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I started thumbing out a reply on my mobile last night but gave up. Maybe I can waste a few minutes at the workplace to give a proper response now

At the end of the day, I found the puzzles and objects used to solve some of the puzzles to be nonintuitive. The discovery of how to use these objects or how to navigate a particular puzzle game mostly seemed arbitrary to me. At times, it felt like my goal was to poke everything on the screen because anything on this screen may or may not affect other things on this or neighboring screens. I rarely click things because it was logical, but because nothing else had worked yet.

Much of this game seemed to be one trial and error step after another until finally landing on a solution because nothing else before that point worked either, so why not try this next random idea!

One example of a good puzzle experience, IMO, was within the elevator. For each floor, you have to decipher a light grid. One design per floor. Hints were in the room, actually scratched onto the elevator wall with one pattern remaining obscured by a low hanging branch of the large potted tree sitting to the far right of the elevator. I suppose I could argue that those "hints" were out in the open and complete, so they were maybe too much, but you could at least investigate the immediate environment for guidance. There were still missing light bulbs that must be found to move forward. Another area that was kind of fun, if not frustrating, was the green house laboratory. This one had the slide projector. Cycling through the slides offered hints to the pattern necessary for the exit puzzle. These were hints, found within the room, to be found if explored to piece the logical next steps together.

Other puzzles were more chaotic to me, such as the longer sequence of finding a battery for the elevator guard's pet. Eventually, I discovered that the arcade cabinets produced coins for beating a score. Great! Earn a coin, buy a battery! Simple enough, except the guard won't take your battery. Oh. Maybe I need two? The second arcade offers another coin! Yay! Wait. Do I buy another battery or some oil from the bartender? Surely that has significance? But WAIT WAIT! The third arcade won't charge! Off to quest for why that is and what tool I need to repair it... Which was a dead end because there's no repairing it. Back to the immediate task, the guard would not accept the first battery. Nor the second. Surely a third!? Completely unaware how the wheelchair robot bandage plays a role here, I just kept running around the game looking for hints to repair the third game. Or wondering if buying oil from the bartender was part of the solution. If so, drats! I have no more coins and the arcades only give you one per play total. Did I make a mistake buying batteries instead of oil?! I'll never know now!

I've read how people love this game. I admit, it is visually adorable. The character designs, the artwork, environments, and even the silly little flashbacks are all quite sweet. Past that, mostof the puzzles just irritated me to no end. I found little logic or intuitive guidance by way of clues. My game was try everything until something works. That's just not fun to me, and I would argue is poor basic design. But I know that may take away from other people's enjoyment of it here and i don't want to do that. I will admit that I returned to this game daily hoping to break through to the next puzzle and I really enjoyed the Mayor's brain maze, so there is a return factor here. I've completed it though, and I doubt I'll ever go back to start over. Unless it's to hear the lil guy's "wow!" voice of minimal robotic excitement.

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"My Dionne Warwick understanding of your dream indicates that you are ambivalent on how you want life to eventually screw you." - Joel

"Ever try to forcibly pin down a house cat? It's not easy." - Captain Steel

"I just can't get pass sticking a finger up a dog's butt." - John Dumbear

I guess I found it more logical than you, I found most puzzles to make sense, or at least make sense in retrospect (which is kind of the ideal: the "ahhhh, I should've seen that sooner" response). A few more or less so, of course.

To some degree you're describing the problem inherent in all point and click puzzle games. The good ones are the ones that don't do this much and the bad ones are the ones that do it a lot, and every puzzle will strike people as more or less fair, more or less intuitive.

It's hard to say more without knowing how you play them. Some people click a ton right away, some people sit and think a lot, et cetera.

Anyway, I think you should consider trying Creaks if you haven't already. Same developer, but it's a much "purer" puzzle game, much more straight logic based on consistent rules. And just as visually striking/pleasing.

That's an interesting perspective, though I can't say I felt the same connection to the same degree. While the alternate endings aren't uplifting, I didn't get the sense they ruined the game so much as provided whole new stories onto it. Maybe if the game had leaned more into the endings glitching up the game and making it unplayable (a couple leaned into this), I'd be able to feel that connection better.

As an aside, I actually enjoyed the Ultra Deluxe version quite a bit as I felt the tone of the new endings in that game balanced out their depressing bits with a degree of levity and silliness which this one lacked.

