The next 4 years

But I wanna make a thread about it. There's a lot of different groups in Iraq and the majority are...? Yeah, look that up and tell me everythings going to be rosy.

I remember that arguement. If you take 1942 dollars and add this or that to it. Whatever. How about if you take Mexican Pesos and blah blah blah. You're stretching.

That's the craziest thing I've heard today.

Too bad for you Yoda doesn't believe in censorship. That's something we do agree on. Except for the rap music part and he might win that one.

Have a cig whilst you research the Patriot Act.

Like the people in Iraq you mean?
Read the poll questions if you don't know what to complain about.

Republicans in those days weren't the same as the ones these days. Watch PBS or the History Channel.

By voting and posting our opinoins on message boards? Maybe we should inform people on how much Bush sucks since they don't seem to know.

Maybe you should go to another thread if you don't like this one. It's similar to changing the channel.

Yoda won't ban you unless you're a snert. We've had millions of arguements and sometimes he was really pissed but I'm not banned. He's on the record as being against censorship, ask him.

This retort has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. Who said anything about private property? I don't see any property around here. If I may reiterate, this is a privately owned website, and your ability to post here has nothing to do with the United States government. Also, at no time did I attempt, or plan to attempt to silence you. Please do not attribute stances or ideals to me that I have not personally articulated. You are free to do whatever you want, but you still have to follow the rules. This also goes for entities and events on public property in the United States.

If the KKK went to an NBA game, and attempted to stand on the court and talk to the crowd about burning some crosses, could they just claim to be excercising their right to free speech, and not be removed?

How about the right of the owner of an establishment to refuse service to anyone? If, by some chaos theory driven random courtroom fiasco, this website was declared a piece of private property, over which the US government had jurisdiction, could not the owner of this public meeting establishment, not refuse service to you?

Ludicrous?

Not by a long shot.

*Thinking I have had this conversation before on this website*

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I'm not so sure about that one... if Bush's intervention in mid-east affairs in any way approximates his intervention in Iraq, peace would not be one of the things I would be expecting.

I'm certainly optimistic and I hope this happens, but I seriously doubt we're going to see much more than a bubble of resurgence.

such a negative poll. why not anything good. Bush is a good president. you all dont give him enough credit for what he has done in the last four years. we did find weapons of mass destruction, saddam huessien is a weapon of mass destruction. And he has made this country very safe. granted there shouldnt have had to be a tragedy to bring us around to this stuff, but he took charge and said its gonna be so tight in our airports and other major places that air cant get out without going through security. But you realize that the terrorists have done the impossible, they have rallied our entire nation to back on cause and along with many other countries, thats impossible with how many people with different ideas we have in the coalition we are in. so really we both hate and love the terrorists. we hate them because they killed over 2000 of us i think but we love them because they have united us as one nation instead of many different groups on one subject. now the next step is to unite everyone as one for many other ideas that are not right, like abortion or some thing.

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"An Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"
-Ben Kingsley, GHANDI

"Snozberries taste like snozberries"

I have read the patriot act.

Also, at what point was I complaining? I don't understand what you mean. I noted a lack of things for the Dems to blame this year.

Also, I see Yoda already covered the property thing. Darkhorse please explain how a virtual forum that exists in cyberspace is analagous to a piece of land.

Hey, you're putting words in my mouth. If you read half of what I posted above, I am the first to admit that the forum owner has the right to legitimately exercise his discretionary powers in the case of the violation of forum rules, such as, for example, the posting of obscenity, etc. Your analogy of the KKK applies to that. But to arbitrarily deny the right of a forum member to freely express himself within the prescribed rules of the forum amounts to trampling on their civil liberties. It is tantamount to silencing someone simply because you happen to disagree with them. That is wrong. It is also in violation of their constitutional rights and civil liberties. You made the analogy to the restauranteur who exercises the right to refuse service arbitrarily to someone. My understanding of this principle is that it applies to people who violate established standards of conduct in the establishment in question. In this case, it would apply to the rules governing the forum. However, a restauranteur who exercises that right to discriminate against certain people based on their opinions, for example, or, perhaps, their ethnicity... well, my point is that I wouldn't be terribly keen to patronize that kind of restaurant, if you catch my drift. And I'm pretty sure that many other people wouldn't either. So, to sum up, this is a tricky issue, far from being clear-cut. A great deal of vagueness here, but the simple fact is that an immoral action is an immoral action, however you may try to justify it. And to silence someone arbitrarily simply because you happen to disagree with them is an immoral action. There's no way around that. It would be a stain on your record.

Yes, please set down all the rules for how I should think. I was having trouble doing it myself. I figure 20 or so thought laws, just so folks won't forget.

I think I am getting it:

people with different ideas = bad

rank and file drone-like hivemind = good

you no what? i think Bush is a great president and my dog could govern better than kerry if he won. and i hate it when people dont nessesarily like kerry but hate bush and just vote for kerry because they dont want to see bush in office again.

You still misunderstand me, but you also make a good point about the restaurant. If the owner was to just arbitrarily kick people out, the business would suffer, but that would be his choice, another constitutional concept. The effect would be that he goes out of business and would have to deal with the negative effects. However, I still insist, the owner of said property can arbitrarily kick someone off their property, if this was a piece of property, which it isn't, just for being their. that is their right as the owner of the property.

It also feel that would be morally shadey, to say the least, but talking hard facts here, he has the right to do it, and free speech does not come into play. I don't see Yoda as someone who would ban someone for disagreeing with him, people do it every day.

Just trying to stay focused here.

