A scary thing happened on the way to the Movie Forums - Horrorcrammers

1) Do you believe that what Mia sees at the end (that the kid has gotten better and they're leaving the hospital) is real?

2) If you do believe it is real, do you think that he recovers because Mia sacrificed himself?

I am a bit torn on these two questions.

On one hand, I think that for Mia, hell would be the family just walking away and leaving her behind. We also saw that he was getting worse and not better in terms of the self-harm/possession. Would he really just . . . get better after some time?

And if he did get better because of Mia's sacrifice, then what do we make of her "mother"?

1) Do you believe that what Mia sees at the end (that the kid has gotten better and they're leaving the hospital) is real?

2) If you do believe it is real, do you think that he recovers because Mia sacrificed himself?

I am a bit torn on these two questions.

On one hand, I think that for Mia, hell would be the family just walking away and leaving her behind. We also saw that he was getting worse and not better in terms of the self-harm/possession. Would he really just . . . get better after some time?

And if he did get better because of Mia's sacrifice, then what do we make of her "mother"?

First of all, I eventually learned during this film that whoever these spirits are, they lie an awful lot and seem to have a great deal of power inasmuch as they can appear as whomever and make Mia see pretty much whatever they want her to (while she's alive.) They tricked Mia into killing her father, and nearly tricked her into killing the kid.

So, was the kid really in hell - being tortured by these hell-spirits like the little girl showed he was to Mia? If they had him like that, then why the urgency regarded to them trying to trick Mia into killing him? If you ask me, everything either told to Mia or shown by these spirits wasn't true - just aiding manipulation.

At one stage someone says "I think these spirits have all of the information in our minds when we let them in" - and so I don't think Mia's mother was her mother at all. She lied about not committing suicide and tricked her into killing her father. They used all of the information they'd gleaned against her.

Once Mia had died however, I thought that had probably changed things a great deal. Is everything she sees then a real projection of future events? Well, that one brief line from the kid's mother - "he seems to be getting better, he woke up and interacted with me for the first time" - that had me telling Mia "Oh no! Don't kill him! It's all been a ruse!"

I think he really did get better. I think he was always going to get better, and these nasty spirits wanted Mia to kill him before that happened. They tried so hard - to the point of getting Mia to see him as some kind of perverted, old, nasty spirit goading her on.

I kind of say Mia's sacrificial death as freeing her from the torment, and the truth comes to her as death's release. I wasn't 100% sure about the kid, but that's the way I was leaning. Something I had a frustrating time of not quite understanding was what happened to her father? Did he survive? Is that why she saw him during her death-dream walking away? I don't know - that might also mean he died as well. We get that short scene with him being discovered, clinging to life - but no closure on that one.

First of all, I eventually learned during this film that whoever these spirits are, they lie an awful lot and seem to have a great deal of power inasmuch as they can appear as whomever and make Mia see pretty much whatever they want her to (while she's alive.) They tricked Mia into killing her father, and nearly tricked her into killing the kid.

So, was the kid really in hell - being tortured by these hell-spirits like the little girl showed he was to Mia? If they had him like that, then why the urgency regarded to them trying to trick Mia into killing him? If you ask me, everything either told to Mia or shown by these spirits wasn't true - just aiding manipulation.

At one stage someone says "I think these spirits have all of the information in our minds when we let them in" - and so I don't think Mia's mother was her mother at all. She lied about not committing suicide and tricked her into killing her father. They used all of the information they'd gleaned against her.

Once Mia had died however, I thought that had probably changed things a great deal. Is everything she sees then a real projection of future events? Well, that one brief line from the kid's mother - "he seems to be getting better, he woke up and interacted with me for the first time" - that had me telling Mia "Oh no! Don't kill him! It's all been a ruse!"

I think he really did get better. I think he was always going to get better, and these nasty spirits wanted Mia to kill him before that happened. They tried so hard - to the point of getting Mia to see him as some kind of perverted, old, nasty spirit goading her on.

I kind of say Mia's sacrificial death as freeing her from the torment, and the truth comes to her as death's release. I wasn't 100% sure about the kid, but that's the way I was leaning. Something I had a frustrating time of not quite understanding was what happened to her father? Did he survive? Is that why she saw him during her death-dream walking away? I don't know - that might also mean he died as well. We get that short scene with him being discovered, clinging to life - but no closure on that one.

that at a certain point, even the people you love do walk away from you. You can't see how erratic your behavior is, and so at a certain point you cut ties.

