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Yeah, I agree movie-Zuckerberg comes off pretty clearly as a louse in Fincher's version. He's kind of a mock-tragic character, a shallow but highly talented person who rises to great heights at the expense of friendship and love. Seems pretty straightforward to me. There are parts that I liked and parts that I didn't about the dialog and story. On balance I thought it was okay, not great, having less to do with wanting character hooks to hang my sympathy (or hatred) on than feeling that the movie kept promising some insight or deeper meaning -- or at least something beyond a simplistic dramatization of classic character flaws -- without ever really delivering. Maybe I just listened to the hype a little too much, but basically I thought some of it was very entertaining and some of it wasn't.
The Social Network
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Hey eulian, serious question. I notice that The Dark Knight is one of your favorite films, and I like it plenty too. Doesn't that film bother you with what it says about human nature and how even the "good" can be so easily turned to the "bad"? Isn't the ending of that film extremely unpleasant if you take it too seriously? Or is it OK because it's not based on "real characters"?
And to lines, even with the unnecessary last line of dialogue, I still believe The Social Network to be the best-written film (with the best dialogue) of any film I can think of this "millenium" (HA!)
And to lines, even with the unnecessary last line of dialogue, I still believe The Social Network to be the best-written film (with the best dialogue) of any film I can think of this "millenium" (HA!)
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I have to disagree. Zuckerberg is not the hero, and the film is definitely not telling us that it was all worthwhile. It's telling us the exact opposite. Consider the very last shot:
I can't think of a clearer way for the film to show us that, even though he got what he wanted, he still isn't really happy. I don't know if this describes the man himself or not, but in the context of the film he isn't laughing all the way to the bank.
WARNING: "The Social Network" spoilers below
Zuckerberg has "won" in every financial sense of the word, yet he still a) fails to connect with the female lawyer and b) ends up sitting on his computer, refreshing the page again and again, desperate to see if his ex-girlfriend will accept his friend request. He is utterly alone.
I can't think of a clearer way for the film to show us that, even though he got what he wanted, he still isn't really happy. I don't know if this describes the man himself or not, but in the context of the film he isn't laughing all the way to the bank.
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I sense that people here actually consider it a downside of the film that Zuckerberg is neither a hero nor a tragic hero in any classic sense.
Except that tragic heroes are bloated, stage-worthy, archetypes---not real people. The real Hamlet was probably mainly concerned with much more mundane things than Shakespeare's cosmic, divinely guided Hamlet was. The fact that Zuckerberg was essentially concerned with sex only attests to this human, all too human aspect.
It's also debatable whether Zuckerberg was "desperate" in the end. It seemed a consciously ironic move on his part, since he was throughout the film a consciously ironic person. For me, it was more of a reflective admittance of his true motivations.
Except that tragic heroes are bloated, stage-worthy, archetypes---not real people. The real Hamlet was probably mainly concerned with much more mundane things than Shakespeare's cosmic, divinely guided Hamlet was. The fact that Zuckerberg was essentially concerned with sex only attests to this human, all too human aspect.
It's also debatable whether Zuckerberg was "desperate" in the end. It seemed a consciously ironic move on his part, since he was throughout the film a consciously ironic person. For me, it was more of a reflective admittance of his true motivations.
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"Loves them? They need them, like they need the air."
"Loves them? They need them, like they need the air."
I actually think that both Yoda's and planet's interpretations are both valid and therefore the film is very strong in trying to keep an even keel as far as not creating good guys and bad guys. In the real world, most people aren't "good" or bad"; they just are. If anything, the ending brings the film full circle to what happened at the beginning.
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I have to disagree. Zuckerberg is not the hero, and the film is definitely not telling us that it was all worthwhile. It's telling us the exact opposite. Consider the very last shot:
That small ending isn't enough for me to really nail down a legitimate character arc or catharsis. So, I agree with you Planet News. The ending is debatable.
Also, I LOVE Dark Knight!!!! But it is VERY different from this film. Showing how easily a good person turns bad is ok. I mean, look what happens to him at the end. His fall from grace in anything but glorified, it's condemned. It's Batman's sense of morality that the film is based on, his sense of right and wrong that drives the heart of the screenplay. Ultimately TDK is about the fight of good vs evil, its classic. It puts a modern spin on it, but the core is there. Social Network is about evil vs evil lol
The struggle is him FIGHTING the joker, not allowing him to seduce him and getting rich with him, like Mark does (as portrayed by Jesse Eisenberg).