I didn't vote for Kerry captain assumptive-pants.

I like this post, and Tolstoy's and Henry The Kid's. They're not in denial like Yoda

Trust me…you’re talking to the wrong guy about this. But I feel ya!

I have respect for this board and the people on it.
If I ever say anything wrong or offensive to anyone they can talk to me or PM me, because deep down inside to the core of it all...I'm really a nice guy.

Besides it's not Yoda I was worried about. It's the mods...


they're CrAzY!

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We already knew that AL

That we knew too!

This will not work. I tried to get my dogs on welfare and the mean lady with zero speaking skills at the welfare office said no.

I'm just sayin'.

GO BUSH!!!! HE GAVE KERRY A GOOD COUNTRY @$$ WHOOPIN!!!
Bush is a great guy he has done more for this country than anyone gives him credit for and Kerry is a great senator but he doesnt have the expierience to govern a country, trust me on this one. if he becomes the president next election and does better than Bush, then and only then i will retract my previous comments.

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"Lets Hop On The Good Foot And Do The Bad Thing!! YAAAA BABY!!!! YA!!!"

Donate blood, move to Houston in the summer.

OOOOOO I wish I was an Oscar Meyer Weiner, because that is what I truly want to be, And if I was an Oscar Meyer Weiner Everyone Would be in love with me!!!!!

Hey, nothing personal! lol! I guess I got a bit carried away.

That said, here's my "official statement" on Kerry vs. Bush:

John F. Kerry is a genuine hero in the true sense of the word. That's my personal opinion. This guy has done more for this country just running for president than Bush did in the four years of his first presidency. Kerry is a decorated war hero who displayed the same moral integrity and courage in his run for the presidency that he did when he testified before the senate protesting the Vietnam War. The fact that he came so close to the prize is a testament to his character. Here is a man who truly deserves to be president, again, in my opinion. I will miss his presence in the media, because his campaign for the Oval Office gave me hope in a dark time. God bless him! I salute his courage! He entered into an arena that was clouded with fear and chaos and turned it into something very, very good and hopeful for America, even if he fell short of the final prize.

George W. Bush, on the other hand, is an average Joe who has, for some inexplicable reason, been given all the breaks in life, even though, in my opinion, he is completely undeserving of them! He is a mediocre personality at best--mediocre in leadership, mediocre in character and definitely mediocre (and banal) in his rhetoric. He is mediocre in intellect and education and mediocre in his political agenda. He doesn't strike me as a particularly bad or evil man, just as a mediocre, banal, undeserving one. He has been given the gift of a second term in office--a gift that, in my opinion, he definitely does not deserve. Here's hoping that he doesn't make a complete mess of things (as he has done with Iraq). Here's hoping that four years down the line, we still have a country to go to the polls! Here's to being optimistic and hopeful for America!

Fact is, I'm still recovering from the shock of seeing Kerry lose the presidency. I guess it just goes to show how far-reaching the shockwaves of 9/11 are. Because, let's face it, if it weren't for 9/11 and its repurcussions, there is no way that Bush would ever have been re-elected. Again, that's my opinion. I honestly believed that Kerry was a shoo-in for the job. I guess I underestimated what corporate backing and advertizing blitzes can do and how a candidate's credentials can be so totally overshadowed by his media image. This is really, really sad, in my opinion.

Hey little sunfrog, where have you been nice to see you back

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Health is the greatest gift, contentment the greatest wealth, faithfulness the best relationship.
Buddha

I, for one, hope that the USA continues to defy the UN. It is a worthless organization for dealing with war issues. How many wars since WWII have actually went through the UN for approval?

As a relief organization and perhaps a human rights organization it can have its place. It has shown its complete ineptness in dealing with the Israeli issue, dealing Israel basically as many resolutions as every other country in the world combined basically. Its pathetic and it is just an official front for the antisemetism that still exists today around the world.

Any organization with France and Russia having veto powers is worth nothing for getting anything done.

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Just back from my Alaskan cruise.
Highlights - art auctions at amazing prices, got my Divine Comedy original edition for the cost of the frame. All you can eat steak, lobster, shrimp, ribs... hmmmmm
Low points - Seen it all before not living too far from Alaska

That's absolutely ridiculous. As sympathetic as I am for Israel, their practices are more than worthy of a lot of these resolutions. While Palestine may be the chief aggressors, to call Israel innocent is incredibly naive.

And furthermore, you completely missed my point. If we EVER want the UN to actually DO something, then we can't keep defying it so much. Guess what, we can't go saving all the countries in the world on our own. We need an international body(where all countries send troops) that can handle those things. Our foreign policy needs some serious revamping, as we're sending ourselves farther down a road that we won't be able to walk back on.

The UN has some problems, but if your democracy is so precious to you, a strong UN is the only way it will ever be achieved. We can't take the whole world. Stop talking party lines, and think about it. We did some good in Iraq yes, but what about the hundreds of other countries that still need to be liberated? I believe in a hands-off foreign policy, with a strengthened UN.

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You're not hopeless...

Iraq was a complete mess before the war, and although it is still not close to recovering it is headed in the right direction. You cannot turn a country around in a few years it will take a long time.


You may very well be right, so I see it has at least turned around...we cannot blame 9/11 on Bush but we can blame Bush on 9/11.

This just is not true..not this time around. While ads may have swayed some voters one way or another most people knew who they were voting for the moment Kerry was nominated, not many changed their minds. I am going by polls I have seen, and while polls can be wrong, the numbers I saw relating to this were just too staggering to dismiss.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton