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Saying one thing wrong about who said what does not make me a complete idiot about evaluating a film based on my own principles. I'm sorry I got you all hot and bothered about my one piece of false information, when knowing the right line in the film wouldn't have changed the claim that I made anyway. What you are saying is completely incoherent what I was trying to say. Why don't you start evaluating the films when you watch them instead of masturbating to Christian Bale and Health Ledger's glorified importance to the film (by the way that is legal to say because you made that kind of judgement earlier).
The Dark Knight (2008)
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I'll tell you what Brandaddy since this conversation has denigrated to throwing around insults and whatnot. I'll actually take the time to tell you why for one I was irritated and short with you in the first place. You can take it or piss off for all I care.
The original question in this thread was as follows...
To which one of your first posts on this board was...
So even though you didn't literally insult the original person that started the thread you did sh*t on it pretty heavily with your negative response. Instead of spreading around your negativity why bother?
The man or woman is asking a relatively interesting question. Its well written and thoughtful. A question you obviously don't know the answer to, so again I say. Why bother pissing on the thread? Nobody is trying to tell you that you don't have a right to your opinion but I also have an opinion and so does everyone else so if you don't like mine, tough.
By the way welcome to MoFo a place where we don't always agree. *Gasp* Get used to it.
The original question in this thread was as follows...
So here's my story:
I saw the Dark Knight this summer on opening night and, of course, loved it. I think the movie is probably going to rank very high in the movie hall of fame because frankly I find that it's a work of art. My favorite part though wasn't a scene or character, but a line that caught my attention and hasn't left my mind since the second I heard it.
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
That line just seems so...real and haunting. I was wondering if there are any hardcore movie buffs out there that know if the line was part of the movie or if it was taken from some philosopher or writer? If anyone could help me that'd be fantastic.
THANKS!
I saw the Dark Knight this summer on opening night and, of course, loved it. I think the movie is probably going to rank very high in the movie hall of fame because frankly I find that it's a work of art. My favorite part though wasn't a scene or character, but a line that caught my attention and hasn't left my mind since the second I heard it.
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
That line just seems so...real and haunting. I was wondering if there are any hardcore movie buffs out there that know if the line was part of the movie or if it was taken from some philosopher or writer? If anyone could help me that'd be fantastic.
THANKS!
I thought that line was really cheesy, in fact I thought everything batman said to be really lame.
The man or woman is asking a relatively interesting question. Its well written and thoughtful. A question you obviously don't know the answer to, so again I say. Why bother pissing on the thread? Nobody is trying to tell you that you don't have a right to your opinion but I also have an opinion and so does everyone else so if you don't like mine, tough.
By the way welcome to MoFo a place where we don't always agree. *Gasp* Get used to it.
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The theme of human nature was very contradictory. The joker was trying to prove that any good person can be changed into a horrible person, but when I saw the boat scene, where everybody turned out to be good person and they all were saved, the theme totally contradicted itself because later in the film Harvey Dent became evil. I don't know what Christopher Nolan was trying to say.
When things stick to conventions of their genres it really bores me. It feels like I have seen the movie so many different times before.
There was so much hype about Heath Ledger as being the joker. It's almost like they wanted the joker to be godlike by the lack of exposition on his character, yet he was captured twice. The movie would have been a lot better (to me anyway) if he wasn't captured at the end.
I think brining back a character after they supposedly died, like James Gordon, is a huge slap in the face, not an original twist. Really lame.
I know he had to disguise his voice, but it was really funny to me for some reason.
When things stick to conventions of their genres it really bores me. It feels like I have seen the movie so many different times before.
There was so much hype about Heath Ledger as being the joker. It's almost like they wanted the joker to be godlike by the lack of exposition on his character, yet he was captured twice. The movie would have been a lot better (to me anyway) if he wasn't captured at the end.
I think brining back a character after they supposedly died, like James Gordon, is a huge slap in the face, not an original twist. Really lame.
I know he had to disguise his voice, but it was really funny to me for some reason.
The boat thing was pretty cheesy and a bit contrived, not to mention making pretty big generalised messages about the inherent good in 'everyone'. Did not like that but one bit, seemed really contrived way of having the Joker's ideology beaten. Couldn't understand why the threat of the Joker caused Gotham to launch into such an uproar and all leave, maybe i need to be American to 'get' that 'climate of fear' but couldn't accept every citizen would leave the city. That didn't happen immediately after 9/11 did it?
Also, Alfred's only purpose seemed to be to spout lines that summarised the films thematic and moral messages, very lazy scripting- so i agree with you on that point.
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I just read his/her review 
He's GOT to be having a laugh. Either way, it's the funniest thing i've read all day!
