Dune was boring

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@crumbsroom you got the patience of a saint

Nothing else to do while I'm sitting on a two hour bus commute going to work. Or standing around a psychiatric ward hallway not able to do my job because a patient lit himself on fire.


I've got my fair share of dead time to waste on this nonsense.



Sorry if I'm rude but I'm right
Nothing else to do while I'm sitting on a two hour bus commute going to work. Or standing around a psychiatric ward hallway not able to do my job because a patient lit himself on fire.
Sounds rough. Made me appreciate my remote work much more.
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Look, I'm not judging you - after all, I'm posting here myself, but maybe, just maybe, if you spent less time here and more time watching films, maybe, and I stress, maybe your taste would be of some value. Just a thought, ya know.



Is your argument now that movies that are designed to be blockbusters, and are marketed as blockbusters, sometimes are blockbusters?

>>>>>I guess I am.

If so, I hate to inform you that listing a bunch of movies that have a broad base of appeal and also attract a broad base of eyeballs, doesn't somehow cancel out my point that smaller movies, aimed at smaller audiences, still can return an investment.

>>>>>Sure, if the film makers are cognizant of a market that might make it work. I've seen lots of "small" movies that are favorites.

And it also doesn't have anything to do with my initial point that maybe appealing to the most Pavlovian instincts of movie audiences, and constantly making films that pander to their most brainless needs, is a piss poor way to make decent art.

>>>>>"Decent art"...what IS that? It depends on who the audience is and what they expect. Appealing to any audience with a movie is a lot harder than making a hungry dog salivate.

And it also doesn't have to do with my other other point that, if people weren't so preconditioned to reject ever being challenged by all this garbage they are constantly having stuffed down their throats, maybe people wouldn't get so impatient or distressed when they are occasionally being nudged towards thinking for two seconds. Maybe their first instinct wouldn't be to be bored as soon as there is any kind of slow moment in a film.

>>>>>A lot of them are tired by the time they get to the movies, probably had dinner and a beer and just want some escape. TV as we know it would not exist were it not for that. Before they had movies, they had dance halls, cheesy vaudeville, etc. Movies fill a role. Not everybody wants a challenge.

But sure, let's talk about how people really like big budget superhero movies because that never once occurred to me.

>>>>>>Some do, some just want to escape for a couple hours. Not everybody WANTS an intellectual challenge.
jhkjhk



I think we're at the point where this is going nowhere, but let's focus on these two points


"Decent art"...what IS that? It depends on who the audience is and what they expect.....


Not everybody wants a challenge....some just want to escape for a couple hours. Not everybody WANTS an intellectual challenge.


It always boils down to this. When someone is sneering at the notion of "Capital A Art", and making appeals that the market should be dictating what gets made, and that the general audience is what needs to primarily be catered to, it always comes back to these two basic points.


Firstly, there is no way to determine what is 'decent'? And then secondly, most audiences don't want to be challenged by what they watch. They want almost completely passive viewership because they're tired. They have lives they want to escape.



And these two thoughts turn out to work quite well in a tag team of total artistic apathy..

First we have all of these people, who were just looking for a 'night out', and maybe weren't willing to give the movie their full attention to begin with, because they've eaten, and have had a beer, and are looking only for one specific thing for the film to give them, and quite possibly don't have anything of particular interest to add to a larger conversation about the film beyond whether they either do or don't like the movie. It either aided the hopes or their night or it didn't.



Then we have their challenge that no one else can possibly have much to say in determining the films worth either. Certainly not the people who were paying attention. Certainly not the people who maybe had some patience with the film. Certainly not the people who might have a history of the type of movie they just watched. Certainly not those who had an open mind for whatever kind of experience the movie afforded them. Certainly not people who can articulate the thoughts and feelings they had when they watched the movie. Because how dare these people talk about what they believe to be good or not good. Because those people aren't me!


And this applies even when the 'me' in question doesn't have a single ****ing thing to say, other than 'yawn' or 'boooorinig' or 'too long' or 'I want my money back'.


Now, hold your horses before you start screaming about how there is no right and wrong in art, and it's all subjective and I have a right not to like whatever I don't and blah blah blah because NO SHIT. But this doesn't give those who have absolutely nothing to say about something equal footing with those who are actually attempting to talk about it. Who actually paid attention. Who actually put in an effort. Who don't immediately show distrust to those who approach a film or any piece of art with good faith.


Now if those people want to keep yawning themselves back into a coma because there was too much sand in Dune, that's their business. But don't talk about how your thoughts are equal to any other thought, and that there is no way to discuss quality in a film because it's completely subjective, and that you are the kind of person that should be having nearly every film market tested towards your basic tastes provide dividends towards investors.



