Denzel over Russel...
Reply to Topic
If you want to find things to complain about with the Oscars, there are many far more worthy than this pick...which I found reasonable, and predicted weeks ago. GO DENZEL!!!
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
They weren't going to put Russell Crowe in the same class as Spencer Tracy, Kate Hepburn and Tom Hanks - the only lead actors to win Oscars two years in a row.
I think everybody on the planet - including Crowe himself, sees now exactly how patently ridiculous it was to give him an acting Oscar for frippin' Gladiator (not to mention Best Picture). But they did, and now he had to suffer for it. Too bad, so sad.
And Denzel also benefitted from a strong career but no lead acting Oscar yet. I don't think Training Day is even in his top five performances, but it just became "his year", as the Academy not-so-charmingly tends to do.
But as I was saying in the shoutbox, if you want injustice, look at best director: Ron Howard, Mel Gibson, Robert Redford and Kevin Costner all have won Oscars as Best Director. That's four more than Robert Altman, Martin Scorsese, Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick and Orson Welles combined (none ever won as directors). Welcome to the A.M.P.A.S. slap-in-your-face stupidity! But don't worry: there's plenty more to come in subsequent years.
*SIGH*
I think everybody on the planet - including Crowe himself, sees now exactly how patently ridiculous it was to give him an acting Oscar for frippin' Gladiator (not to mention Best Picture). But they did, and now he had to suffer for it. Too bad, so sad.
And Denzel also benefitted from a strong career but no lead acting Oscar yet. I don't think Training Day is even in his top five performances, but it just became "his year", as the Academy not-so-charmingly tends to do.
But as I was saying in the shoutbox, if you want injustice, look at best director: Ron Howard, Mel Gibson, Robert Redford and Kevin Costner all have won Oscars as Best Director. That's four more than Robert Altman, Martin Scorsese, Alfred Hitchcock, Stanley Kubrick and Orson Welles combined (none ever won as directors). Welcome to the A.M.P.A.S. slap-in-your-face stupidity! But don't worry: there's plenty more to come in subsequent years.
*SIGH*
__________________
"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra
"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra
X
Favorite Movies
Shall we continue the race card discussion Holden?
I'm not sure it was backlash from winning for Gladiator (which was in turn a reward for missing out regarding The Insider) as much as it was the threats that if an African-American didn't win the award, well, the Academy would be racist.
And so, two African-Americans (neither in the year's Best Performance) won. The Academy is a diverse multi-cultural group of...
...FEAR RIDDEN MONEY DRIVEN MINDLESS IDIOTS.
Cough.
The best performance of the year was Russel.
And I'm not saying that because he's Australian. I honestly though it was.
What it comes down to is the way you can play your cards in the game of injustice. Not a huge loss on Crowe's part, who I am convinced will win again at some stage, but all the same, it just truly shows, once again, and not for the last time, how corrupt this card game is, baby....
I'm not sure it was backlash from winning for Gladiator (which was in turn a reward for missing out regarding The Insider) as much as it was the threats that if an African-American didn't win the award, well, the Academy would be racist.
And so, two African-Americans (neither in the year's Best Performance) won. The Academy is a diverse multi-cultural group of...
...FEAR RIDDEN MONEY DRIVEN MINDLESS IDIOTS.
Cough.
The best performance of the year was Russel.
And I'm not saying that because he's Australian. I honestly though it was.
What it comes down to is the way you can play your cards in the game of injustice. Not a huge loss on Crowe's part, who I am convinced will win again at some stage, but all the same, it just truly shows, once again, and not for the last time, how corrupt this card game is, baby....
__________________
www.esotericrabbit.com
www.esotericrabbit.com
I don't think "the Race Card" was really played as much as you seem to believe. And if it was a bit (or even a lot), I see no harm in it. This is The Oscars, not a criminal proceeding or a political race of some kind.