Man I love this site, lol.
He's GOT to be having a laugh. Either way, it's the funniest thing i've read all day!
Man I love this site, lol.
Well, as far as I'm concern The Dark Knight is no doubt the best batman film franchise ever made so far... Namely for the factors intellectual, cunning, mind bending, etc... Plus the action scene and the performers of course... Have to pay credit as well to the late Heath Ledger who made The Joker alive in this film...
I give this film 10 over-all...
I give this film 10 over-all...
HI guys I watch Dark Knight movie. This movie is very intresting movie.Dark night is my favorite movie.I like Batman .This movie is very comedy.
The Dark Knight, a series of batman movies, reveals two types of humanity figures. Joker, a cruel criminal, tried to use the selfish nature of human beings in order to kill the people in the scene of two cruises with bombs. He said that they would be killed if they did not explode the other cruise. However, the people trusted one another and did not kill the other people unlike Jokers expectation. However, the hero of Gorden, Hardy, became had two faces, good and evil. This shows the reality of human beings selfishness. Also, it tells that anyone can be changed in negative ways and cannot be judged by humans since they all are the same as sinful beings. I think this movie well expresses about the concept of the humanity in the view of theology.
A series of Batman movies? Also, it isn't Hardy, but Harvey Dent. Yes, it's a good flick!
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I haven't seen The Dark Knight, but I am definitely going to see it soon because I've heard it is rumored to be on the Oscar list.
hey mistawac, while i don't have a complete answer on whether this was a previous philosophical expression or rather clever scriptwriting, i do aplaud the expression all the same. It's like the comment made in the previous Batman movie, "Why do we fall? So that we learn how to get back up again."
I find it rather cool to get these lil snippets of wisdom now and again and sorry i cannot directly answer your question, though in my limited knowledge, i cannot say i have heard it previously, whether in a movie or written form.
I find it rather cool to get these lil snippets of wisdom now and again and sorry i cannot directly answer your question, though in my limited knowledge, i cannot say i have heard it previously, whether in a movie or written form.
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I'll tell you what Brandaddy since this conversation has denigrated to throwing around insults and whatnot. I'll actually take the time to tell you why for one I was irritated and short with you in the first place. You can take it or piss off for all I care.
The original question in this thread was as follows...
To which one of your first posts on this board was...
So even though you didn't literally insult the original person that started the thread you did sh*t on it pretty heavily with your negative response. Instead of spreading around your negativity why bother?
The man or woman is asking a relatively interesting question. Its well written and thoughtful. A question you obviously don't know the answer to, so again I say. Why bother pissing on the thread? Nobody is trying to tell you that you don't have a right to your opinion but I also have an opinion and so does everyone else so if you don't like mine, tough.
By the way welcome to MoFo a place where we don't always agree. *Gasp* Get used to it.
The original question in this thread was as follows...
To which one of your first posts on this board was...
So even though you didn't literally insult the original person that started the thread you did sh*t on it pretty heavily with your negative response. Instead of spreading around your negativity why bother?
The man or woman is asking a relatively interesting question. Its well written and thoughtful. A question you obviously don't know the answer to, so again I say. Why bother pissing on the thread? Nobody is trying to tell you that you don't have a right to your opinion but I also have an opinion and so does everyone else so if you don't like mine, tough.
By the way welcome to MoFo a place where we don't always agree. *Gasp* Get used to it.
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I've seen him around a few times since then. I don't know, I guess we got off on the wrong foot.
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Hi mistawac!
I think the line is original.
It probably resonates because it neatly encapsulates a theme or philosophy used in many of the darker genres… the idea that heroism/niceness, when unappreciated, leads to a resentful, vengeful yet justified villainy: a kind of “well, stuff you then…” attitude. [A view with which we can all – to some extent – sympathise, even if we don’t usually put the feeling into action!]
In literature, examples might include the original Frankenstein’s monster who, hated for his appearance, turns from being – seemingly – a nice guy into a tormented, vengeful killer; and ‘Paradise Lost’ where Satan, originally one of God’s favourite angels, gets thrown to Hell where he defiantly exclaims: “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.”
However, in all these – and in your excellent, specific example – there is a deliberately false argument to expose the truth of a character: good does not turn into bad if it is truly good. The philosophy is actually a self-deluding justification for aberrant behaviour. [And one of the reasons why, in Shelley’s remarkable book, the monster, wracked with guilt, kills himself. Ironically, he understands the human condition better than the “real” humans.]
Confusion and delusion seem to be common themes in Nolan’s scripts/films. Many of the apparent contradictions in his work may be seen as externalisations of the inherent, and fragile, inconsistencies of human motivation, thinking and recall.
I think the line is original.
