Matrix Reloaded Review

Yeah yeah I loved the movie and all that stuff so here are a few things I'd like to say

Ok there are stacks of messages the movie is trying to get across to us in obvious form or cryptic form but one that I enjoyed was Morpheus being told by Neo at the end that his whole prophecy stuff wasn't true and just another method of control. A lot of people were saying that the first Matrix was based on Christianity and how Neo was Jesus and how he was resurrected and Cypher being Judas and this and that. Then in the second movie we find out that it was all just another method of control which is EXACTLY what Christianity is today...another method of control and keeping people in order and stuff (which is fading anyways). Those of you who are Christians or whatever will not understand but those of you who see beyond the narrow-minded boundaries will understand exactly what I'm talking about and I think the brothers passed that message across nicely.

I'm heading towards the direction that most people are heading and think Zion is a matrix too but I don't think its a matrix within a matrix or outside a matrix... I think its all just one huge matrix. I promise that if the only reason Neo stopped those sentinals was because he has some superhero powers and ends up being another daredevil, spiderman or superman then I will burn my copy of the matrix and matrix reloaded when it comes out. But based on the intelligence presented by the brothers in the first two I find that highly unlikely.

I think that the exiles of the matrix are equivalent to the people in zion. They are both sets of anomalies. Zion is the anomaly of the real world and the exiles are the anomaly of the computers. I also think Neo is the anomaly of the anomaly of the real world and that Smith might be the anomaly of the anomaly of the computers.

Anyways take care all!

An interesting post.....a few comments:

Alright so far.....

There we go! So I'm to understand that,
A) Because The Matrix shares some parallels with Christianity, it is a direct reflection of it.
B) Because of point A, I'm to now believe that Christianity is false because of what the Matrix Reloaded says.
C) Because I am a Christian I won't understand, but those of other religions will.
D) All Christians are narrow-minded.

Now, this could've been fashioned into a nice little commentary on religion as a whole, and the blindness that goes into some peoples faith, etc, but instead you ended up attacking Christianity.
Nice....

So you'd destroy a perfectly good movie because its sequels sucked? Thats just silly. You shouldn't base how much you like the Matrix upon how the second sequel ends!

Er.....thats close to what I think.

On the whole, this was a very fun post to reply to.

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Alright there Liquid? Nice to have you on board.

...things i agreed with...

-yeah, i was happy to see the bros knock the delusional/dogmatic aspects of organised religions. I agree with you that that is what they're trying to do at the end when Morpheus is all crushed now his one-size-fits-all explanation is no-longer valid. (i agree with Beale as well tho that most christians will have got or can understand that assertion Only fundamentalists of any creed are the ones you really need to heed methinks. Personally i'm un-aligned with any of the organised mind-tribes)

-your general anomaly categorisation makes sense.

...things i'm not so sure on...

-I still think the bros could possibly resolve this without resorting to a matrix-within-a-matrix etc (tho i'm almost alone on this ) - Your it's-all-matrix thing makes me wonder how the physical world has been transferred into code!? Surely there's some vestige of our old reality on which this new-order is based? If it's all extending matrix that makes Neo even more of a boring-superhero if you ask me. If Smith and Neo's anomylous natures allow them to somehow bridge the gap between biological and mechanical/code, that leaves a platform for some great extended metaphors and (also some kick-ass fight scenes, in classic superhero/nemesis roles )

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While he is welcome to be on board, I doubt he will post anything more. He strikes me as one of the many Matrix fans who stopped in for 1 quick post and left.

Good man.

Thats closer to what I thought.

Just thought i'd put my imaginary money behind the Oracle actually supporting the Neo-ites in this encarnation of the matrix. In part because of this section:

"The Oracle: Because you didn't come here to make the choice, you've already made it. You're here to try to understand why you made it. I thought you'd have figured that out by now.

Neo: Why are you here?

The Oracle: Same reason. I love candy.

Neo: But why help us?

The Oracle: We're all here to do what we're all here to do. I'm interested in one thing, Neo, the future. And believe me, I know - the only way to get there is together."