I'm repeating what I said much earlier in The Shoutbox, but his was far and away Halle Barry's best performance of her career. Now that's not saying too much, considering her body of work to this point, but it was a marked improvement, and she made the most of the opportunity.
Plus there are far less "reactionary" factors that go into Oscar voter's heads than Race, things that are probably more paramount in their little pain-pill addled minds. Things like, who's going to give the best speech? Sissy Spacek, a veteran who has won before and will be diginified but very restrained, or Halle Barry, a young gal who will likely have an honest and impressive overwhelming display of emotions that will make all the highlight reels for years to come? THAT kind of consideration, what kind of SHOW will this make, likely gets more consideration than Race.
And I don't know what "threats" you're referring to. If you have a link to an article, that's be great.
Sure, Denzel and Berry winning the same year comes off a little P.C. to me too, but I don't think it's an outrage of any kind. Even if I thought Russell Crowe's performance was the best of the year (and I don't), it's not that big a deal - even simply in terms of Oscar history. So maybe Russell "should" have won for The Insider and/or A Beautiful Mind rather than Gladiator. So what? He got his Oscar, which is more than many deserving thespians can say.
As usual for the Oscars, much ado about nothing. Denzel is a very good actor and seems like a nice guy. So even though Training Day was no big triumph (I didn't think, anyway), nobody in The Academy is going to begrudge him the Award.
I don't either. Personally I wouldn't have voted for either of them, or Sean Penn. I thought Tom Wilkinson's internal work visible on-screen in In the Bedroom was Grade-A stuff. But alas, I didn't get a ballot.
I'm repeating what I said much earlier in The Shoutbox, but his was far and away Halle Barry's best performance of her career. Now that's not saying too much, considering her body of work to this point, but it was a marked improvement, and she made the most of the opportunity.
Plus there are far less "reactionary" factors that go into Oscar voter's heads than Race, things that are probably more paramount in their little pain-pill addled minds. Things like, who's going to give the best speech? Sissy Spacek, a veteran who has won before and will be diginified but very restrained, or Halle Barry, a young gal who will likely have an honest and impressive overwhelming display of emotions that will make all the highlight reels for years to come? THAT kind of consideration, what kind of SHOW will this make, likely gets more consideration than Race.
And I don't know what "threats" you're referring to. If you have a link to an article, that's be great.
Sure, Denzel and Berry winning the same year comes off a little P.C. to me too, but I don't think it's an outrage of any kind. Even if I thought Russell Crowe's performance was the best of the year (and I don't), it's not that big a deal - even simply in terms of Oscar history. So maybe Russell "should" have won for The Insider and/or A Beautiful Mind rather than Gladiator. So what? He got his Oscar, which is more than many deserving thespians can say.
As usual for the Oscars, much ado about nothing. Denzel is a very good actor and seems like a nice guy. So even though Training Day was no big triumph (I didn't think, anyway), nobody in The Academy is going to begrudge him the Award.
I don't either. Personally I wouldn't have voted for either of them, or Sean Penn. I thought Tom Wilkinson's internal work visible on-screen in In the Bedroom was Grade-A stuff. But alas, I didn't get a ballot.
X
Favorite Movies
Then you should join the academy.
Meanwhile, yeah. I don't mean "threats" as in someone ringing up people and going "you're dead meat" or something. And I think you know what I mean. There was a big and unlogical fear that the Academy would be labelled racist. And I think the race card was played. Not so much as the [A Beautiful Mind[/i] removes crucial points card.
But I don't mind.
I think Russell will come and win again, actually, but yeah.
Well done, Denzel. A bit suss, perhaps, but all the same, well done.
What was the best performance of the year?
Male and then female?
Meanwhile, yeah. I don't mean "threats" as in someone ringing up people and going "you're dead meat" or something. And I think you know what I mean. There was a big and unlogical fear that the Academy would be labelled racist. And I think the race card was played. Not so much as the [A Beautiful Mind[/i] removes crucial points card.
