Citizen Rules...Cinemaesque Chat-n-Review

→ in
Tools    





Some sort of comparative review would certainly be interesting but from what you said about the original I can't see any reason why you'd feel too much differently about the tv version really.
I guess it depends if the TV version presents the 11 jurors in a more well rounded, believable light. I have hope I will like it, and I hope they take the script and polish it. An any rate I'm going into it, expecting to like it, but I guess I'll have to watch it to see



I guess it depends if the TV version presents the 11 jurors in a more well rounded, believable light. I have hope I will like it, and I hope they take the script and polish it. An any rate I'm going into it, expecting to like it, but I guess I'll have to watch it to see
I very much doubt they tamper with the script but you never know ... I've seen bigger travesties take place



Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
All they do is bring it up to date. It's fine but nowhere near as perfect as the original.
__________________
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page




The Band Wagon (Vincente Minnelli, 1953)

Director: Vincente Minnelli
Cast: Fred Astaire, Cyd Charisse, Oscar Levant
Genre: Musical, Comedy, Romance


When I first got into watching 'old' movies, it was the early musicals that I watched. Its been awhile since I've seen a musical and even longer since I seen The Band Wagon. So It was nice to revisit this.

I know classic musicals aren't popular around here and that's a loss, because musicals are an art form onto themselves. They can't be compared to serious dramas, as that's not the avenue they peruse. They seek to wow and entertain, through dance and song.

As soon as the title credits rolled in The Band Wagon and I seen that top hat, cane and white gloves, I knew what that meant! I got a big kick out of it when those accouterments were being auctioned as belonging to a 'once famous' but forgotten hoofer, played by Fred Astaire. Oh, the irony!....I loved the fictitious film reference of Swinging Down to Panama, which is a nod to the first film Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers ever made together, Flying Down to Rio. The film that made him a star. Fred is the greatest dancer to ever grace the movie screen. His early 1930s and 1940s films are the stuff of legends.




I will say the story line of the movie wasn't that engaging. I didn't sense any chemistry with Fred and Cyd Charisse. I didn't buy into their romance. She's lovely to look at and one of the great female dancers, but Cyd Charisse really didn't have a strong screen presences in this film. She was much better in the musical, Silk Stockings (1957).

Musicals are about the 'numbers'. And I loved the night dance in the park. Louisiana Hayride was a splashy fun number belted out by stage great Nanette Fabray...And the Triplet number was one of funniest routines ever put to music.



But the creme de la creme, was the sublime Girl Hunt number. That was sheer genius! The dance was done in a modern Bob Fosse style and very different than the traditional soft shoe and ballroom dancing that was done in the rest of the film. Director Vincent Minnelli's auteur stamp is all over the set design and costumes of this musical number. The Girl Hunt number makes this movie! But so do many of the other fine music numbers.




.
Attachments
Click image for larger version

Name:	the-band-wagon-5-600x338.jpg
Views:	1046
Size:	135.1 KB
ID:	26762   Click image for larger version

Name:	gfrgv.jpg
Views:	1089
Size:	172.2 KB
ID:	26763   Click image for larger version

Name:	GIRL HUNT 4.jpg
Views:	1045
Size:	38.2 KB
ID:	26764  




The Wind (1928)
Director: Victor Sjöström
Cast: Lillian Gish, Lars Hanson, Montagu Love
Genre: Drama


The Wind is one of the great silent films, and it holds the distinction of being the last silent film that the legendary Lillian Gish ever made. This was Lillian's pet project and was based on the novel, The Wind by Dorothy Scarborough.

The Wind, tells the tail of a young fragile woman, Letty (Lillian Gish) who finds herself alone in the east with no home and no one to care for her. She has no other choice but to travel across country to her cousin's
isolated ranch in the wind sweep plains of Texas. As she gets closer to the ranch, the wind blows furiously, and never stops though out the movie.