For Mia, with her trauma around abandonment, this would be Hell.

For me, another complication is the idea of Mia channeling through the hand. Is she now an evil spirit? Or is being trapped in this purgatory something that eventually warps people? Mia, for all her faults, is not an unempathetic person, not a sadist.

that at a certain point, even the people you love do walk away from you. You can't see how erratic your behavior is, and so at a certain point you cut ties.

For Mia, with her trauma around abandonment, this would be Hell.

For me, another complication is the idea of Mia channeling through the hand. Is she now an evil spirit? Or is being trapped in this purgatory something that eventually warps people? Mia, for all her faults, is not an unempathetic person, not a sadist.

...how a channeled Mia fits in with these spirits being so malicious, but during the montage (if I'm remembering correctly) when everyone is having a ball with the hand, over and over again, there's one or two possessed incarnations that seem kindly, if perhaps sad. But like you say, perhaps that changes. I'd imagine someone possessed briefly by Mia would exhibit intense grief and sadness - with the added edge of being envious of the living, and perhaps anger over being dead. So perhaps not all of the spirits are downright evil - just really intense.

But yeah - that final scene - I guess it all very much emphasises how alone Mia is now. There's not much that doesn't groove very neatly with the drug interpretation. Her father walking away from her, without turning back, is particularly sad. It felt like she'd finally broken through a self-imposed barrier between her and him, tragically too late. I was going to say 'how could anyone be foolhardy enough to try that hand?', but every day some kid is trying crystal meth for the first time. Can't they see the destroyed lives? Of course, that peer pressure can overpower a kid's ability to reason - their thought processes drowned out by that pressure to cross the barrier.

...how a channeled Mia fits in with these spirits being so malicious, but during the montage (if I'm remembering correctly) when everyone is having a ball with the hand, over and over again, there's one or two possessed incarnations that seem kindly, if perhaps sad. But like you say, perhaps that changes. I'd imagine someone possessed briefly by Mia would exhibit intense grief and sadness - with the added edge of being envious of the living, and perhaps anger over being dead. So perhaps not all of the spirits are downright evil - just really intense.

But yeah - that final scene - I guess it all very much emphasises how alone Mia is now. There's not much that doesn't groove very neatly with the drug interpretation. Her father walking away from her, without turning back, is particularly sad. It felt like she'd finally broken through a self-imposed barrier between her and him, tragically too late. I was going to say 'how could anyone be foolhardy enough to try that hand?', but every day some kid is trying crystal meth for the first time. Can't they see the destroyed lives? Of course, that peer pressure can overpower a kid's ability to reason - their thought processes drowned out by that pressure to cross the barrier.

the boy's self-harm seemed to be getting worse, not better. And we weren't given any context for how he might just spontaneously "get better".

It also feels relatively optimistic for what is otherwise a pretty bleak film: the boy survives and is fine, and so does her dad.

Like I said earlier, I think that them all recovering and leaving her behind is the final twist of the knife, so it does work story-wise. I just found myself surprised that two characters who seemed pretty doomed were able to recover.

the boy's self-harm seemed to be getting worse, not better. And we weren't given any context for how he might just spontaneously "get better".

It also feels relatively optimistic for what is otherwise a pretty bleak film: the boy survives and is fine, and so does her dad.

Like I said earlier, I think that them all recovering and leaving her behind is the final twist of the knife, so it does work story-wise. I just found myself surprised that two characters who seemed pretty doomed were able to recover.

her sacrifice would release him. It had worsened because he was deeper in it than they had initially realized and, more to the point, the ghosts were smarter and more malevolent than initially given credit for, but that the one and only bright spot in the film was that at least her miserable death would have a modicum of upside for people who would already be irrevocably traumatized.

her sacrifice would release him. It had worsened because he was deeper in it than they had initially realized and, more to the point, the ghosts were smarter and more malevolent than initially given credit for, but that the one and only bright spot in the film was that at least her miserable death would have a modicum of upside for people who would already be irrevocably traumatized.

the reliability of the ghosts--specifically the ghost of the mother--and the reliability of what Mia herself sees and experiences

the reliability of the ghosts--specifically the ghost of the mother--and the reliability of what Mia herself sees and experiences