But I don't mind.
I think Russell will come and win again, actually, but yeah.
Well done, Denzel. A bit suss, perhaps, but all the same, well done.
What was the best performance of the year?
Male and then female?
As I listed in THIS thread a couple months ago...
I thought the best male lead performances of the year were 1) Guy Pearce in Memento, 2) Tom Wilkinson for In the Bedroom, 3) Jack Nicholson in The Pledge, 4) Gene Hackman in The Royal Tenenbaums and 5) Samuel L. Jackson for The Caveman's Valentine.
The best female lead performances in my book came from 1) Charlotte Rampling Under the Sand, 2) Sissy Spacek for In the Bedroom, 3) Franka Potente in The Princess & the Warrior, 4) Audrey Tautou as Amelie, and 5) Nicole Kidman in The Others.
I thought the best male lead performances of the year were 1) Guy Pearce in Memento, 2) Tom Wilkinson for In the Bedroom, 3) Jack Nicholson in The Pledge, 4) Gene Hackman in The Royal Tenenbaums and 5) Samuel L. Jackson for The Caveman's Valentine.
The best female lead performances in my book came from 1) Charlotte Rampling Under the Sand, 2) Sissy Spacek for In the Bedroom, 3) Franka Potente in The Princess & the Warrior, 4) Audrey Tautou as Amelie, and 5) Nicole Kidman in The Others.
X
Favorite Movies
Guy Pearce too, another Aussie.
But no Crowe or Jackman this year, so sorry. Kerry Armstrong almost made my list. She gets an honorable mention anyway.
BTW, did you get to see Lantana again?
But no Crowe or Jackman this year, so sorry. Kerry Armstrong almost made my list. She gets an honorable mention anyway.
BTW, did you get to see Lantana again?
X
Favorite Movies
I did.
I enjoyed it again, although despite the performances, it's basically a soap opera that carefully and concisley interwines with itself. I though Armstrong, LaPaglia and Rush all did extremley wonderful performances.
But yeah.
Where does Crowe's schizophrenic fit onto your list?
If you don't mind my asking. Which of course you don't.
I enjoyed it again, although despite the performances, it's basically a soap opera that carefully and concisley interwines with itself. I though Armstrong, LaPaglia and Rush all did extremley wonderful performances.
But yeah.
Where does Crowe's schizophrenic fit onto your list?
If you don't mind my asking. Which of course you don't.
Oh, I don't think I would put Russell Crowe's A Beautiful Mind performance in my top ten. I guess the rest would go 6) Billy Bob Thornton as The Man Who Wasn't There, 7) Vincent D'Onofrio for Happy Accidents, 8) William H. Macy in Focus, 9) Ray Winstone in Sexy Beast, and 10) Johnny Depp in Blow.
And rounding out my top ten female performances, 6) Stockard Channing in The Business of Strangers, 7) Kerry Armstrong for Lantana, 8) Tilda Swinton in The Deep End, 9) Molly Parker at The Center of the World and 10) Halle Barry in Monster's Ball
Still never got to see L.I.E., which I wanted to but missed. But I think that was really it for last year's crop that really peaked my curiosity. Linklater's Tape sounded like it was worth a look, but I'm in no burning rush.
And rounding out my top ten female performances, 6) Stockard Channing in The Business of Strangers, 7) Kerry Armstrong for Lantana, 8) Tilda Swinton in The Deep End, 9) Molly Parker at The Center of the World and 10) Halle Barry in Monster's Ball
Still never got to see L.I.E., which I wanted to but missed. But I think that was really it for last year's crop that really peaked my curiosity. Linklater's Tape sounded like it was worth a look, but I'm in no burning rush.
Last edited by Holden Pike; 03-25-02 at 04:46 AM.
X
Favorite Movies
Man, do you know schizophrenics, right? And what they do and how they act and their mannerisms? This guy is right up there, recreating them near perfectly. We'll have to agree to disagree because I personally put Crowe's performance in my top three.
