Dr. or Judge? Who Do YOU Believe?

Unless she is found to be knowingly and maliciously slandering the guy I doubt there will be anything like a suit against her. It is certainly possible though.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

I’m a little shocked by some of the angst driven comments in here. I may pop back in here soon. Need to consider my wording before I post.

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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

I'm surprised by a lot in the thread as well, including that you think she was lying about this in 2012.

I thought about this whole case again and I think I’m just coming to terms that we will really never know for sure. There are only 2 things that could change that for me those are:

1. Something in the therapist’s notes for Ford clearly dismiss her claim as false.
2. Mark Judge admits he lied before and says Kavanaugh indeed did what he did.

No, some kind of date mistake in therapist’s notes will not be enough to dispel doubt just like a date confirmation of Mark Judge’s Safeway whereabouts will also not be enough. It also will not be enough to hear Mark Judge repeat his statement denying Kavanaugh’s involvement because of everything I have learned regarding him since.

1. He wasn't just a possible random spectator in the room. He was his close or even best friend in college. His loyalty lies to Kavanaugh. No matter what, that will still remain. Even under a threat of lying under oath to the FBI. The stakes are just too high because this would not only put Kavanaugh on blast, it would nullify anything Judge previously denied regarding Kavanaugh even regarding the third accuser.

2. Judge saying Kavanaugh indeed did what Ford said would not only make Kavanaugh guilty, but would also make Judge to be an accomplice. It could possibly make him liable for any future criminal charges that might come his way. He definitely does NOT want that.

3. For all the talk about Ford being some kind of a political pawn, a democrat shill, even though there is no evidence for it is really telling. I am not aware she wrote any articles regarding democratic political figures, not aware she wrote for any liberal blogs, not aware she has any political figure friends. She seems like she just lived her life as a college professor. On the other hand, Mark Judge has written articles for conservative publications such as The American Spectator and Liberty Magazine (which have conveniently disappeared since), he has written pro Breitbart opinions and mentioned Andrew Breitbart as someone he looks up to. Basically he not only has a personal, and self-preserving reasons to deem Kavanaugh as innocent, he also has a strong party bias regarding it. Of course, we all might have a party bias, but I just find it ridiculous that Ford was dragged through the mud as having a party bias when there is nothing really showing she does. However, Mark Judge did not get any of the bad press regarding his affiliations and ability to be honest. Although…….tick tock.

And don’t even get me going on memory arguments where Ford is repeatedly questioned on hers yet Judge, a self-admited blakout drunk is completely believed without a doubt.

In any case, I think Kavanaugh’s achilles' heel will likely not be Ford or Judge, but himself. There is some pretty strong evidence he lied under oath multiple times regarding his statements on “boofing”, “Devil’s triangle”, yearbook editors and drinking. I think that is what might ultimately come back to haunt him and not necessarily during his confirmation process either.

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“There's no place to hide, When you're lit from the inside” Roisin Murphy

@cricket
You have consistently made remarks that are tinged with mysoginy, especially when it comes down to any women who come forward with sexual assault claims.

“…..there's definitely plenty of women who make false accusations for a variety of reasons.

….I’m focusing on this sexual assault claim. Although any fool can see the other sexual assault claims are ridiculous.

…..Could she be inspiring women who do not have a legitimate claim? We know for sure there's a lot of women who make these things up.”

I understand from what you’ve said is that you have been a victim of a false rape accusation. I can see where you might be coming from, but that just shows the bias you have regarding this or any other case involving rape.

There is such a thing as prefacing statements with “my wife tells me”, “my friend told me” etc. That’s what’s called anecdotal evidence. While it might be valid it certainly does not warrant to be the whole truth overall. For that, you look at the data, and the data shows that actually only a very small number (something along the lines of ~5.55%) of rape claims are falsely reported. That is a far cry from saying “plenty of women” which is implying a lot higher number. I could have also told you that in my experience I don’t know of ANY women coming forward with admitted false rape accusations (which is true) but than I am just playing your game of claiming anecdotal evidence as an overall fact which I will not do. I try to look at the data.

Another claim you make is that polygraphs prove nothing which is not true. While they are not 100% reliable, the data gives them at best 90% reliability and at worst 70% reliability which i still is still far from saying “completely unreliable”. I am pretty sure you also are familiar that Kavanaugh himself ruled that “..polygraphs can be accepted as gospel by employers in making hiring decisions.” Funny how things change when the shoe is on the other foot.

Well, her story in the therapist's notes is already different than her current story.

This would certainly do it.

Kavanaugh has the advantage in that we don't need any more evidence of any kind to presume his innocence. It's Ford's side that needs evidence.

On the other hand, Ford's friend's loyalty is to Ford, and we know how that worked out.

Agreed, same with Ford's friend.

Ford was chanting and carrying a sign at an anti Trump march in 2017. Also, an accuser having political affiliations and one of HER key witnesses having political affiliations are two very different things. Judge never asked to be part of this.

It doesn't matter if you believe him or not. He had to have a different story to help Ford in any way.

I see no such evidence whatsoever.

@d_chatterley:

@cricket:

You've got that backwards. I said a lot of MEN are scumbags.

Show me where I'm wrong.

I never said that and that's not the case.