...

PLUS this bit:

"The Oracle: Seems like every time we meet I've got nothing but bad news. I'm sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me. Good luck, kiddo."

Altho most of what she says can be seen as her goading neo into reaching the machine-mainframe and restarting the process (discovered by her o'course), i'm still tempted by the idea that this time she's looking for a new improved solution? A new symbiotic relationship between humans and machine - she is after all the human-understanding-program. She's another of those that crosses over AI/code with human psychology/limitations etc.


I'm also tempted by the idea that Smith very much represents (cause-n-effect/linear) "logic" gone mad. i.e. his rational for life/thought has been hit/altered by something it can't comprehend i.e. the all-encompassing holisticism of Neo's "code". Therefore he's compelled to break rules but simultaneously he rationalises everything down to a destructively denial-filled decision: kill the one that tried to kill him. His purpose is to remove Neo's "purpose", permenantly. Note this bit...:


"Smith: Our connection. I don't fully understand how it happened. Perhaps some part of you imprinted onto me, something overwritten or copied. That is at this point irrelevant, what matters is that whatever happened, happened for a reason.

Neo: And what reason is that?

Smith: I killed you, Mister Anderson, I watched you die... With a certain satisfaction, I might add, and then something happened. Something that I knew was impossible, but it happened anyway. You destroyed me, Mister Anderson. Afterward, I knew the rules, I understood what I was supposed to do but I didn't. I couldn't. I was compelled to stay, compelled to disobey. And now here I stand because of you, Mister Anderson, because of you I'm no longer an agent of the system, because of you I've changed - I'm unplugged - a new man, so to speak, like you, apparently free.

Neo: Congratulations.

Smith: Thank you. But as you well know, appearances can be deceiving, which brings me back to the reason why we're here. We're not here because we're free, we're here because we're not free. There's no escaping reason, no denying purpose - because as we both know, without purpose, we would not exist.

Smith 2: It is purpose that created us,

Smith 3: Purpose that connects us,

Smith 4: Purpose that pulls us,

Smith 5: That guides us,

Smith 6: That drives us,

Smith 7: It is purpose that defines,

Smith 8: Purpose that binds us.

Smith: We're here because of you, Mister Anderson, we're here to take from you what you tried to take from us. Purpose."



Interesting that Neo's own powerful anomaly-ness (which has potentially freed him from the "purpose" of his design by the architect, it seems), also carries a very destructive concurrent effect. i.e. the creation of agent smith - the potential to reveal it's "yang" side (or whichever it should be ). Well i think it's interesting anyway

Nice.

I'm a big fan of the Matrix series and I've been following this thread with interest but until now I've not felt compelled to write. Please do not insult my intelligence by making statements which are gross generalizations, such as Christians being unable to think beyond 'narrow-minded boundaries'. If you have any ounce of sensitivity, you would be wise to refrain from making statements which would obviously offend others. I respect people of all religions, and those who are agnostics or free-thinkers. I am not averse to having constructive and intelligent discussions regarding the merits of conforming to organised religions or otherwise, for there are valid arguments on either side, but to insult a particular group of people (be it religious, political, racial, or whatever) is downright rude, immature and shows a shocking lack of respect for others.

The_Rebel

..but....haven't we forgotten something? I don't remember reading anything about the implants/updates that Neo and the other Zionites receive being mentioned (i.e. the kung fu abilities etc). It occured to me that they add an extra dilemma to the whether-or-not-Zion-is-real conundrum.

i.e. What do the Zionites think they're doing when they "upload" info into their brains. Now there's no evidence that these skills extend to the zion-world, but surely there's a strong suggestion of data being passed into their minds via the Machine's jack-in technology etc. - Altho this is very explainable in the double-matrix explanation - what do the Zionites beleive??

This world is of course based on incredibly advanced technology - i.e. we're no where close to creating machines with potential for emergant intelligence - let alone ones that can become self-replicating [and indeed, develop/inhabit their own mental limitations based on the nature of their darwinistically selected physical makeups - i.e. the over-reliance on constants/purpose etc [comparable to only certain predominant aspects of human thought processes]).