The wind effect was achieved by shooting near the heat drenched Mohave desert and using the propellers of eight airplanes to hurl wind, smoke and sand at the actors. The effect is amazing! And it's the wind that is the real protagonist of the film.



I really loved this movie and Lillian Gish is very enduring it, she has that special quality. I literally just watched her and she made the movie. Her and the ever blowing wind.

I loved the music score and I've seen a number of silents and often they have the 'bouncy organ' for a score. I loved the way Lillian could get emotions across the vast span of time. This film still works!


Attachments
Click image for larger version

Name:	Gish.jpg
Views:	1199
Size:	119.3 KB
ID:	26770   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wind (The) - Victor Sjöström - 1928.jpg
Views:	1237
Size:	98.6 KB
ID:	26772  




Flipper(1963)
Director: James B. Clark
Cast: Luke Halpin, Connie Scott, Chuck Connors, Mitzi
Genre: Adventure, Family, Drama



About: A fisherman (Chuck Connors) lives with his wife and son in a small house on the Florida Keys. Thanks to a hurricane and a fish die off known as the red tide...Fishing is meager and paying the bills tough. One day Sandy (Luke Halpin) finds a dolphin with a spear in it's side and rescues it.

Review: I was surprised to find out this was not a Disney film, it's MGM movie inspired by the Lassie TV series. The movie spawned a sequel which in turn migrated to TV as Flipper (1964-1967). Rebooted in 1996 as Flipper with Paul Hogan and
Elijah Wood.

Starting with a roar! The first part of the film has the sleepy fishing village being beaten by gail force winds from an approaching hurricane. Dad and son are out on the water trying disparently to reach the safety of land. This was pretty exciting stuff.

Latter on it switches to drama with dad trying to decide if he should give up his sea days and move to the mainland. The Florida keys never looked my inviting and why would anyone want to leave them?



Latter still we have the dolphin rescue and bonding which children should find endearing as it's nicely done. I got a little bored with the third act but over all it was a nice film to watch. Oh by the way, I gave the dolphin an acting credit, her name was Mitzi.





12 Angry Men (Sidney Lumet, 1957)
*pauses*

all your criticisms are valid.
Hold up.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
I seen this movie years ago and at the time really liked it. But when I watched it again with a critical eye, I found it to be heavy on propaganda
That damnable REASON propaganda.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
and pushing a pacifist ideology
Whut? When? Where? How did you get that? That we should reserve punishment in light of questionable evidence is pacifistic?

Did you not think that that was what the movie was about?

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
The movie comes on like a sledge hammer with the 11 jurors who want to convict looking like utter fools, as they foam at the mouth.
Most of them seem are fairly reasonable people with the odd 2 or 3 characters who hedge at disagreement like in REAL LIFE.

The second to last person to be swayed defended his position on a purely rational basis. He gave reasons, his reasons were disputed, and he was convinced he had err'ed.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
Had the reasoning had solid logic behind them, this would have been a better film, but the reasons for a not guilty verdict have more holes than swiss cheese.
"THIS MOVIE IS GUILTY! GUILTY I TELL YOU, BURN THE MOVIE!"

"Whoa, hold on, we have to the hear reasons first."

"REASONS!? EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID HAS BEEN TWISTED!"

"Is my analogy brutal enough to make my point?"

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
I found the acting way over the top...especially Lee J. Cobb who tore up the scenery. He was so audibly loud that he drowned out the other actors.
And he was 1 guy in a spectrum of 12. These kinds of people exist in reality.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
And they were yelling that with in minutes of getting into the jury room too, which is hard to believe.
Hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
The 'antagonist jurors' didn't hold fast to their guilty verdicts, out of a belief in facts...and they didn't act or speak out of their convictions in those facts...(that would have been interesting).
That HAPPENED, would you think it more realistic if everyone was a lunatic or no one was a lunatic?

