The Lighthouse", Jacob has assigned each of his potential replacements (or candidates) a digit.

Locke:4
Hurley: 8
Sayer: 15
Sayid: 16
Jack: 23
Kwon: 42

But is the last number for Sun or Jin? We'll find out soon enough.

I have to think because Jin was saved by Claire that it's him. I'm wondering of this is another "you can't hurt him" scenario (like we had with Flocke and Sawyer), plus Sun seems to be on the island pretty independently of what any island residents wanted. She just came back since she held Ben at gun point.

I wonder if the other occurrences of the numbers are just coincidence or if there is going to be some other reason they keep popping up?

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jrs

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03-02-10

Creators of ABC's Lost told fans that they're fighting over what goes in and what stays out of the series finale, which they're now writing.

Co-creator and executive producer Damon Lindelof described writing the finale as completing a jigsaw puzzle, and there are only a few pieces left in the box. But the staff still has to be sure which ones they want to put together. "Now we just have to start putting things into place and say, 'Are we sure that that's what we wanted to do?'" Lindelof said over the weekend in interviews before a panel at the Paley Center for Media in Beverly Hills, Calif. "'No, let's talk about that a little bit longer. Are we sure that's what we wanted to do? Yes, absolutely. In fact, that's what we have to do, because we set it up two years ago.'"

Lindelof was joined by executive producer Carlton Cuse and cast members. Before the panel, Lindelof, Michael Emerson, director Jack Bender and writers Edward Kitsis and Adam Horowitz spoke to a group of reporters and revealed some spoilers for the rest of the sixth and final season.

Bender is prepping to direct the final episode and make it the ultimate episode of Lost. "I'm not viewing it as just an episode," Bender said. "It's the finale, but at the same time, every episode has to be great." Horowitz added that season finales are always different, so this would be the best of the six season finales. "Whenever we've approached a finale, there's a slightly different feel," Horowitz said. "We approach it as two hours instead of one. We're conscious of it as writers of the episodes leading up to it and laying down some things and to pay it off."

Emerson said to expect more Sideways Ben, who is a meek schoolteacher. "It's interesting where this thing goes," Emerson said. "We don't go that far with it. It doesn't last that long. I mean, it's the last season. There's little to be done, but it was exciting to play, and I think it has a nice grown-up irony contained in it. He's completely non-manipulative. He is in fact a poor manipulator. It's as if Ben was made up of a bunch of personality blocks, but the blocks got scrambled. Some blocks that used to be big are now little blocks. Some are barely perceptible anymore. It's good that way."
Also expect Jacob's motivations to become clear, finally. Lindelof promised answers to Jacob's search for a new "candidate." "We now have information that he had this lighthouse that he was able to see these people, into their lives, and for some reason, whatever reason, he chose them," Lindelof said. "We'll find out what that reason is in the coming weeks, but that's kind of all I can say about it right now."
Libby returns! Before the sixth and final season began, Lindelof and Cuse revealed that Cynthia Watros would return as Libby. We haven't seen her yet, but Bender revealed when she's coming. "Probably toward the second half of this season," Bender said. He also hinted that Libby could be in more than one episode. "Yeah, maybe," he teased.
As for the new flashes into the sideways universe, Horowitz advised viewers not to get too comfortable with the new format. "That's the format so far," Horowitz said. "We're calling them the Sideways, and that's what this year is. So far, yeah, we're looking at different characters, but as we have in seasons past, we reserve the right to do what we want."
You don't know the rules of the Sideways yet: Don't be so sure that the universes are safely independent of one another. "I mean, Charlie died in the island, but he seems to be alive in the Sideways," Lindelof said. "Boone died on the island, he seems to be alive in the Sideways. What happens if you die in the Sideways? That's an interesting question."
Who's the mother of Jack's musical prodigy son, David? Julie Bowen, the actor who played Jack's ex-wife in previous flashbacks, told reporters at Paley's Modern Family event that she thinks she's the mom. Others think it could be Juliet. Lindelof is just amused that it has become such a source of speculation.

"If it's relevant to the story who David's mother is, we will answer it," Lindelof said. "But its relevance is yet to be determined. What's relevant to us might not be relevant to you and vice versa. What's irrelevant to us might be very relevant to you, but we're writing our version of the show, and we can't really be put in a position to apologize for it. We'll take our lumps, but at the end of the day, we all know and we've said publicly on many, many occasions that we can't possibly answer every question that people have."

Lost airs Tuesdays at 9 p.m. on ABC.

Source: Sci-Fi Wire

jrs

BANNED

03-03-10

Austruck

The Adventure Starts Here!