They've already posited the idea that the machines have understood every biological aspect of the human psyche (including structures/processes above and beyond our current understanding - i.e. the [consciousness-requiring?] power emissions etc etc). The implants thing suggest SUPPLEMENTATION is possible i.e. more than just stimulating processes, they can alter them via DATA. This seems to be the clear suggestion. [EDIT: Actually, i understand if this bit of lunch-time frippary isn't that clear. What i'm saying is: alteration of human minds thru data implants is possible - above and beyond stimulating the minds by providing the Matrix-input.]

Basically, i just thought i'd have one last stab at justifying the Zion-is-real argument (b4 the movie comes along and probably lays out the more likely matrix-within-a-matrix-trick). What i'm trying to say is that they seem to have already laid out an internal logic which suggest data-biology interchange. Considering a major theme seems to be human-technology symbiosis in the modern world, i just still find the potentials in this analogy attractive. Shame that, considering that this is science fiction, many fans don't seem to want to let it fully jump the boundaries of our current knowledge/practices/realities.

Remember, they're still leaving the door open to the unknowable and/or the soul etc (if that's what you want). i.e. the fact that amongst all these phenomenal understanding-and-control conceits - Neo and others stand out as the un-understood and un-predictable.

Now: a final ramble that ambled thru my brain coz of some of this (EDIT: STOP HERE THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY ADDLED - and that should really include me too ) :

First off: there's an old philosophical argument called the Cartesian problem (or summink - i've forgotten) i.e. the idea that the soul is untangible and the brain physical. Personally, if there is a "soul", i firmly believe it's made of something (and indeed - i believe the "mind" is based in the brain, but affected/also-composed of surrounding phenomenon [electromagnetic-fields etc that extend outside our fleshy-shells etc possibly], and indeed the body. The body is a filter for all information that arrives in our minds for a start. Never under-estimate context ). Personally, i don't believe the immortal soul exists - but i do believe there are many physical processes which affect our minds etc [and indeed which may re-integrate with the "world" after we die etc - having been the sustenance or sources of our beings in the meantime] which we are yet to discover or fully appreciate. Either way, i don't think the soul should be categorised as all things which we can't know or measure. This seems to happen occasionally. What i'm basically arguing for is a non-religious interpretation of the unknown. There's plenty still to learn about the nature of our own minds (and theoretically, the more we learn, the more efficiently we'll be able to extend our knowledge, i.e. we'll have taken more steps towards the unattainable goal of objective assessment). At the end of the day: call it soul, call it the unknown, call it that-which-pure-logic-is-incapable-of-perceiving-by-default..... this films also about that i reckon [heheheh, that was so nonsensical - try the next bit )

Another little thing is.....

Neo's become "more" than the Architects's apparent definition of the One by recognising his interrelation with others i feel (i.e. saving Trinity etc. - The Architect wanted to set him up as the One "winner", the One controller, the One-off who must make the "final" either-or decision alone. I like to think that the kiddie's buddist-spoon interpretation is another/"truer" slant on the One i.e. we are all One. At the moment he saved Trinity he realised the contradicting ideas that "there is no Trinity" - so he was able to "bend"/heal her - while very much being driven by his passionate, over-time-yet-here-and-now love for her. Is this a solution for the distancing/action-less-ness inherent in some buddist practice? i.e. A cartoon-representation of trusting in the (global) knowledge contained within your unconscious promptings, to allow decisive still-"logical" action? Hmm, probably taking it too far )

Ah well, who knows (well, we all do in some ways. Now someone convince the Bros to share their knowledge with the rest of the One on the net )

whoops, didn't realise i'd written so much b4

just pondering whether Neo's going to be unable to kill Smith and so must somehow establish an equilibrium with him?? Even tho Smith's being lined up as the enemy of man-and-machine in the trailers (and all round bad guy), something in one of the Oracle-voice-overs made me think him and Neo were perfectly matched. Smith's rise has been dependant on and interdependant with Neo's (Neo created him etc - so of course, the classic closure would be for him to kill him too. But....) Altho Neo might win his way to the Architect's door or what have you, even be able to contain Smith - i'm wondering if he might not be able to do away with him completely. Classic Ying-yang thing instead i.e. they have to establish an equilibrium. Never know :shrugging-smilie-that-needs-inventing: )