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Nice analysis, and I arrived at that point too. But the lawyer mentions how this is just a "speed bump." Almost as if it's a minor hiccup, before and after he laughs all the way the bank. And I would buy the girl thing too, but I just don't care much about her because she's in two scenes of the film and we're never told that he really loves or cares that much about here. You could gather, arguably, that he just wants to show off to her. In her exit scene, he asks if she knows what he's built. After he blows him off (like she SHOULD), he immediately tells Eduardo to expand, and specifically puts BU on the list (the school she attends).
That small ending isn't enough for me to really nail down a legitimate character arc or catharsis. So, I agree with you Planet News. The ending is debatable.
That small ending isn't enough for me to really nail down a legitimate character arc or catharsis. So, I agree with you Planet News. The ending is debatable.
It's true that the lawyer says it's just a speedbump, but it's a speedbump on the way to financial success, not personal fulfillment. The entire film is about people who can't distinguish between the two, I think.
I actually agree that he might just want to show off to her, but I think that fits in perfectly with the idea that he's not happy. If someone wanted to contact an ex just to shove something in their face, I'd probably think that they were unhappy, petty, and probably not entirely over them.
Interestingly enough, I had a very similar conversation with my dad a month or two ago. He didn't particularly love the film because he, too, didn't feel the movie was really punishing or condemning Zuckerberg, so you're not alone in wondering about that. It's pretty clear on my side of the equtation, but I admit that the movie can be pretty subtle about it, and obviously there's a lot to wade through.
Also, I LOVE Dark Knight!!!! But it is VERY different from this film. Showing how easily a good person turns bad is ok. I mean, look what happens to him at the end. His fall from grace in anything but glorified, it's condemned. It's Batman's sense of morality that the film is based on, his sense of right and wrong that drives the heart of the screenplay. Ultimately TDK is about the fight of good vs evil, its classic. It puts a modern spin on it, but the core is there. Social Network is about evil vs evil lol
The struggle is him FIGHTING the joker, not allowing him to seduce him and getting rich with him, like Mark does (as portrayed by Jesse Eisenberg).
The struggle is him FIGHTING the joker, not allowing him to seduce him and getting rich with him, like Mark does (as portrayed by Jesse Eisenberg).
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A bit, yeah. But while the girl doesn't show up in many scenes, I think it's pretty clear she's the driving force of all that he does. The fact that the film begins with their breakup and ends with him pining for her underlines this pretty emphatically. If he doesn't really love her (and you can make a good case that the character's notion of love is pretty juvenile and underdeveloped), then he certainly wants what she represents to him, which is acceptance.
It's true that the lawyer says it's just a speedbump, but it's a speedbump on the way to financial success, not personal fulfillment. The entire film is about people who can't distinguish between the two, I think.
I actually agree that he might just want to show off to her, but I think that fits in perfectly with the idea that he's not happy. If someone wanted to contact an ex just to shove something in their face, I'd probably think that they were unhappy, petty, and probably not entirely over them.
Interestingly enough, I had a very similar conversation with my dad a month or two ago. He didn't particularly love the film because he, too, didn't feel the movie was really punishing or condemning Zuckerberg, so you're not alone in wondering about that. It's pretty clear on my side of the equtation, but I admit that the movie can be pretty subtle about it, and obviously there's a lot to wade through.
Love that you guys are talking about this; I'm just finishing up an essay about this very topic. It's been 90% done for, literally, about 9 months now, but I think it'll go up soon.
It's true that the lawyer says it's just a speedbump, but it's a speedbump on the way to financial success, not personal fulfillment. The entire film is about people who can't distinguish between the two, I think.
I actually agree that he might just want to show off to her, but I think that fits in perfectly with the idea that he's not happy. If someone wanted to contact an ex just to shove something in their face, I'd probably think that they were unhappy, petty, and probably not entirely over them.
Interestingly enough, I had a very similar conversation with my dad a month or two ago. He didn't particularly love the film because he, too, didn't feel the movie was really punishing or condemning Zuckerberg, so you're not alone in wondering about that. It's pretty clear on my side of the equtation, but I admit that the movie can be pretty subtle about it, and obviously there's a lot to wade through.
Love that you guys are talking about this; I'm just finishing up an essay about this very topic. It's been 90% done for, literally, about 9 months now, but I think it'll go up soon.
Altho distinguishing between financial success and personal fulfillment sounds pretty darn good. I wish this movie would've been about it lol
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Zuckerberg comes off like an ass in this movie
Now I really hate the movie. Good article here about some of his backward dealings. businessinsider.com/facebook-movie-zuckerberg-ims
In no way do I think Zuckerberg is an angel (after all, he he did start facebook) but to me the movie was borderline slander/character assassination and not a balanced biopic at all.