Mind you. I'm yet to even see all of the films from last year.
I know Guy Pearce probably wouldn't be so near the top though...
Mind you. I'm yet to even see all of the films from last year.
I know Guy Pearce probably wouldn't be so near the top though...
Well, I don't know any schizophrenics personally, no.
*shut-up, you fool*
Sorry, that was a voice I sometimes hear. He made me type that.
I thought Crowe's performance was appropriately mannered and all, but I wouldn't say it's the best I've ever seen. Part of that was also how Ron Howard and the film presented his breaks in the narrative. I absolutely LOVE the way it was presented in Neil Jordan's The Butcher Boy (1997), which would probably be my favorite - if you haven't seen it, track it down. The breaks Pacino's character has in the second half of Scarecrow (1973) rate very highly on my list. Just this year, Sam Jackson in Caveman's Valentine is really spectacular to me, much more so than Crowe as Nash.
But hey, different strokes and all, man.
*shut-up, you fool*
Sorry, that was a voice I sometimes hear. He made me type that.
I thought Crowe's performance was appropriately mannered and all, but I wouldn't say it's the best I've ever seen. Part of that was also how Ron Howard and the film presented his breaks in the narrative. I absolutely LOVE the way it was presented in Neil Jordan's The Butcher Boy (1997), which would probably be my favorite - if you haven't seen it, track it down. The breaks Pacino's character has in the second half of Scarecrow (1973) rate very highly on my list. Just this year, Sam Jackson in Caveman's Valentine is really spectacular to me, much more so than Crowe as Nash.
But hey, different strokes and all, man.
X
Favorite Movies
I like Russell Crowe. I thought he was something else in The Insider, LA Confidential and even gave Gladiator a level of dignity that I don't think it deserved but his performance in A Beautiful Mind was all ticks and twitches. Anybody can play that. I hate mental illness nominees. Unless it is really, really well done, like Daniel Day-Lewis in My Left Foot.
And Denzel only won because of his impeccable record over the years. Training Day isn't a movie that deserved to be recognised by the Academy when Amelie, Mulholland Drive and In the Bedroom are snubbed.
Will Smith was the best performance of the year in my eyes. Where did he go to when the Best Actor was announced. All we saw was a picture of him. I hope nothing happened to him. He just disappeared. Anyone know the reason?
And Denzel only won because of his impeccable record over the years. Training Day isn't a movie that deserved to be recognised by the Academy when Amelie, Mulholland Drive and In the Bedroom are snubbed.
Will Smith was the best performance of the year in my eyes. Where did he go to when the Best Actor was announced. All we saw was a picture of him. I hope nothing happened to him. He just disappeared. Anyone know the reason?
__________________
I couldn't believe that she knew my name. Some of my best friends didn't know my name.
I couldn't believe that she knew my name. Some of my best friends didn't know my name.
I just have to brag, I totally called it.
Not only was Whoopie hosting; Sydney getting a lifetime achievement thingie, but I was getting the whole "Black Pride" vibe, pretty early. I saw some interveiws on E!, they were all talking about the nominations of Halle & Denzel. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the glass ceiling has broken, in that aspect, but Russell got beat out for the wrong reasons.
Not only was Whoopie hosting; Sydney getting a lifetime achievement thingie, but I was getting the whole "Black Pride" vibe, pretty early. I saw some interveiws on E!, they were all talking about the nominations of Halle & Denzel. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the glass ceiling has broken, in that aspect, but Russell got beat out for the wrong reasons.
Go Denzel !! He is a powerful, more powerful actor in ways Crowe can't top. Acting longer than Crowe and deserving much more. He's got what it takes.
