Do you think any movies are educational?

Yes, movies are very educational in the fact that they show that people still have the same basic emotions as they've ever had, especially if they seem like real people and not just cartoon or video game characters. Of course, that is another thing going for movies because the people themselves and their situations don't have to be remotely realistic for you to relate to them, at least if the film is offbeat and done well.

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This is true, but it makes for a pretty broad definition of the word "educational." Technically, by this standard, virtually every experience is educational. And if a word applies to almost everything, it's not generally of much use.

So, I agree in a technical sense, but I think the word "educational" usually implies something a bit more concrete than the education we receive by merely being exposed to something.

some movie are educational,mostly movies are entertaing

Excellent point, regnif!! I'm with you 100% here! Way to go!

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Since the purpose of these posts is to discuss our opinions, I stand by mine. Education is a broad term - Wikipedia Definition says "Education in its broadest sense is any act or experience that has a formative effect on the mind, character, or physical ability of an individual". I agree with that, which is why I say that if a movie leads me to think and learn more on a subject, it has educational value. We could debate all day on which subjects are valid and which ones are not.

I think it's more like asking if dirt is wet. Some may be. A whole lot isn't.

Aye, we could debate that, and I'm perfectly happy to do so. My stance in this hypothetical debate would be that, when a word is defined too broadly, it loses its meaning and value, particularly in regards to discussions like these. The definition of "educational" being suggested, as far as I can see, could potentially encompass every film ever made. What would be the purpose of the question, then, if nothing is excluded from the answer?

You'll notice that Wikipedia's definition acknowledges that it is the "broadest" definition. In other words, there are narrower ones available, and I think a narrower definition is the only way a genuine discussion can be had. Otherwise, the question is rendered moot; the answer to the question in the thread title becomes "yes, all of them are," and then the discussion is over. I can't imagine this is what you were hoping for when you started this thread, so something a little more focused would seem to be in order.

You never read about this in many, many books and magazine articles about that period?

My guess would be, no.

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"I was walking down the street with my friend and he said, "I hear music", as if there is any other way you can take it in. You're not special, that's how I receive it too. I tried to taste it but it did not work." - Mitch Hedberg

The most elite military unit in the world???? Then what was it doing at a small, back-water air base at Roswell? And I mean small! And remote. Not exactly like guarding the frontiers of freedom against the Red Menace.

I can tell you're impressed because Major Marcel was an intelligence officer. Obviously you know little about how assignments are handed out in the military. Being an intelligence officer for some backwater unit doesn't mean he's James Bond in uniform. He likely could just as easlily been designated officer in charge of laundry.

In 1955-1961, I lived something like an hour's drive from Roswell and never, ever heard a peep about the Roswell "incident" until a good while after I moved away. Now the people I knew out there talked about the Marfa lights that have been mystifying folks more than 100 years, and they read about the UFOs over Lubbock in the Panhandle. But Roswell didn't make much of an impression.

However, I'm all for letting folks believe what they want to believe.

Seems to me the most frequent message is simply "there is no message."

Quite right. I remember having officers on the ship that were all sorts of book smart, but when it came to common sense, all we'd get was the "deer in the headlights" look. Of course, what most people don't know is that, having a title like Intelligence Officer, really means nothing. It's the people that work for that person that do the real work.

OK, so the "Latrine Officer" [SEE AVATAR ABOVE] doesn't know Jack about *****, so he has his hard-working subordinates do the dirty work for him, unless his name is Will Stockdale. Gotcha.

You hit the nail on the head, Mark! Well, I guess I should have been a little more specific. Not ALL officers are dumb, just the ones who try to over analyze something as simple as cleaning a compartment (room).

Maybe, but if I had chosen a widely accepted subject, your responses would probably have been different, if at all. That's ok...you are entitled to choose for yourself those movies that you found educational and I will choose mine. I will just leave it with the point that it is up to the individual to decide if something was educational...to them, how's that?

It seems to me that some pretty big assumptions have been made...so I will give you my justification for what I said:

The 509th does rank as one of the most famous wings in the Air Force. During WWII, the Army Air Forces formed the group with only one mission in mind: to drop the first atomic bomb in history. Gen. Paul Tibbets headed the group and flew the B-29, The Enola Gay, in August 1945, completing the mission that many feel brought a quick end to World War II. In October the group returned to Roswell Army Air Field.

Many historians regard the 509th Bomb Group as the foundation on which the Strategic Air Command was built. So yes, the 509th was probably the most elite (and secret) military unit in existence at that time. As for being in a small, back-water base, Roswell was specifically chosen to be the home of the 509th because it was remote, thus able to maintain the extremely high level of secrecy required…hardly a small back-water air base.

