Machismo and masculinity in films

Try to be as open minded as possible here.
It seems a very tricky subject and not a lot of film fans are discussing about it or even entertaining that thought. This thought came to me over sunday when i was going through the list of greatest movies from afi and other sources. Some of the most popular movies in the past several decades are godfather,taxi driver,goodfellas,french connection etc. These are considered greatest movie ever.
Modern movies that people love are chris nolan movies,tarantino movies,scorsese-dicaprio collaborations,mad max fury road,american psycho,there will be blood etc. To me, these are the movies which will be talked about 50 yrs from now like we are talking about godfather/goodfellas.
Yes there are movies like signing in the rain,west side story,kramer vs kramer,schindlers list,conversations.
But there seems to be this passionate support for the earlier set of movies. Which is why people are more likely to speak about the dark knight 40 yrs from now and not the kings speech. You see where i am getting at.
I can't think of any pattern among these movies except that they appeal to a 15 yr old who wants to feel like a man and enjoy his masculinity and feel better about himself. All these movies are easily followed. Even inception feels like a smart movie but in reality it isn't. Its a well made movie that a 14 yr old can understand.
So what happens to movies like the kings speech ?
what is wrong with the picture ? why is a director like barry levinson who made rain man is not highly regarded but a director who made hardcore dark movies considered a legend.

Please don't tell me that in 40 yrs slumdog millionaire/kings speech/chicago/shakespeare in love will be more remembered than the dark knight/django unchained/mad max fury road.
Another example is the maritan vs the revenant....one is a feel good movie but another is a masculine movie that evokes something macho in the viewers..with its grit

The title feels misleading.

Kings Speech will be talked about 40 years from now. Or at least I hope. Mad max, not sure. Good movie, great CGI, but that's about it. Shakespeare in love is not even talked about now. So in 40 years, it will just be a dot in movie history.

But I don't see where you are getting at, and topic name is as mentioned doesn't add up to the post.

Are you trying to say there are is a general decline in movie quality? Or great movies are all just stuffed with "macho" themes.

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I couldnt find a better fitting title to the concept I am getting at . and yes its the latter. "Great movies are all just stuffed with macho themes"..i would put it more like "movies stuffed with macho themes tend to be carried forward to next generations as great movies and seem to trascened generations with equal passion.

A russian in 10 yrs is more likely to passionately like a movie like the prestige than something like kings speech or chicago or even a movie like les miserables.

I think this is mostly a mix of cherry-picking or confirmation bias. It's pretty easy to arbitrarily select a handful of films to argue either point, particularly when you toss in the sheer speculation of trying to figure out what people will or won't remember a few decades for now.

Even the individual choices could be used to make the opposite case. For example, The Godfather could be seen as some kind of masculine power fantasy, sure, but it's also a dramatic film (not really an action-oriented one), and it's a very thoughtful, character-based film. If you wanted to use it as an example of how people remember vivid or nuanced characters, it could stand-in for those types of films, too.

Not by me...and I've seen them all recently, except The French Connection. But yes, you're right many movie fans consider them to be the greatest films ever made. And I've talked about that before and asked, why?IMO, it's not that the directors of those fore mentioned movies are the most amazing, or that the actors in them are the greatest of all time, or that the story & scripts are masterpieces of dialogue and story telling... I believe it's that guys like movies about crime!...especially when the movie allows them to live vicariously as a crime character for the duration of the film.

I assume that these types of movies fulfill a wish in many males of having power & control & excitement in their life, something that's not always easy to come by in the real word ...The films you mentioned are full of danger, going against the odds, risking life and limb, and revenge, lots of revenge in those movies. And it would seem these movies are about having control and power, something most of us don't always have.

then why do you think the lead performance in amadeus/the movie for which robert duvall won oscar/the movie for which jeremy irons won oscar doesnt carry the same passionate fan base and support as marlon brando in godfather or robert de niro in raging bull or anthony hopkins in silence of the lambs.

christoph waltz in inglourious is the most remembered character in the movie where as his performance in django unchained isnt well remembered.

what surprises me the most is that many people are oblivious to this....i remember a youtuber praising wolf of wallstreet and calling it one of the greatest movies ever made. The movie according to filmmakers is a cautionary tale on excess and greed. But i can clearly see why the you tuber liked the movie. The protagonist in the movie like the youtuber is an entrepreneur making his own business and willing to succeed at any cost.
its not a judgement its just an observation i made.