All that aside, from a storytelling perspective they tried too hard to make it moody and dark. Characters had no range, you knew exactly who everyone was within minutes of being introduced to them; jocks, nerds, party girl, nice guy etc. And to that point, in 2010 hollywood still has this idea that programmers/developers/nerds ('nerds' even the word is so 80's) in general are little conniving hobbits sitting around dark rooms plotting some sort scheme to take advantage of 99% of the population who are clearly mentally handicapped. It was just silly to say the least.
Don't shoot me.
I did not watch it yet,but what can be interesting about Facebook? Is that a documentary or a movie?
It's a movie based on real events.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
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It's a movie based on real events.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
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It's a movie based on real events.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
And it's not "about Facebook" in a meaningful sense, it's about its creation and the fighting that went on over it. It's not 2 hours of people checking out each other's Walls or something.
It's really, really silly when people try to dismiss The Social Network with statements like this. If you want to find out what's supposed to be interesting about the company's history, watch the film.
I have not criticize a movie because i have not watched it yet...i was just asking.
This isn't directed at anyone here personally and it isn't even about The Social Network specifically, but I would like to add a few thoughts on the observation I've made many times over the years about certain film watchers: I've noticed time and again that there are some people who just don't like movies with unlikeable main characters. They either cannot or choose not to distinguish between disliking a character and disliking a film.
It baffles me. There are plenty of movies I enjoy that have main characters that are despicable or even downright evil. I find the idea of only watching characters who are nice or "good at heart" or at least redeemable in some sense to be totally boring. To me, it would be like only being able to eat vanilla ice cream and nothing else. Sure, I like ice cream but *blech*. I like a wide variety in films and I like to see all types of characters portrayed.
I enjoy likeable characters, yes, but the idea of disliking a movie because I disliked a character makes no sense to me. A-holes exist in real life, and I never understood some people's inability to separate their dislike for the A-Hole from their appreciation for the film itself.
It baffles me. There are plenty of movies I enjoy that have main characters that are despicable or even downright evil. I find the idea of only watching characters who are nice or "good at heart" or at least redeemable in some sense to be totally boring. To me, it would be like only being able to eat vanilla ice cream and nothing else. Sure, I like ice cream but *blech*. I like a wide variety in films and I like to see all types of characters portrayed.
I enjoy likeable characters, yes, but the idea of disliking a movie because I disliked a character makes no sense to me. A-holes exist in real life, and I never understood some people's inability to separate their dislike for the A-Hole from their appreciation for the film itself.
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This isn't directed at anyone here personally and it isn't even about The Social Network specifically, but I would like to add a few thoughts on the observation I've made many times over the years about certain film watchers: I've noticed time and again that there are some people who just don't like movies with unlikeable main characters. They either cannot or choose not to distinguish between disliking a character and disliking a film.
It baffles me. There are plenty of movies I enjoy that have main characters that are despicable or even downright evil. I find the idea of only watching characters who are nice or "good at heart" or at least redeemable in some sense to be totally boring. To me, it would be like only being able to eat vanilla ice cream and nothing else. Sure, I like ice cream but *blech*. I like a wide variety in films and I like to see all types of characters portrayed.
I enjoy likeable characters, yes, but the idea of disliking a movie because I disliked a character makes no sense to me. A-holes exist in real life, and I never understood some people's inability to separate their dislike for the A-Hole from their appreciation for the film itself.
It baffles me. There are plenty of movies I enjoy that have main characters that are despicable or even downright evil. I find the idea of only watching characters who are nice or "good at heart" or at least redeemable in some sense to be totally boring. To me, it would be like only being able to eat vanilla ice cream and nothing else. Sure, I like ice cream but *blech*. I like a wide variety in films and I like to see all types of characters portrayed.
I enjoy likeable characters, yes, but the idea of disliking a movie because I disliked a character makes no sense to me. A-holes exist in real life, and I never understood some people's inability to separate their dislike for the A-Hole from their appreciation for the film itself.
About The Social Network; I finally got around to see it the other night and I thought it was very good - very clever filmmaking. I really liked the idea of emphasizing the quirky sides of Mark Zuckerberg. Jesse Eisenberg is no pretty boy actor and I love the casting of him as Zuckerberg. This film is a good example of when the main character isn't exclusively likeable but actually quite a bit of an *******. It makes us, members of the human race, feel a bit better about ourselves, I suppose.
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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".
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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.
The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".
--------
They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.
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