Also, you should play The Beginner's Guide if you haven't yet. There's an interesting post Wreden wrote before making it which adds some interesting context to the game (skip to the "Game of the Year" section: http://web.archive.org/web/201706031...ctic-cafe.com/

I have the DLC, but I had the hair-brained idea to start an entirely new character, starting the entire game over, as I want to tick off another one of the endings ( I previously got the "Vault of Stars" ending). I am just about to get to the Capital Outskirts, so I still have a fair amount to go before I slide into the DLC content.

Meanwhile: I ran through Man of Medan with a friend over a couple of nights this past week. It was a fun little horror distraction and we managed to keep the entire cast alive. Pretty sure I managed to get everyone killed when I played Until Dawn.

Stelly was running around in Journey the other day, and she loves it!

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Oh yeah, I liked the Ultra Deluxe. I thought it might just be a few extras and I was happy to pony up for that, but obviously it ended up being a lot more. I'd say more but it would spoil some of the fun for others.

I have indeed played The Beginner's Guide. Or I've watched someone else play it? I forget which, though with a game like that it matters less than most. A little less fun and more abstract but definitely interesting.

I increasingly prefer high concept games like these.

Oh, that's lovely. It's really amazing that they've made a game which a grown man and a small girl might both love, and even love equally.

I somehow managed to learn nothing about the most significant parts of Journey even though I played it many years after its release. In fact, the big Thing about it, I didn't even have confirmed until after I'd played it, which was absolutely delightful because my memories of things during the game rushed back to me, recontextualized. Truly exceptional.

I am wondering what the BIG THING is...

Because you haven't played it, or because you've played it but you're not sure which thing I mean?

Same here. I know the "they're not real games" crowd sometimes dismisses them outright, but i consider a handful of them to be quite excellent, so I think people who use that are doing both the games and themselves a disservice.

Yeah, I mean I'm just here for experiences. Sometimes that means gameplay and mechanics, sometimes not.

On some level I don't mind complaints like "walking simulator," if only because people are trying to convey an idea that people care about: does this game respond to your agency much, or not? It's a little glib as a term but it does convey meaningful information that's reasonable for people to care about.

That said, yeah, I think someone would have to be a little incurious to not care at all about games like this, with zero exceptions.

I have played through it many times, and I adore the game. I am just not sure what you mean.

Ah. I'll leave a comment then.

I'm all caught up. Funny thing, when I was first playing it, I didn't run into that right away, and when I got the final section, all of a sudden I saw someone else struggling along, and it hit me in a really profound way. Not just what you mention, but a good portion of the underlying philosophy of the game. I saw them struggling along in the cold and wind it all came crashing down on me like a ton of bricks - how brilliant and subtle the game was and how profound. I will always remember those few moments of gaming.

Another cool tidbit with 5 year-old Stelly as she played. She had just figured out how to free one of the little carpets that carry you along for a bit and then set you down, and I explained to her that it was something called allegory, which I explained to her is something that presents itself as one thing, but means something else. I said "See, you helped him and then he helped you." and she said...

"Because he is my friend, Daddy. If we help our friends, they will help us."

She got it.

I think I have something in my eye...

NO!!!! I NEEEEED to know this too!?
Journey makes me cry with joy and a weird sadness, both at the same time when I replay.

loving Pokemon Emerald. really wish i had a physical copy tho. playing on my phone just ain't the same. but man i do like playing at double speed!

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"This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined." -Baruch Spinoza

Oh, that's right! You like games like that one you keep insisting *I* should like too! Bah humbug. I'll stick with Machinarium and the rest of that game company's offerings!

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Speaking of games that you should play and like, check out Journey!

Coworker gave up recently on Don't Starve Together on PC. Looks cute. Anyone here tried this one?

Finally played Balatro. Yep, it's as good as everyone says. Super addictive, both light and deep.

I will say, the "edge" came off surprisingly quick when I finally finished a run. I've kept playing it, and have finished with another deck, and might try to finish with each, but the really crazy compulsion to keep playing was only there until the first finished run. Still loving it but I expected less of a replayability dropoff.

Great game though. Just a question of whether I'll kinda fizzle out after another few decks or whether it stays interesting enough that I hit that next level of obsession with it, and go something closer to completionism. Which is still quite plausible.

I had the replayability dropoff, but it went from playing hours a day to playing it like an hour a day, which is still quite a bit for me. I still have plenty of stakes to get through, so it remains to be seen when I move on to something else.