Am I impressed? Well I don't think that was my original point, but the pilots, flight crews and officers, including Major Jesse Marcel Sr., were among the most elite and best trained in the military. Major Marcel was not just “an” intelligence officer; he was the base intelligence officer for the 509th. He was highly trained and exceptionally skilled. To state that he “likely could just have easily been in charge of laundry” is totally inaccurate. His knowledge and skills were such that he was chosen to work on other highly secret projects including the famous Bikini atoll atomic tests, among others.

I think there's a lot of assumptions on both sides, and in your same generous spirit, I'll give you my justifications. The 509 might have been one of the most famous wings, as you say, but famous isn't the same as elite. Its fame as you point was for dropping the only 2 atomic bombs dropped in warfare. It didn't build the bomb, just dropped it--A very good feat in itself, but not one likely to be known to an alien spying in the Roswell area. Except for loading and dropping the bombs, the 509 crews in 1947 had no connection with making or testing atomic bombs. On the first raid, a Navy commander went with Tibbets' crew to arm the bomb, because none of the 509 knew how.

Moreover, WWII officially ended Sept. 2, 1945, and the US military began winding down the wartime buildup almost immediately. The first to be rotated home and discharged were those who had been in the military the longest and had served overseas; in other words, the most veteran enlisted men, NCOs, and officers--particularly officers: there just wasn't room for that many in peacetime military. Even Jimmy Stewart took a discharge and went home. With so many people being discharged between the end of the war and the Roswell incident on July 7, 1947, I gotta wonder how many real veterans were still with the 509 by then. Were those who were on Tinian when the bomb was loaded and in the air over Japan when it was dropped still with the unit nearly 2 years later? Certainly Tibbets wasn't still in command nor at Roswell. Because of the turnover, I would argue that by the summer of '47 the 509 was not elite nor further advanced in their training than any other bomber wing.

One indication of this is that the 509 participated in the first SAC bombing competition in 1948--and lost to another Air Force unit. (One of their planes did take the Best Crew award, however.) Seems they were good, but not what I'd call elite.

As for the 509 being a "secret" unit in 1947, Roswell was certainly not a secret base, having been built in 1942 to train bomber crews. The only "bombs" dropped in the Roswell area, however, were sacks of flour. To drop real bombs and fire real bullets, the crews had to fly across Texas to practice ranges on islands off the South Texas coast. It's flat as a pancake around Roswell, and the airbase and all those planes in the air would be easily seen. Maybe that's why the secret training of the 509 prior to dropping the bomb was at Wendover Army Air Field in Utah rather than Roswell.

I still don't understand why the Air Force would place its most "elite" bomber unit in a far-off place like Roswell. SAC's purpose was to get the first strike on the enemy if the baloon went up, right? And even by 1947, the military figured if we fought another war, it would be against the Soviet Union. In '47, the main Air Force bomber was still the B-29 Superfortress, with a top speed of 365 mph. Roswell is 794 miles from Los Angeles, which means even an elite bombing wing would take 2 hours or more just to reach the Pacific Ocean on an hours-long mission to bomb Siberia. Does that sound like first-strike capability to you? Flying to the Atlantic would take even longer, but the 509 at Roswell would be in a hell of a good spot for an attack on Mexico.

As for secrets, what secret things was the 509 supposedly doing at Roswell that all the other SAC units weren't doing at other air bases all over the country and in foreign lands? SAC was pretty well advertised from the get-go, with a lot of publicity about its organization and mission. Remember what they said in Dr. Strangelove--what good does it do to have a deterrent weapon if no one knows about it?

Another thing I don't understand--if the 509 was an elite unit at some secret base in 1947, why is it that just 11 years later it was moved to very urbanized New Hampshire and almost disbanded? Did they really go down that badly in just 11 years?

Of course, if one wants to believe aliens crashed on a mission to Roswell, it helps to have an elite bomber wing at a secret base near there to attract them. Don't quite know how the aliens would know this was the unit whose predecessors dropped atom boms on Japan since no such bombs ever were dropped in New Mexico.

But if I were an alien wanting to scope out earth's latest technology, I sure wouldn't waste my time scouting big, lumbering B-29s in the New Mexican desert. No, I'd go buzz Muroc Army Air Field--what is now Edwards AFB--where in 1947 Chuck Yeager was breaking the sound barrier. Now that was a really elite unit that kept secrets longer than the flyboys at Roswell. That and the folks who were building and testing the intercontinental missiles that later replaced the Air Force base at Roswell. On the other hand, the Roswell rocket unit was infamous for blowing up missiles in their silos. Guess there just never was a truly elite Air Force group at Roswell.

