Same sex marriage & Polygamy

Interesting.

so not all Californians who oppose gay marriage are black. nor are all people who oppose gay marriage backwards, sheltered or fundies from the southern bible belt. who knew? brave kid - good for her.



the judges' waffling on this issue is the most damning:

They are complete liars. The girl couldnt have answered more graciously, and anyone who has ever been even an emotional victim of real hate knows that. I wonder. How exactly do you "express tact" or "social grace" when asked a direct, yes or no question?

You do the politically correct thing and lie, and get patted on the back for your social grace and your political savvy, or you tell the truth in the nicest way you can, and be villified - not for your lack of tact, or inability to excude social grace - but because of your disagreement with the majority opinion.

Because let's face it - no answer other than slavering agreement would have satisfied. The other girls said it best:

Perez Hilton painted her into that corner, and the pageant basically "set up" all contestants by even having a tactless social accident such as him on the judicial panel.

That would be like me being the question asker on the Political Debate between Obama and McCain, and then asking McCain "Don't you think that the America should earmark more money in social programs specifically to poor Blacks?"

What could he possibly answer with out creating a political nightmare? Even if he answered as gently, sincerely and honestly as he could, his answer would still be "no."

Cue the angry mob out for his "racist" blood.

__________________
something witty goes here......

Oh, and I couldn't agree more with mack's last post, about Prejean. Her answer was so vanilla and plain that I can't really fathom how it could have been more tactful, without adding "but that's just my opinion" at the end of every single sentence. It's a joke that it was asked, it's a joke that she lost for it, and it's a joke that Perez Hilton was sitting in that judge's chair to begin with. I can't stand these pseudo-celebrity types, and it's even worse when they inflate their importance and make themselves the story at events like these. Good grief.

I'm glad she was asked. I'm glad she "lost for it" if indeed that was the reason she lost. I'm glad we currently live in a social atmosphere that these things could happen. All in all it should further the cause for gay rights and gay marriage which I am all for. I'd like my daugther to be able to live a full and out life without fear.

__________________
Bleacheddecay

Maine legalizes same-sex marriage

The slippery slope is becoming a landslide...New England...

__________________
http://www.last.fm/user/diezelpower/

Washington D.C. voted to recognize same sex marriages in other states.

Personally, at this time, because of all the crap I've gone through, I could care less. I am still seeing gay couples getting married - that I know - who I don't think really deserve these marriages... especially certain polyamorous people I know. Other people I know are saying they're a committed couple for life only after a day or two of knowing each other.

When you see gay couples getting married on TV, yes there are men, but it's mostly lesbians. Now why could that be?

Thank God I didn't get legally married to my ex. Maybe being single right now has its advantages. It would have been awful to be legally contracted to that man.

Let's try to keep our personal disillusionment with gay men separate from the fight for equality...

Hey, I'm straight and I was married to a truly horrible person once. I'm not so big on marriage in general, although I'm currently happily married.

Women in our society have been brainwashed into thinking they should want to be married when men receive the lion's share of benefits. That might account for more lesbians marrying too.

I just believe in equal rights.

They don't usually get asked "heavy" questions like that, and it's certainly not even remotely normal for them to be penalized for having differing political opinions from the judges. That's unheard of and ridiculous. The judges are there to judge them on their merits as contestants, not to critique their ideology.

Moreover, the judge (who's just a celebrity gossip hound, by the way) gave a completely self-contradictory reason for his decision, saying it lacked tact. This is mind-boggling, as she stated her opinion in the simplest, most vanilla way you possibly can.

Being for gay rights doesn't mean you have to issue kneejerk opinions like this without regard for circumstance. The question, and the fact that she lost for her answer to it, is absurd, no matter how you feel about the issue.

I'm not entirely convinced she did lose for that reason. The people who put the show together are trying to make it have higher ratings. Who they picked as a judge and what that judge asked are all part of it as well as any controversy they can dredge up.

Beauty queen contestants know what a dirty pool they are playing in. They go into these things eyes wide open. Crying foul later because it didn't work out the way they hoped, is simply silly.

Call my opinion a knee jerk one if you like it remains firm and unchanged.

BTW, in my experience liberals are far less likely to be knee jerk-ish than conservatives but of course one can color another with any brush even if it doesn't fit a person.