03-03-10

I'm at the point now where I don't even read any jrs posts here -- just in case there are spoilerish things in them. Sorry, dude, but I don't even want to read semi-official discussions about the producers and writers because stuff slips out.

I don't mind fellow viewers like us discussing the plot and making theories -- as long as those viewers aren't bringing into the discussion things that were leaked out in any way (either officially or unofficially). Perhaps that's just me but I'd rather be completely in the dark as to the motives and concerns of the writers/producers right now.

And no sneak peeks for me, either. That's just how I roll.

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jrs

BANNED

03-04-10

jrs

BANNED

03-04-10

View Spoilers

WARNING: "Lost" spoilers below

Michelle Rodriguez Returning to Lost

The deceased Lost cameo list just got a little longer. Michelle Rodriguez will reprise her role as Ana Lucia Cortez in the final season, TVGuide.com has confirmed.

Michael (Harold Perrineau) killed Ana Lucia in Season 2. She returned in Season 5 when Hurley (Jorge Garcia) was able to see dead people.

As first reported by Entertainment Weekly, Rodriguez will appear in at least one episode. ABC would not comment on when she will return or if her cameo will take place in the sideways universe.

Other dead Losties set to return this season include Perrineau, Maggie Grace, Cynthia Watros, Rebecca Mader and Jeremy Davies.

Source: TV Guide

Last edited by Yoda; 03-04-10 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Spoiler tags added.

Yoda

Administrator

03-04-10

Please wrap those kinds of reports in spoiler tags. They definitely give something away about upcoming episodes, even if it's not necessarily a huge thing.

Pyro Tramp

got mad game, yo

03-07-10

Big questions into the season- Jughead, Flash Sideways and Jacob v MiB.

Here's a thought, when they initially went back into time, there would have been duplicates of each Lostie at that point in time. My idea is these doubles are the ones in the FS. I'd guess to make them relevant they'd need to merge, this is conjecture but i'd say this happening is to do with whoever wins the 'war' between Jacob and MiB. Ok, so the other main theme from the time travel is Whatever Happened, Happened and Losties as Variables. In my theory, both outcomes happened so it did explode in one timeline and didn't in the other. MiB seems to offer free-will and Jacob believes in gently pushing to Destiny. So whoever wins, means that the Destiny timeline aka WHH exists and if MiB wins they stay on Island.

Could swap sides around but that's my current idea. Of course the next episode focussing on

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WARNING: "Next Episode's Character-centricity" spoilers below

Ben and how he managed to leave the Island and Sayid having not shot him and 'turning in the temple could change that theory entirely

Anyone know when Richard's episode it?

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Yoda

Administrator

03-07-10

I believe Richard's episode is on the 23rd.

Re: the 1977 child versions of everyone being the ones in the Flash-sideways. I've definitely heard that theory, and it's one of the better ones floating around, to my mind. The idea being that the show could never give the characters a proper send-off after all this, so the only way to do so is to show us a series of flash-forwards all season long that are the ending, without us realizing it.

Re: fate/free will. Still not sure about this. I do think Jacob is on the side of fate, but both seem to do or say things from time to time that make it seem like it's the other way around. A tad confusing.

One last thing: while I do think "Whatever Happened, Happened" is probably accurate, we don't know for sure. It's still just something Daniel Faraday said, and he's already modified it a bit by saying he'd "forgotten the variables." All we know is that the show's creators insist we won't have a Grandfather Paradox to contend with.

Pyro Tramp

got mad game, yo

03-07-10

Yeah, i'm becoming less hooked on the fate/free-will as the episodes go onto to suggest a more literal good vs evil. I think the destiny part is linked to Jacob- the FS is showing a world where he hasn't interfered thus some things are still the same indicating a set future, to an extent. MiB's hook definitely seems to be a choice and the outcome will hinge on Jack's final decision.

I've always been in the WHH camp but i'm unsure to why they've not addressed Jughead so far this season, either way I do want Faraday to return. Seems unlikely with the ditching of Time Travel this season. And REALLY want Desmond to return already, it's already been stated the Island isn't finished with him. Wonder what his final role will be as can't see it being part of the black v white war brewing.

Hattori_Hanzo

Registered User

03-10-10

The thing I don't know about good vs. evil is that we don't know which side is which, which is what makes me think that that's not going to be the focus. Usually you'd know which side was good and which side was evil right away, but since we're still in the dark, I think we're in a situation in which the good/evil is relative.

Think of Star Wars, you know right away who is good and who is bad, within 15-20 minutes of the start, yet we still have no idea...

jrs