A system of cells interlinked
Reading these posts, I think I come down somewhere in the middle (surprise, surprise). Sometimes, I really want to dig in, get punched in the face by visceral cinema, unpack difficult concepts, and maybe even come away having been changed in some way by what I have just experienced. Some nights, I am just tired and I want to veg out and have some easy escapist fun.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” ― Thomas Sowell



Reading these posts, I think I come down somewhere in the middle (surprise, surprise). Sometimes, I really want to dig in, get punched in the face by visceral cinema, unpack difficult concepts, and maybe even come away having been changed in some way by what I have just experienced. Some nights, I am just tired and I want to veg out and have some easy escapist fun.

Some nights I just want a diversion as well. And some nights I don't give a movie a chance, or don't pay attention, or am bored by it. And some movies I just have nothing to say about.


But in all those instances I am more than aware that others might have a better take than me. I don't dig my heels in with the 'well opinions are subjective' shit to cover up that I barely had an opinion in the first place. And I certainly don't then appeal to my half asleep allies and say that these are the people movie makers need to invest in. That no one really wants to see those quality movies because, hey, what is quality really anyways.


And keep in mind, all of this was started by a question I asked about the nature of boredom, not calling any specific person out. Simply how not all boredom is created equal. Sometimes it might be the fault of the movie, but sometimes it's definitely the fault of the viewer. And, unsurprisingly, simply questioning the possibility that a viewer who by all accounts wasn't giving the movie much attention maybe was the one at fault (and this is just a maybe, I haven't even seen the ****ing movie) we've seen every tactic that someone can use to dismiss the value of actual criticism, or the value of movies they don't like, all the while being sure to reinforce the necessity of placating the most general of audiences because that is what makes money....simply because 'boooring' is the hill they want to die on.


And we haven't even touched the funniest part that, after talking about a movies need to make money, and how this is really the only trustworthy metric of quality, Dune 2 is crushing at the box office. So these arguments about recouping investments don't even hold any water in the discussion at hand.



There's a big difference between "sometimes I don't feel like thinking about a movie" and not wanting anyone else to, either.

Also a big difference between not being in the mood for it and never being in the mood for it, but I won't really begrudge people that as long as they don't try to inflict that posture on anyone else. Particularly here; a movie forum has obviously self-selected for people who like to think and talk about movies a lot.



My take on the movie (both of DV's Dune films, actually) is a little different from what others have stated. It is a movie that falls into the "eye candy" category - a movie that may seem to offer a lot of "eye candy" but that ultimately doesn't have a lot of new ideas, and is simply happy to regurgitate cliches and story tropes without really adding anything that is particularly clever or interesting.

And yes, "eye candy" movies can sometimes work very well for audiences. Look at Avatar 2 - a movie that certainly had plenty of eye candy, but nothing terribly new or particularly interesting to offer intellectually. It was a big ol' rehash of story tropes that we've already seen too many times in movies and TV series. Sure, it looked really awesome in HDR 3D IMAX, but if you actually stopped to think what the movie was doing narratively, then it really didn't seem like James Cameron had anything particularly new or refreshing to offer.

So that fact that, imho, both the Avatar films and these new Dune films can be grouped together (very well, in fact) under the category of "great eye candy, but nothing really new under the hood" makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't fault the technical accomplishments of either of those series - making movies look good and bringing fictional worlds to life in a sufficiently convincing manner is nothing to sneeze at, even though they were all working with humongous budgets - and I would even go so far as to say that both series feature several actors whose presence is otherwise very welcome in movie screens.

I just put it to you that if you're looking for something that has truly interesting and fresh ideas going on underneath the surface (beyond paying a bit of lip service in a totally superficial way to what would appear to be "noble" causes), then maybe these movies aren't really going to be as satisfying for you as they would be for the average moviegoer.

That's just a personal opinion and I don't expect it will sway anyone or change anyone's established opinion on the movie. Nor is it being expressed with the intent of "yuking your yum" if you happened to enjoy the movie.

I just think DV's best work is represented by his body of work before he got involved with major IP projects. Some of his best work, especially his early films, did appear to promise some kind of intellectual appeal that promised something more to his work, whether you agreed with what he was saying or not. Polytechnique, in particular, struck me as a deeply-felt piece of cinema that was extraordinarily accomplished on a technical level while also having some deeper ideas going on beneath the surface.

It is unfortunate that his work with major IP has reduced him to the role of franchise runner, with much diminished results intellectually, while at the same time boosting his position as a more commercial filmmaker - the emphasis being on what will work commercially, first and foremost.



Well, I like it but it's nowhere near a masterpiece like many ppl try to prove!
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