X
Favorite Movies
X
User Lists
nah, Denzel is a nice man, a good actor, but not a GREAT one. His efforts at greatness never really push the envelope, never really make you believe that he is anything other than what he is. Even for Training Day ... I do believe there is a better character and film out there waiting for him that will not ... capitalize on certain things (Training Day - the tough streets, violence, etc - basically, pulling a Samuel L. Jackson; or, the suffering black man, The Hurricane, Malcolm X, John Q). Though perhaps John Q might deserve it, but i haven't seen it yet.
Denzel will need a black character who's greatness overpowers the story (of black strife) or it will forever feel like a pity give. Like Training Day feels.
Halle Berry, however, I do think, from what I've heard (haven't seen the flick) went above and beyond herself and if so, she may very well deserve it. Denzel needs something more like that. Though I dunno, if her performance was just better than her usual and more of depth but not "great" then that's a pity win, too.
I'm going to give you peeps a history lesson. You want to see some great black acting, go watch, as I insisted with Chris, The Color Purple. Most black folks I know have seen this. It's part of our filmic history. It makes me and my best friend cry, every time, years later, and I've seen this more times than I can count. This is a story which goes above and beyond the mere use of a black character in an everyman role. There is a depth and a reality there that outmatches the films made as if they were some desperate attempt to shout and be heard - sometimes, shouting is necessary, but that doesn't make it a great film. And being in one of those doesn't make you a great actor, or deserving of an Oscar. Not as though Oscars are so valuable these days anyway ...
I didn't watch the Oscars. Bad of me, wasn't it? Went out to dinner. I did want to see Whoopi but part of me just didn't care. Someone made a dinner offer and i just took it, no second thoughts. Hmmm, weird. But, i wanted to know how Whoopi was, after all. Did she annoy? Was she funny? Was she beautiful? Was she classy? I wuv her.
Denzel will need a black character who's greatness overpowers the story (of black strife) or it will forever feel like a pity give. Like Training Day feels.
Halle Berry, however, I do think, from what I've heard (haven't seen the flick) went above and beyond herself and if so, she may very well deserve it. Denzel needs something more like that. Though I dunno, if her performance was just better than her usual and more of depth but not "great" then that's a pity win, too.
I'm going to give you peeps a history lesson. You want to see some great black acting, go watch, as I insisted with Chris, The Color Purple. Most black folks I know have seen this. It's part of our filmic history. It makes me and my best friend cry, every time, years later, and I've seen this more times than I can count. This is a story which goes above and beyond the mere use of a black character in an everyman role. There is a depth and a reality there that outmatches the films made as if they were some desperate attempt to shout and be heard - sometimes, shouting is necessary, but that doesn't make it a great film. And being in one of those doesn't make you a great actor, or deserving of an Oscar. Not as though Oscars are so valuable these days anyway ...
I didn't watch the Oscars. Bad of me, wasn't it? Went out to dinner. I did want to see Whoopi but part of me just didn't care. Someone made a dinner offer and i just took it, no second thoughts. Hmmm, weird. But, i wanted to know how Whoopi was, after all. Did she annoy? Was she funny? Was she beautiful? Was she classy? I wuv her.
__________________
life without movies is like cereal without milk. possible, but disgusting. but not nearly as bad as cereal with water. don't lie. I know you've done it.
life without movies is like cereal without milk. possible, but disgusting. but not nearly as bad as cereal with water. don't lie. I know you've done it.
X
User Lists
Ok, the race thing WAS a major issue this year (Hence Halle Berry's speech) but Denzel Washington did not deserve the Oscar for Training Day, it's not even his best performance. If they were going to give it to an "Actor of colour" then surely Will Smith's performance was more deserving? A Beautiful Mind was a good film but don't you just hate films that are obviously made with Oscar in mind. Could they have been any more obvious?
Even if you argue that it was not a race issue Halle Berry's speech certainly turned it into one.
Even if you argue that it was not a race issue Halle Berry's speech certainly turned it into one.
__________________
Lex Luthor: "I'd question your integrity, but you're a journalist."
Lex Luthor: "I'd question your integrity, but you're a journalist."