It probably resonates because it neatly encapsulates a theme or philosophy used in many of the darker genres… the idea that heroism/niceness, when unappreciated, leads to a resentful, vengeful yet justified villainy: a kind of “well, stuff you then…” attitude. [A view with which we can all – to some extent – sympathise, even if we don’t usually put the feeling into action!]
In literature, examples might include the original Frankenstein’s monster who, hated for his appearance, turns from being – seemingly – a nice guy into a tormented, vengeful killer; and ‘Paradise Lost’ where Satan, originally one of God’s favourite angels, gets thrown to Hell where he defiantly exclaims: “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.”
However, in all these – and in your excellent, specific example – there is a deliberately false argument to expose the truth of a character: good does not turn into bad if it is truly good. The philosophy is actually a self-deluding justification for aberrant behaviour. [And one of the reasons why, in Shelley’s remarkable book, the monster, wracked with guilt, kills himself. Ironically, he understands the human condition better than the “real” humans.]
Confusion and delusion seem to be common themes in Nolan’s scripts/films. Many of the apparent contradictions in his work may be seen as externalisations of the inherent, and fragile, inconsistencies of human motivation, thinking and recall.
The Dark Knight is an awesome movie, Heath Ledger's performance was breathtakingly original and awesome. Also Bale was great as always.
My only hope is that they dont bring the Joker charactor back with some actor trying to imitate Ledgers role as IMO no one will be able to capture the role as he did.
My only hope is that they dont bring the Joker charactor back with some actor trying to imitate Ledgers role as IMO no one will be able to capture the role as he did.
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Hi mistawac!
I think the line is original.
It probably resonates because it neatly encapsulates a theme or philosophy used in many of the darker genres… the idea that heroism/niceness, when unappreciated, leads to a resentful, vengeful yet justified villainy: a kind of “well, stuff you then…” attitude. [A view with which we can all – to some extent – sympathise, even if we don’t usually put the feeling into action!]
In literature, examples might include the original Frankenstein’s monster who, hated for his appearance, turns from being – seemingly – a nice guy into a tormented, vengeful killer; and ‘Paradise Lost’ where Satan, originally one of God’s favourite angels, gets thrown to Hell where he defiantly exclaims: “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.”
However, in all these – and in your excellent, specific example – there is a deliberately false argument to expose the truth of a character: good does not turn into bad if it is truly good. The philosophy is actually a self-deluding justification for aberrant behaviour. [And one of the reasons why, in Shelley’s remarkable book, the monster, wracked with guilt, kills himself. Ironically, he understands the human condition better than the “real” humans.]
Confusion and delusion seem to be common themes in Nolan’s scripts/films. Many of the apparent contradictions in his work may be seen as externalisations of the inherent, and fragile, inconsistencies of human motivation, thinking and recall.
I think the line is original.
It probably resonates because it neatly encapsulates a theme or philosophy used in many of the darker genres… the idea that heroism/niceness, when unappreciated, leads to a resentful, vengeful yet justified villainy: a kind of “well, stuff you then…” attitude. [A view with which we can all – to some extent – sympathise, even if we don’t usually put the feeling into action!]
In literature, examples might include the original Frankenstein’s monster who, hated for his appearance, turns from being – seemingly – a nice guy into a tormented, vengeful killer; and ‘Paradise Lost’ where Satan, originally one of God’s favourite angels, gets thrown to Hell where he defiantly exclaims: “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.”
However, in all these – and in your excellent, specific example – there is a deliberately false argument to expose the truth of a character: good does not turn into bad if it is truly good. The philosophy is actually a self-deluding justification for aberrant behaviour. [And one of the reasons why, in Shelley’s remarkable book, the monster, wracked with guilt, kills himself. Ironically, he understands the human condition better than the “real” humans.]
Confusion and delusion seem to be common themes in Nolan’s scripts/films. Many of the apparent contradictions in his work may be seen as externalisations of the inherent, and fragile, inconsistencies of human motivation, thinking and recall.
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@thread starter:
That line is a catcher. Transferred to reality you can put it on basically any given hero figure in history. Our nowaday heroes, those who we like to tell tales and stories about, are for one part celebrities: And as soon as someone adores them, someone else tries to make them look bad, evil, misbehaving and over-the-top.
As soon as the dogs get the chance to tear the exposed flesh apart, they will do so.
That line is a catcher. Transferred to reality you can put it on basically any given hero figure in history. Our nowaday heroes, those who we like to tell tales and stories about, are for one part celebrities: And as soon as someone adores them, someone else tries to make them look bad, evil, misbehaving and over-the-top.
As soon as the dogs get the chance to tear the exposed flesh apart, they will do so.