Star Wars: Episode VIII – The Last Jedi

Basically the film made sure it was as unsubtle as possible to appease a few idiots and still it wasn't enough for them

Lol Larry, lol

Nope.

__________________
Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

__________________

212 555 6342

Pierce & Pierce: Mergers and Acquisitions

Patrick Bateman
Vice President

358 Exchange Place New York, N.Y. 10099 FAX 212 555 6390 TELEX : () 4534

Like which things?

Han and Leia's relationship, Yoda teaching Luke, the "hallucination" scene where Luke fights Vader in the woods, the intense duel and connection between Vader and Luke, the insane "I am your father" plot twist, Cloud City, ... I could pinpoint a hundred of specific things that are great about Empire.

It has its awesome scenes that will remain awesome when the film is rewatched, but I'm pretty sure that The Last Jedi will be seen as a lesser Star Wars film after more people have rewatched it a couple of times. There's way too much filler and uninteresting/frustrating stuff happening.

I'd also like to restate my earlier question:

__________________
Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019

That actual subject comes up again in this film and it's handled brilliantly as to why.

This movie is a mixed bag to be sure. What I did love was how they broke cliches and there were many plot turns that went in directions I wasn't expecting at all. It's a very heady and even a smart film.

What I didn't like was how they handled Luke for the entire film. That was flat out piss poor any way I try and slice it.

Overall this leveled out to a 7/10 effort for me. A lot to like, a lot to dislike and far too much of it was emotionless and hollow for some reason. Either my expectations were too high and nothing could have met them or else they missed the emotional mark more often than not.

The perfect Christmas gift for those that like to throw stones

Saw the film, loved it. I loved the misdirects, and the unexpected deaths. And THE major death near the film's end was not a waste, it was

I didn't mind that The films have stated in the past (especially by Yoda in The Empire Strikes back) that the Force binds the galaxy together and that it is everywhere. So a person not blood-kin to a person strong in the Force can still be strong with it.

And ordinary people like Finn can be heroes even if they don't have special powers. He was trained to be a fighter with the Stormtroopers, so he can fight. Han Solo was a rogue smuggler who learned to fight and fly and get out of bad situations, yet nobody trashed him in the original trilogy. I don't see why Finn can't be a hero also. He was

I've always wanted to see

__________________
"Miss Jean Louise, Mr. Arthur Radley."

Honestly I suspect your dealing with a few issues, I wouldn't be surprised if straight corruption(maybe not payoffs but acknowledgement that Disney advertising and access is often key to critical media) but also I think you have critics that increasingly review based on hype and rather simplistic views of what films should be.

Hype wise this film was obviously though the moon and I'm guessing a lot of critics didn't want to be the odd person out lambastering it. Equally I think there's a kind of elitism from many that considered a blockbuster should only provide fast paced "turn you brain off" entertainment to the uncultured general public which I think underestimates what a lot of people demand from such films and why the likes of the originals and Lord of the Rings are so highly regarded.

I suspect as well that relative to TFA audience expectations have shifted, coming off of the prequels I think that just like Trek standards had been set very low and an Abrams style thrill ride would be welcomed more warmly. Now that's gotten past though expectations are rising, especially after Rogue One returning more to the style of the originals last year just as expectations went up for Trek Into Darkness both as a sequel and because it drew direct comparison with Wrath of Khan.

I need better reasons to hate a movie than "I expected X but got Y" and being told to arbitrarily care about an expanded universe I know next to nothing about.

Moreso that recycling plot elements this actually seemed like the least original thing about the film to me, it did the twist in Empire and tried to constantly throw in similar ones but for me few of them really had much impact.

You look at the "new direction" and really what changed? Luke's removed from the picture(just as he was by Abrams) and Kylo's promoted but character and setting wise I really do not see much difference. This is not for me a film like Empire that leaves the audience demanding to see what happens next and really as with The Force Awakens seems to kick the can down the road again.

Part of the problem IMHO is that I think Empire was a film that had a much more developed setting and characters to push against. Luke's twist worked because we were invested in his previous heroic dreams and the Han/Leia romance worked because we'd seen there prickly relationship in the original. Here though Rey, Finn and Poe simply didn't have much interesting about them for me beyond the element of mystery to the former which as with all the unknowns Abrams built his film on seemed like it ultimately had no plan behind it.

He's a reasonably competant entertainer but for me Abrams is a rather a fraud and a parasite on franchises like this and Trek rather than the savour he's talked up as, He gives good short term box office but at the cost of poisoning the well with his empty cartoonish style that's disrespectful of the existing property even as it mines it for nostalgia.

Good luck with that. Those reasons are all the fanboys know how to pound into their keyboards.

Well in broader terms I think it was a seriously messy film with a confused plot, a highly questionable tone and some dodgy performances/dialog.

Not without its strengths as I think the Kylo material was certainly interesting and really seemed like it should have been the main focus at the expense of a lot of the rest of it, Driver was also excellent performance wise.

In terms of Luke specifically I think its not just a case of "spoiling a characters happy ending" but rather showing the character as a whole in a fashion that undermines why many people liked them in the first place. This Luke failing Kylo for example was not a shock as he seemed to have lost all of the courage/wisdom we'd seen built up in the original films.

Stuckman to me is incredibly arrogant in the way he dismisses rival opinions, basically anyone who disagrees is some kind of idiot fanboy to be mocked. Sadly that's par for the course with a lot of youtube reviewers who need to get by on abuse of others over strength of analysis, at least Red Letter media are amusing though.

Down to a 5.1 on Metacritic user score now from 5.4 yesterday morning. Phantom Menace is a 6.0 lol

__________________

Cloverfield is the only thing that I really like (in this case, love) that he has been involved in, but it appears to be a fluke in that sense (but both films are ****ing great!)

I agree that he's a franchise parasite, but a successful one at that

__________________
Still kicking and it hurts.

I can get why some will accept the awful treatment of Luke and Snoke and the line they ve taken, and you should have a bit of understanding for the EU universe fans and what they ve had to put up with here.

However I'm not sure there can be any defence for the main plot as you tried a rebuttal earlier. The 2 fail space battles, the awful run out if fuel catch up nonsense, then the yawn subplot to find the code breaker. Then they all end up in a cave with a hopeless speeder defence. It was all just badly planned out and boring really. Silly slow bombers that have to be over target to drop bombs in zero gravity. Just bad.

About as much as I expect you to understand what I'm presumably going to put up with in the weeks to come, it seems. As I noted in another thread, Snoke isn't that interesting a character in his own right (he might as well be another Count Dooku or General Grievous) so I figure the route they took with him was thoroughly justified within the greater context of this particular story. The same goes for Luke, whose actions in this are not all that surprising but aren't nonsensical or a "betrayal" of the character.

Besides, if your counter-response to my defence is a patronising little "you tried" then I daresay my energy is better directed elsewhere.

Question

__________________
"I don't want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me" (Frank Costello)