My whole point of that would be you cannot blindly believe women who make these accusations. What would your point be?

The shoe on the other foot cliche does not apply to this. What I think and what Kavanaugh thinks are two different things.

Enough with the kiddie posts. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Gonna second that last thing.

This is a heated, serious topic. Facepalms and cheerleading and the like really only serve to add to the divisiveness, and can be expressed via post comment or something else. Please only reply publicly if you're prepared to do so in a way that advances the discussion in some form.

And just to be clear about something; the only person we know for a fact that was drinking at the time of the incident, if said incident actually occurred, is the accuser. We know this because she said so, and her memory is so good that she remembered exactly what she did drink. Does it matter if it was a regular can or a 40? I don't know, but I doubt many 15 year old girls have a high tolerance.

I was raped when I was a kid, but I have no evidence or proof. I have no eyewitnesses to backup my claims. Worst yet I don't know exactly when or where it took place: I have no concrete details to either, but I do know with absolute certainty who did it. My body was hardcoded to experience fight or flight whenever I was around him. I don't know how many times it took place (I know it was more than once), but I know the mechanisms with which he coerced my body and my silence.

So you can see why I take issue with you blantly taking inconsisities as fact of innocence? The core details of her story remain unchanged with zero inconsistency: Kavanaugh sexual assaulted Ford.

If we apply the same logic you're using to discredit Ford against Kavanaugh we are left with one and only one option: do not confirm him.

That it a tragedy and I am very sorry about it. There are many victims without justice.

I in no way think he is innocent for a fact. If he is found to be guilty, I still believe I have been right all along. What I'm saying is that the burden of proof is not on him. As of yet there is no evidence of guilt. Her story has changed between now and 6 years ago, which happens to be 6 years closer to the alleged incident.

If you want to question Kavanaugh's memory due to possible drinking, you must do the same with Ford's memory. That is called fairness.

I suggest you just stop talking about a subject you're not versed to be discussing: You're not up to speed on how trauma affects memory. You're not up to speed on the culture that was a prominent feature of house parties during the time this event took place. You're not up to speed on the optics where a man is allowed to express anger and shame in defending himself but a woman must be poised and collected just to make an accusation. You're just not in a position to talk about this subject. You've been given plenty of reasons why this is a credible accusation.

I'm done with this lunacy.

You have evidence of any of this nonsense?

Of course not.

I joked about having evidence in my last post, and that's because every single word in the post before was the result of a healthy imagination.

I just thought I should touch on this a little more.

Boofing. I looked this up and was shocked to find that it refers to anal sex. The reason I was shocked was because I have used the words boof, boofed, and boofing, many times to mean fart, farted, and farting. That this is even a subject is laughable.

Devil's Triangle. I played this game that he described before in my drinking days but have no recollection of what I or anyone else called it. Devil's Triangle at least makes sense. What I do know is that sometimes, especially when you're younger, you call things by other names or make up names when you don't know. I'd say this is pretty common. I played Tag many times as a kid, but we didn't call it Tag and I never heard of Tag until many years later. I thought the other name was extremely well known but I'm not sure. Does anyone else know the other name for it by chance? Hell, I called every type of pasta spaghetti until I met my wife when I was 25. I did that because that's what my parents did their entire lives.

The yearbook stuff. I don't know, you can believe him or not believe him. I do know that when you're a teenager you say things almost constantly that aren't intended to be taken literally.

Drinking. I think he was very forthcoming, maybe even being over the top, about how much he enjoyed drinking beer.

Are you guys just buying into things without giving it any thought?


Now this weirdo comes forward claiming he lied about his drinking? Really? He never said he's never been intoxicated or belligerent. Some people thought he was belligerent during his testimony. I didn't think so at all given what he's been accused of. Of course it's subjective, and this guy, who also happens to have made contributions to the Democratic Party, admitted that he was also drinking during these times. Was he carrying a breathalyzer with him? If he has indeed been intoxicated and belligerent at some points in his early life, he didn't lie about it, and it certainly doesn't mean he's a sexual assaulter, or more specifically, a sexual assaulter of the accuser.

What are we talking about here?

yup

i keep seeing the same bs 'why if it's true can't she even remember' and 'evidence needed in order to confirm it happened'

first of all it's extremely common for survivors of sexual assault to forget specific details like where they were, who was there, what day it was, what time it was etc. if you've ever had a traumatic event on the same level happen maybe you'd get that.

secondly, it's extremely hard to prove you were assaulted, and damn near impossible to prove you were actually raped. which is why it's so uncommon. even if you have a semen sample or something, how is that proof? that just proves you had contact in a sexual manner, it still doesn't prove rape. the truth is, putting this amount of burden of proof on the victim is a huge reason why so many rapes go unreported or why so many rapists walk free. add on top of that the position of power the assaulter usually has over his victim (bc predators don't go after people 'above' them).

so yeah. ok, you want evidence. well, i want rapists to actually go to jail for ****in once, so the world is free of these predators.

the one thing i agree with, and i'm not sure who said it, is that yeah - we all have biases towards this. big surprise, mine is towards the victim, and it's because men like this often get away with it time and again, while victims are silenced or ignored. if the worst thing that happens to Kavanaugh is that he doesn't get to be SCROTUS, boo frickin hoo. he'll be fine. men like him always are.

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