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
Their function in the film was to yell and bully the other jurors to create tension, and that's lazy writing.
HANG UP, what's lazy writing? That we didn't take 2 hours to flesh out their car business on the side? That their personalities aren't applicable to the scenario more than they are? That's not lazy writing, that's pragmatism. If you're going to criticize this point, you better offer compelling alternatives.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
The film lays it on like a sledge hammer and lacks any subtly, which makes it hard for me to 'be in' the movie.
Yes, "It's our job to convince you you're wrong" is a particularly salient point to make.

GOOD THING THOSE KINDS OF PEOPLE DON'T EXIST IN REALITY ANYWHERE.

Originally Posted by Captain Steel
Despite the heavy-handed morality lesson,
It's not a morality lesson, it's a motion in favor of due process which is FREQUENTLY ignored in our society even today.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
did anyone bring up the idea that she could have been wearing reading glasses,
Okay, yes, reading glasses would dismiss that argument if reading glasses were worn long enough to leave those marks and not just during... reading.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
Actually maybe 12 Angry Men is brilliant in a reverse way. It aims to show that the court system is stacked against the poor, who can't get a fair trial. But instead the film shows the court system is flawed in another way: any lame brain can make far fetched claims that evidence is not accurate with hyperbola and in that way derail the justices system.
You're making far-fetched claims with hyperbola in a way that DERAILS THIS MOVIE.

Is completely outside of your realm of consideration that 12 Angry Men can speak of the flaws inherent in a semi-democratic justice system in more ways than one?

Apathy?
Ignorance?
Competition?
Discrimination?
Confirmation Bias?
Authority Bias (attorney)?
Conservative Belief Revision? It goes on...

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
I really dislike 12 Angry Men,
Well that's fine, but you've made a terrible case against it.

Originally Posted by Citizen Rules
it smacked of a PC, agenda movie.

WHUUUUUUUUUUU???

Yeah I have to disagree with Citizen about this one. The film, to me, was always just about appropriate skepticism and analyzing situations properly. I don't know how anyone can argue that the jury aside from Fonda, in the beginning, was too quick to judge the guilt of the kid. Not sure why it's being considered PC to simply question the validity of the quick, thoughtless decision, but okay.
Exactly.
__________________
Movie Reviews | Anime Reviews
Top 100 Action Movie Countdown (2015): List | Thread
"Well, at least your intentions behind the UTTERLY DEVASTATING FAULTS IN YOUR LOGIC are good." - Captain Steel



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.

The Band Wagon (Vincente Minnelli, 1953)

Director: Vincente Minnelli
Cast: Fred Astaire, Cyd Charisse, Oscar Levant
Genre: Musical, Comedy, Romance


When I first got into watching 'old' movies, it was the early musicals that I watched. It's been awhile since I seen a musical and even longer since I seen The Band Wagon. So It was nice to revisit this.

I know classic musicals aren't popular around here and that's a loss, because musicals are an art form onto themselves. They can't be compared to serious dramas, as that's not the avenue they peruse. They seek to wow and entertain, through dance and song.

As soon as the title credits rolled in The Band Wagon and I seen that top hat, cane and white gloves, I knew what that meant! I got a big kick out of it when those accouterments were being auctioned as belonging to a once famous, but now forgotten hoofer, played by Fred Astaire. I loved the fictions film reference of Swinging Down to Panama. Flying Down to Rio was the first film Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers made, that film made him a star. Fred's the greatest dancer to ever grace the movie screen. His early 1930s and 1940s films are the stuff of legends.




I will say the story line of the movie wasn't that engaging. I didn't sense any chemistry with Fred and Cyd Charisse. I didn't buy into their romance. She's lovely to look at and one of the great female dancers, but Cyd Charisse really didn't have a strong screen presences in this. She was much better in Silk Stockings (1957).

Musicals are about the 'numbers'. And I loved the night dance in the park, Louisiana Hayride was a splashy fun number, belted out by stage great Nanette Fabray...and the Triplet number was funny.



But the creme de la creme, was the sublime Girl Hunt number. That was sheer genius! The dance was done in a modern Bob Fosse style and very different than the traditional soft shoe and ballroom dancing that was done in the rest of the film. Director Vincent Minnelli's auteurs stamp is all over the set design and costumes of this musical number. The Girl Hunt number makes this movie!




.

I agree with most of your review of The Band Wagon, but I prefer Gene Kelly over Fred Astaire.
__________________
.
If I answer a game thread correctly, just skip my turn and continue with the game.
OPEN FLOOR.



I agree with most of your review of The Band Wagon, but I prefer Gene Kelly over Fred Astaire.
I know you do...I like to think of Fred and Gene as apples and oranges, both great, but very different in their dance style. It's funny when I think of great male dancers from the movies the first two names are Fred and Gene



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.
I know you do...I like to think of Fred and Gene as apples and oranges, both great, but very different in their dance style. It's funny when I think of great male dancers from the movies the first two names are Fred and Gene

And Donald O'Connor




The Band Wagon (Vincente Minnelli, 1953)

/rating]


.
LOVED reading your review of The Band Wagon, Citizen...it is my favorite MGM musical, I like it more than SIngin in the Rain. And I never thought about it until you wrote it, but it's absolutely true.. .the chemistry between Astaire and Charisse is non-existent until the moment they step off that carriage in Central Park and perform one of th emost beautiful pas de deuz ever filmed to the tune of "Dancing in the Dark"....I believe in my choreography thread, the number was somewhere in the top five...it's absolutely magical and I never tire of watching it...that number is worth sitting through the rest of the movie for, but I also love "Triplets", "I Guess I'll Have to Cange my Plans" "That's Entertainment", "A Shine ON Your Shoes"and the final ballet...Michael Kidd's choreography is spectacular, as is Minnelli's direction.




I Vitelloni (Federico Fellini, 1953)

Director: Federico Fellini
Writers: Federico Fellini, Ennio Flaiano
Cast: Alberto Sordi, Franco Fabrizi, Franco Interlenghi
Genre: Drama, Comedy


About: A 'slice of life' character study of five young men from a small Italian town who learn about life, love, responsibility and growing up.

Review: I liked this film. I knew I would after watching it for only a minute or two. Sometimes you just get a good feeling about a movie. It's one of those cozy little films that gives us an intimate look at the going-ons of a small Italian town. Like peeping toms, we peer into the lives of five bored young men who are stuck in dead end lives, in a going nowhere town. They talk of leaving, they talk of big dreams, they talk, but learn that talk is cheap.

Some will say this isn't one of Fellini's best films as it isn't highly memorable. But then this isn't the kind of dramatically tragic story that leaves a lasting impression, such as La Strada does. I Vitelloni isn't intended to be that kind of film, it's more of a realism film in the way it shows us everyday people and the lives they lead. I Vitelloni is grounded in the kind of experiences that many people can relate too, regardless of where you are from.

We all know someone who's like these young men in the movie. From the womanizing playboy who can't be faithful and can't hold a job. To the dreamer who dreams of success as a writer but is fearful of reality. Each of the five men seem very real, with real issues.


Regardless of the subject matter Fellini manages to show a zest for life in his films...they feel very Italian, well of course they do...they are Italian. Fellini films have gusto!





Dial M for Murder (Hitchcock 1954)

Director: Alfred Hitchcock
Writers: Frederick Knott, Frederick Knott (stage play)
Cast: Ray Milland, Grace Kelly, Robert Cummings
Genre: Crime Drama Romance


About: Ray Milland wants to murder his wife Grace Kelly, so he blackmails another man into doing the deed for him. Problem is the perfect crime has a few flaws and things start to unravel.

Review: This is probably my least favorite Hitch film and I've seen a lot of them. This is based on a play and feels very 'stagey', which to me is usually a plus. I like films that hunker down in one spot and dive into great story plots with interesting characters played by skillful actors. But none of that happened here...the dialogue is unengaging and the acting is flat (except Ray Milland who was good).

The plot premise is intriguing, with the idea of seeing a murder planned from the point of view of the murderer, but it's poorly executed (pardon the pun). In Rope (1948) Hitchcock did the same planning of a murder, from the murders point of view, and did it much better.

When the film started out with Ray Milland telling his college mate the he wanted a murder committed, the long scene was done so lackadaisical and contrived that I didn't buy into. From there on I couldn't suspend disbelief and so the movie almost took on a comic quality in my mind.

Sorry to say this but Grace Kelly can't act in this. Oh sure she looks like a million bucks, but she delivers her lines like a robotic beauty. And the comic actor Robert Cummings is unbelievable as her romantic interest. I mean come on do you really think she would fall for him? Ray Milland was a stand out in this, he was personable and interesting and gave the film some needed weight.

+



You can't make a rainbow without a little rain.

Dial M for Murder (Hitchcock 1954)
Director: Alfred Hitchcock
Writers: Frederick Knott, Frederick Knott (stage play)
Cast: Ray Milland, Grace Kelly, Robert Cummings
Genre: Crime Drama Romance


About: Ray Milland wants to murder his wife Grace Kelly, so he black mails another man into doing the deed for him. Problem is the perfect crime has a few flaws and things start to unravel.

Review: This is probably my least favorite Hitch film and I've seen a lot of them. This is based on a play and feels very 'stagey', which to me is usually a plus. I like films that hunker down in one spot and dive into great story plots with interesting characters played by skillful actors. But none of that happened here, the dialogue is unengaging and the acting is flat (except Ray Milland was good).

The plot premise is intriguing, with the idea of seeing a murder planned out from the POV of the murderer, but it's poorly executed (pardon the pun). In Rope (1948) Hitchcock did the same planning of a murder, from the murders point of view, and did it much better.

When the film started out with Ray Milland telling his college mate the he wanted a murder committed, the long scene was done so lackadaisical and contrived that I didn't buy into. From there own I couldn't suspend disbelief and so the movie almost took on comic quality.

Sorry to say this but Grace Kelly can't act in this. Oh sure she looks like a million bucks, but she delivers her lines like a robotic beauty. And the comic actor Robert Cummings is unbelievable as her romantic interest. Only Ray Milland was a stand out in this, he was personable and interesting.


Dial M for Murder is one of my favorite Hitchcock movies. I think it may have even been the first Hitchcock movie that I ever saw.

It's possible that you didn't like Grace Kelly in this movie because Hitchcock told her to act like she was in a trance in the final scenes, so that may have made it feel like her acting was a bit "off".

Did you know that this movie was filmed in 3-D? I recently found out that the 3-D version is going to be playing in New York City soon. I probably won't be able to go, but I'm going to try to see it in 3-D if possible.




Calendar Girls (2003)
Director: Nigel Cole
Cast: Helen Mirren, Julie Walters, Penelope Wilton
Genre: Bio-Comedy, Drama

About: A group of older British women who are bored of spending their time in their town's chapter of the Women's Institute...decide to pose nude for a calendar to raise money for a hospital charity. Which they do, then they the become a media frenzy.

Review
: Calendar Girls is a nice, quaint story about a bunch of middle age women who want to raise money for charity by posing nude for a calendar. Sound ridiculous? Well it actually happened!

I wish I could say the movie was interesting, heart warming, quirky and all around peachy. But it wasn't. It was formulated. It had a weak script that showed us a lot of stuff but never made the story come alive. I never cared about the women in the movie and this is the kind of movie I usually love.

Instead the director, who's not known for much of anything, failed to deliver the goods...instead he padded his movie with pretty shots of the British county side and Hollywood. But this isn't an art house film and no amount of wide angle greenery will compensate for a lack luster story.

There's nothing objectionable here, unless you object to boredom.



Attachments
Click image for larger version

Name:	(JamieR-BX)__CalendarGirls(1).jpg
Views:	1197
Size:	88.5 KB
ID:	26890