Would I Like This Movie?

who cares if hes being homophobic hes entitled to his own opinions just like how i dont like homos. and also jsut like how u guys like homos i dont like homos served

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Mad Max Fury road is trash

His wording suggests that he has a problem with gay sex.

Anyway, I was thinking about this earlier and, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure neither man was married when they first got together.

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Ledger was engaged at the beginning, but he didn't seem passionate about it.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

LOL! Now we're getting somewhere!
I'm dying to hear which parts are "homophobic" (and I'm sure you're aware that usually it's latent and/or closeted homosexuals that have an irrational fear of same-gender-sexuality). I'd love to hear your prognosis of where I fit in.

It's clear that Jack isn't gay and that Ennis is not the first man he's been with??? Isn't that kind of a contradiction in terms? If you're a male who's NOT gay, then you probably haven't been with ANY men, no less multiple ones.

Yeah. I did see the film. It seems obvious that due to the times, culture, social norms & mores, familial pressures, expectations, acceptable gender roles, etc. that they are both repressed homosexuals that are living in denial. Maybe for Ennis this is the first time he's truly realizing it, but for straight men, giving or receiving sodomy with another male is neither an option, a consideration or even a stray thought.

Maybe I don't remember the film that well because it seemed to me that once they got over the initial questioning & awkwardness, what you described ultimately became their only reason for "goin' fishin."

I agree with you that most relationships based on romantic love (as opposed to brotherly love or familial love) usually involve sex, but as to the movie not being about me... Now THAT is an understatement!

Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) was aware of his interest in men, and had already acted on it before, I imagine. He wound up alone on Brokeback Mountain with Ennis (Heath Ledger), felt attracted to him, and at the right moment, he sort of "seduced" Ennis in that tent, suspecting that Ennis might be into it. He was right, and they had sex. This complicated things for Ennis, since I guess he had never done it with a man before. He wanted to forget about it. But he couldn't. His feelings for Jack never went away, but he got married, Jack got married, and yet still they saw each other sometimes. Jack wanted Ennis to leave his wife and stay with him forever. Ennis couldn't do that. Ennis basically didn't want to be gay. He didn't want to live with another man that way. Jack dies. Ennis feels regret and misses him.

That's basically Brokeback Mountain as I remember it.

An accurate summary. My question was the whole denial aspect. At one point both guys try to tell each other they're not gay. That's like trying to kid a kidder.

If you want to deny something to someone who doesn't know... well, you may be successful. But you can't deny something to the person who you just did the thing you're denying with. (Gosh, what an awkward sentence!)

Bottom line: Cousin Eddie was the only straight guy up on Brokeback Mountain!

Oh, come on. It's two people who've done something they know they shouldn't have, and they're acting like, "THIS NEVER HAPPENED."

That's all it is.

I'll drink to that!

You seem to have a big problem with the fact that two men *gasp* had anal sex in a movie about two men falling in love. Would you have had the same complaint if one of them was a woman? What if they had oral sex instead of anal?

It's called I fvcked up when I was typing. I started to say "Jack isn't straight" then decided to say "Jack is gay" but apparently didn't delete enough of what I'd already typed.

I don't know why you keep clinging to the notion of what "straight" men do or don't do or why you think it's relevant to Brokeback Mountain. Again, sexuality isn't black and white. People aren't just straight or gay. Even the term bisexual doesn't really fit most people who fall somewhere inbetween since many of them are more strongly attracted to one sex over the other.

Yeah, once they reunited they had to come up with excuses for meeting in private. That's called being in the closet and trying to keep it secret for safety's sake. Not an unwise thing considering the risks. Not that it ultimately did Jack much good.

Vicky, where do you get the idea I have a big problem with the sex in the movie. I knew what it was about going in - if I had such a problem with it, I wouldn't have watched it. I'm not complaining about it - that was the plot. We're just discussing it.

Regarding the typo - no sweat. I make these constantly myself and am always getting tenses mixed up. I'd never hold a typo against anyone (unless it's a really funny one - then I'll have fun with it!)