Why do you think two or three hand-picked examples are an adequate stand in for the entire art form? I made a point about cherry-picking and confirmation bias, so why would just coming up with a few anecdotal examples be a response to that?

I genuinely have no idea how this example is meant to make your point.

As has been pointed out in other threads, you cannot draw broad conclusions from random YouTube comments (or videos, or blogs, or whatever).

I think 90% of the things you're baffled by or want an explanation for are the result of trying to extrapolate tiny little scraps of data into larger truths.

Wrong. They are both fondly remembered.

And if you ask me, I don't really like the mindset you're going in with. You're assuming that everyone who loves those aforementioned movies do so because they are full of machismo, when in reality those movies are beloved because they are very finely acted and well-written movies. Really, who gives a **** about being the highest in power, having all the money in the world and controlling people? I just think it's fascinating getting insights into the dirty crime world, since there are so many stories to tell from there. I never aspired to be like Liotta in Goodfellas, or Jordan Belfort in Wolf Of Wall Street.

And I see Amadeus talked about all the time. So not sure what you are getting at with that either. A lot of the sentimental movies are still talked about by many, Schindler's List has just as passionate a fanbase as The Godfather.

how about this
https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...c,%2Fm%2F0hmr4

its a google trends link

i am glad that you like them. But my opinion is not microcosm. Its much broader.

https://trends.google.com/trends/exp...c,%2Fm%2F0hmr4

Given that I've explained the issue is using your hand-picked movies as stand-ins for all movies, why would a Google Trends link with those hand-picked movies serve as a response?

i am comparing the best with the best.
Best comedy with best gangster movie. and with best period piece.
If the bests of the genre has such disparity then its applies to all.
Wouldnt people compared highest paid actor with highest paid actress to explain wage disparity.

@aronisred

I've heard it said many times, that the average movie goer is young and so movies are often geared towards their age demographics as that's where the profit is. This seems to be a good resource.

American Moviegoers by Age and Ethnicity

According to that site, the average movie goer in America is 18-24. That might explain why some of those movies you mentioned are so popular.

Once again, just so many things in this thread that are questionable at best, and completely out to lunch at worst.


- The idea that masculinity is inherently negative.
- The idea that a tiny sample of data taken from a slanted source is anything but anecdotal
- The idea that "In ten years a Russian..." - I don't even know where to start here.

Your attempts to psychoanalyze the entire film-going public continue to be mildly amusing, while simultaneously not making much sense. The majority, or even entirety of your posts on this site center around your dissatisfaction in how other people allegedly enjoy/perceive/parse/process films. Why does that even matter? Why not try sharing some of your opinions on films in some of the discussions that are ongoing on the site, without the main focus of the argument being that whomever holds different opinions must be 14 year old children?

Just a thought!

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This has got to be self-parody.

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Nothing to see here, folks. It's just some dude who wants us to think he's hot **** because he doesn't like what's mainstream.

I am saying in terms of impact a movie has on culture is much more possible with a masculine movie as opposed to some feel good movie. Pulp fiction has passionate followers and not forrest gump.

you see, people above 60 yrs have no other choice but to keep their mind occupied, so they tend to watch movies and be involved. They are target audience for movies like the post, bridge of spies,lincoln,mamma mia,meryl streep movies or clint eastwood movies . But younger people on the other hand watches movies that they are absolutely passionate about. So the impact those movies have on them are much more significant than a 70 yr old who watches movie to kill time.I am not being ageist.

Young people don't wanna see movie about a lonely middle aged newyorker...they want to see someone who is badass.