Well, Perez is openly homosexual, called her a "dumb bitch" afterwards for her answer and said she had "half a brain," and made some reference to wanting to rip the tiara from her head if she won. Pretty clear which side he came down on here.

So, no, technically we don't know that's why she lost, but everything's pointing in the same direction here. But whether or not it was the difference is beside the point, anyway.

So, the mere fact that they picked someone and like ratings inherently makes anything they do or say acceptable?

Not sure I see what you're saying here, either...the pageant world is cutthroat, so again, it's silly to take issue with double (or shifting) standards? I don't see how the competitiveness of beauty pageants has anything to do with this.

Kneejerk opinions often are, in my opinion. Sorry, but I just don't think it makes sense, and I think it stems entirely from your stance on the larger issue, rather than a geniune consideration of the circumstances involved.

I've yet to meet a liberal who didn't think liberals were less likely to be "knee jerk-ish" than conservatives. Whether or not one group or the other is more prone to it in general is completely irrelevant to the point in question, however, and probably impossible to know anyway.

Yoda,

Clearly we feel very differently about this. I can agree to disagree.

BTW, I think it's actually helped the beauty queen out a great deal. I'd wager more people know her name than the winner's name.

I'm personally hoping that she will become yet another galvanizing factor in the fight for gay rights.

Meanwhile at least one Southern conservative state instead of tending to business has or has tried to, (I haven't followed it lately) pass a resolution in support of the "virtuous" beauty queen.

Well, I won't force an argument where it isn't wanted; just felt obligated to say what I thought. I certainly agree that the controversy has probably helped her out overall; I think she said as much in an interview recently.

Quick question: Why do they ask beauty queens questions at all? Please let's not pretend that personality has anything to do with who does and doesn't win.

As for Hilton taking offense at what was said? This is a guy who's only claim to fame is that he badmouths and slags off anyone he doesn't like, just for the reason that he doesn't like them. And he's pissed off because of what she said? I don't agree with what she said, but the words "stones" and "glasshouses" spring to mind.

Came across an interesting quote the other day. Have a look at this:

"...I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anyone out there but that's how I was raised and that's how I think it should be between a man and a woman."

"I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman"

Quote #1: Carrie Prejean, Miss America contestant. Quote #2, President Barack Obama.

We've had a couple of huh-ooge Obama fans drop in this thread to express their utter disgust with Prejean's comments. Any of them care to reconcile this?

Well, I'm pretty sure I wasn't one of them but I'd just like to note that both seem to have the misconception that marriage is (solely) a religious institution, which simply isn't the case. The sooner people realize that the sooner same-sex couples will gain the right to marry...

Notice here how Obama avoids actually stating his own belief on the issue, merely stating what 'tradition and his religious beliefs' say. At no point does he explicitly say what he believes, while seeming to. Quite the politician...

Aye, quite the politician. But he doesn't look so good in either interpretation here: either he's directly contradicting the beliefs of many of his supporters here, or he's completely dodging the question in a way that is purposely designed to mislead.

And that's giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think he's of a level of political skill and intelligence that, saying the above, he knows what he is conveying to the listener, and thus has take a stance.

I thought the way she answered it was fine, thats what she believes in and she came across sincere. I honestly don't really care what happens with gay marriage as it doesn't affect me, but if a gun was too my head and i had to choose i think i would disagree because i can't get my head around a female/female,male/male when it comes down to real basic basics, like forget all the bulls*** if you know what i mean?(hard to explain without talking). But really i don't mind, neutral like switzerland


As for Perez Hilton what a f***ing d***.

Basic basics? Do you mean sex? Do you want someone to draw you a diagram? Cos that's the only thing that's different to heterosexual couples, really, otherwise it's just people who are in love and want to get married, what is there to not get your head around about that?

I really, really don't...

Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's too hard to guess what he means; I'm assuming he's just trying to avoid being explicit.

I won't try to speak for the man, but I assume he's talking about the basic mechanics of it all. Biologically speaking, humans are built a certain way that fits together for procreation. This doesn't prove that homosexuality is wrong, bad, or anything like that, but it's something that isn't ever really addressed by anyone making the case that homosexuality is perfectly natural, and it strikes me as a pretty big obstacle towards making that case. Strip away all morality, religion, or any of the other things that separate people on this issue, and you're still left with simple biological truths about how our bodies work.