As for the hot-shot intelligence officer that goes along with the story, what kind of training would give even the most intelligent intelligence officer a leg up in identifying alien space ships in 1947? Intelligence officers during WWII and afterward mostly looked at films and photos of camouflaged enemy targets and assessed photos of damage from bomb strikes. They weren't metalurgists and didn't design aircraft. They didn't go chasing Tokyo Rose or aliens or run to crash sites.

But then it sounds better if an "intelligence officer" says he saw wreckage of an alien spaceship than if the officer in charge of the motor pool makes the same claim.

None of it really matters--people who want to believe in Roswell and aliens will do so and nothing anyone says will make them question those beliefs. Belief in aliens and conspiracies is the new religion, embraced as devoutly by followers as any other.

Sorry, Patti, I gotta share just one last thing with you. Your quote above reminded me of an old Cajun joke where Beaudreaux tells Hebert he's gonna marry Marie. "Aw, Beaudreaux," says Hebert, "You can't marry Marie. Why, she's slept with every man in Mamou!" "Yeah,' Beaudreaux replies, "but, Hebert, Mamou is such a small town!"

Kinda like being the base intelligence officer at Roswell.

In an effort to steer back toward "education" in films (Lord knows 11 years of the Air Farce [not a typo] was enough for me), I find something of value in most films, even if it's something very small.

I was having this very discussion with a former girlfriend while we were half-heartedly watching Antz, and stating that I found at least something of value even in bad movies. So she pointed at the screen and asked what there could possibly be that was even remotely educational.

Just then, Stallone's character was pretending to draw up for a punch on one ant, only to punch another to the side.

"Aha!" I said, "Tactics and combat-based sleight-of-hand!" She wasn't buying, of course, but it was a funny moment for me.

More realistically, however, I find that watching movies either A) introduces me to the concept of any given situation, thereby forcing me to mentally place myself in the shoes of another (even if said "other" is a fictional character) or B) gives me some insight on mainstream media as a whole, which in turn offers insight on society as a whole in our country.

In the 40's, 50's, 60's, for example, fathers in films were authoritative, figures to be admired by their sons unless a specific disability such as alcoholism was being portrayed. Fathers had the final say-so in those fictional households but were open to discussion, graciously allowed others to present their cases and make their points before rendering judgment. Fathers took their children aside for scoldings and punishment, et cetera.

Today in film men who are not in a specifically heroic role (often aggrandized beyond feasibility), then they're idiots who are outwitted at every turn by women and children, unable to aid in the proper running of a household, ignorant of the smallest daily chores, whiny, and so on. To use fictional fathers from television, Ward Cleaver has become Ray Romano, going from a loving-yet-strong father to a harried, beleaguered dolt.

It reflects in the movies. Spencer Tracy has become Robin Williams, and not in a good way. This says nothing about the actors, but it says a load about the writing one expects in a film which is acceptable in the view of the mainstream audience.

People in my own age group and younger can tell me all about the bloodiest scenes from The Godfather, can tell me lines from when Sonny beats up his brother-in-law on the street or repaint verbally for me the moment when Fredo fails to protect his father at the mercado. But the poignancy of the moment when Don Corleone's face is awash with grief at the news of Michael's participation in gunning down the police chief and the competing Don is lost on them. "Oh, he was sad because his favorite son wasn't there," they'll say in rapid pretense of understanding. No, idiots, he's upset because he hoped to keep Michael separate from this part of the family business, to protect him, keep him innocent.

Movies have a LOT to offer, if one has the wherewithall to pay attention and comprehend. Never Cry Wolf is one of my favorite examples of a movie with a LOT to offer.

Major Marcel was not just “an” intelligence officer; he was the base intelligence officer for the 509th.

Having worked in Intelligence for over a decade in the Air Force, I can tell you that THE Intelligence Officer, while having access to all available information technically, generally has very little to do with gathering, processing, analyzing or disseminating that information. THE Intelligence Officer is in charge of running the place in which those who actually perform those functions do their job and very little else. Now, I won't argue that IF anything of the magnitude of the alleged happenings at Roswell occurred, that intelligence officer would be called in, but he/she (he at the time) would not be in a position of as much authority as you seem to believe, would likely get as much of a bum's rush as everyone of lower rank while the REAL authorities and powers-that-be stepped in and made their hush-hush.