Nah, he'll probably just whack him. (symbolically killing all the bad sides of humans and technology, o'course ) We'll see soon enough... [and i reckon i've hedged my bets enough now that at least one of my predictions has gotta turn up ]

(I won't know for a while tho - i haven't bought a ticket yet, and i've also signed up foolishly to run my work's cinema night on the 5th [X-Men dogdammit - not enough Taoism or kung fu ]. So if there turns out to be two matrices this has been my last [overlong] post on the subject )

IT SUCKED!!!!!

No, you just didn't like it. Others found it interesting and entertaining, if not overwrought and a bit dumb.

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I'm gonna have to agree with Sedai. This movie was a bit over the top and there was the rave scene (What was that?), but it was entertaining with all of its effects, and that was the point right. If you think the first Matrix was some sort of masterpiece understand that it was not made for the existential philosophy, but for the special effects. If you want a movie with great philosophy check out Existenz by David Cronenberg, which came out undershadowing the Matrix. If you want the first one from this little phase, check out Dark City. The Matrix was the best out of all of them just because it had all the action and it had Morpheus, but the other two are worth a look.

Matrix Reloaded was just one of those sequels, what did you expect? There really wasn't much to follow the first with if you think about it.

Right, although I did dig all the stuff with The Merovingian, and the interesting religious implications they tied into it. As for the rave scene, It was misplaced in this film, and belongs in something like Go. Also, the rave scene was shot terribly, with all sorts of off-speed shots and **** editing. Probably the worst segment of the three films. Still, I like watching the film when I am up for cyber-punk-ish stuff. eXistenZ IS interesting stuff, if a bit overly sexual for my taste, but that Cronenberg for ya. Still I gave eXistenZ high marks in my review, and think it's well-made and very interesting. Need to watch it again. Dolar, have you red Neuromancer or Snow Crash? That stuff is the seminal Cyper-Punk stuff in my mind, and well worth the read, if just to see where films like The Matrix, Strange Days, and eXistenZ get their ideas from. I do think, however, that The Matrix does have quite a bit of philosophy imbedded in it, flimsy philosophy, but it is there. Again though, it was all in the older works mentioned beforehand, as well as the works of Harlan Elison and Issac Asimov...The Matrix just presents it in yet another way...

I have read Snow Crash but the other one I have not, i'll check it out thanks. I completely forgot that the Merovingian is in the second Matrix and I did love that scene, the most out of all of them, (Monicca Belucci = Goddess). The worst part of the movie besides the rave, which I think was there as a joke, almost like the Andy and Larry telling the audience that we'll watch anything they throw at us, was the ending when it said "to be concluded." Now i'm not going to be too overly dramatic about this, but this almost made me hate the matrix for the sheer fact that it was so original and then it obviously plagiary from the Back to the Future Series. Maybe this was just giving credits to another film, but I hate that stuff.

Lordy, looking back on my rabid postings in this thread i'm so glad i've kicked my daily ganja habit .

Hey, Snow Crash, i remember that. Loved some of the ideas, like the Sumerian and proto-language stuff (but man the guy's writing style was pants )

Brain Freeze!!!
Make the bad Golgot go away.

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Toga, toga, toga......


Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

ganga??!! you mean 'ganja? sounds familiar!!

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this movie was a disappointment compared to the first, the last matrix being the worst one. it was all downhill after the first kick ass one.

what a piece of crap i disapointed i can basically do a summary of the movie in like 60 seconeds," i am the chosen one", the machinces are comin, omg i can fly, the machines are here ahhhh, we must destroy him die, neo will return someday. inbetween that were a bunch of pointless gun fights