The one area where I'll kind of disagree is on the orientation issue (which has pretty much been my only point all along). These were two homosexuals in denial. I have this opinion because I kind of buy into the current prevailing idea (within the psychiatric & medical community) that homosexuality is not a choice, but that MOST homosexuals are born with the potentiality already in their genes.

But PC thinking goes a step further and tries to introduce the idea that maybe one or both of the characters in this movie were straight and were seduced into homosexuality since it is such a healthy and natural thing.

As "incorrect" and objectionable as it is to say, the truth is that straight men are usually repulsed by gay sex - not by homosexuals, but by the acts of gay sex. Straight men don't get seduced into homosexuality or fall in love with other men and must therefore convert their orientation, or have an off night where they slip into it - unless they already have gay or bi-sexual inclinations.

That's really the only thing I take issue with - and not even the film tried to say that (I don't think), but I've heard a lot of people try to apply this philosophy to the film -

That it's not just about two gay men living in a time & place where they were forced to hide their true selves from their families, society and even from themselves, but that heterosexual men can and will fall into homosexuality with the "right" person once they overcome the ages old stigma attached to it because it is just a natural state of being. Because being straight is really just one of several choices - but that choice is based on a cultural fallacy that is conditioned into men by traditional society & religion, while in reality they are all equally latent homosexuals or bi-sexuals because there is no standard of sexuality, all humans are just born as sexual beings. The new doctrine states that there is no "natural" biologically-driven sexual orientation.
Some have tried to apply the same discriminant philosophy onto heteros that has been applied to homosexuals for centuries.
But then, what goes around comes around.

And I've never heard anybody say that about the film before.

Me neither.

One thing I'll never understand is some people's desire to hurt others (for whatever reason).
The only people I've ever wanted to hurt are those who hurt others - to stop them - which is basically self defense or the defense of others.

Yes, yes, yes. I've noted the Superman avatar. Which, BTW, looks rather hunky.

You brought up the scumbag that murdered the gay people in FL. (We'll save the terrorism aspect for another time.) But let's say he hated himself for being gay - what does killing gay people accomplish? If you're unhappy with something about yourself, why not just kill yourself?

I'm fat. Would it make be feel better about myself to go hurt some other fat people? Would that make me feel thinner? It's just a reaction that's beyond my conception.

Whether it's hurting people who are the same because of something you don't like about yourself or hurting people because you perceive them as different - I've just never gotten it. I know it's psychologically convoluted, but I never felt it as a child, as a teen or as an adult - despite seeing it being played out all around me and being a victim to it.

They don't feel like they're the problem themselves. They deny the idea that there's something wrong with them. They blame other people. The other people are happy. The killers don't feel happy, but the problem isn't them, it's the other people. If a closeted gay guy killed out and proud gay people, it's a way to vent frustration -- the frustration of not being able to enjoy life like those people. They shouldn't be happy, they think. "They're gay -- gay is wrong -- gay is bad -- they should die for being gay." That's what they think. That's how they rationalize it.

People who commit suicide think they're the problem. People who kill other people think other people are the problem. As Zsa Zsa Gabor would say, it's simple, darling.

Oh, I don't know...

...it must just be my imagination.

I'm confused as to how this is relevant to anything. Of course sexuality - of any kind - isn't a choice. The only choice there is to make is how you act on your attraction. At the same time though, I don't think sexuality is a strictly rigid thing that never changes and I don't agree that Ennis is definitely homosexual.

Say what? I don't know how this is "PC Thinking" and the only person I have ever heard/read say anything of the sort is Gene Shalit, who straight up called Jack Twist a "sexual predator" and is clearly a homophobe anyway.

I don't know why you keep making this argument when we're in agreement that neither Jack nor Ennis was "straight" in the first place.

I have no idea what "new doctrine" you're talking about. You're the first person I've ever encountered who has spouted that non-sense, even as an argument against it.

Or you'd just rather accuse people of being homophobic without fully listening and fully understanding a person because, what the Hell, it's just a random person on the internet and whatever I type won't affect me.

Yet he didn't answer my question when I asked if he'd have the same complaints if one of the people having sex was female.

Give him a break. The man admitted he's thought Justin Bieber was cute. That took guts to say.