The 27th General Hall of Fame

This was my last place vote, but like I said on my review and on further posts, I think it would benefit from a rewatch now with adjusted expectations and a different mindset. There were some things I really liked in it, regarding the direction and the mixture of frenetic chaos and harmonious "choreography" in the actors' movements.

__________________

Easily The Shawshank Redemption for me, with Stand By Me close behind.

Dolores Claiborne was my pick, and even I had it in the middle of the pack.

Bunch of savages in this town...

Congrats to @PHOENIX74 for the win!

I didn't save my ballot, so I don't know exactly how I voted; especially because I had a lot of pretty good films bunched in the middle. Ed can confirm, but it was something like...

1. Raiders of the Lost Ark
2. Jaws
3. Apocalypse Now
4. Midnight Cowboy
5. Magical Girl
6. Demons
7. One Cut of the Dead
8. Cure
9. Thunder Road
10. Dolores Claiborne
11. Baby Face
12. True Romance
13. Safety Last!
14. The Secret of Roan Inish
15. My Dog Skip
16. Mad Love

Had to be more or less like that. That bunch from 5 to 9, and then the next 3 or 4 were all hard to arrange.

1. Raiders of the lost Ark
2. Jaws
3. Cure
4. True Romance
5. Apocalypse Now
6. One Cut of the Dead
7. Demons
8. Thunder Road
9. Safety Last
10. Baby Face
11. Dolores Claiborne
12. Magical Girl
13. Midnight Cowboy
14. The Secret of Roan Inish
15. Mad Love
16. My Dog Skip

Awesome job everyone!!!!

__________________
"A laugh can be a very powerful thing. Why, sometimes in life, it's the only weapon we have."

Suspect's Reviews

Are you saying I'm dull and have no personality? I mean, you're not wrong, but...

Congrats, PHOENIX74!

Here is my ballot. Cure, Demons and Magical Girl were the most pleasant surprises. I look forward to exploring their directors' catalogs.

1. Jaws
2. Apocalypse Now
3. Raiders of the Lost Ark
4. Cure
5. The Secret of Roan Inish
6. Midnight Cowboy
7. Magical Girl
8. Demons
9. Baby Face
10. True Romance
11. Safety Last!
12. Dolores Claiborne
13. Thunder Road
14. One Cut of the Dead
15. Mad Love
16. My Dog Skip

We don't have to rehash the whole thing. But my understanding is that she wasn't a college student, she was a high-school aged teenager. Wikipedia says, "Marion entered into a relationship with Indiana Jones during this time (when she was 15, according to the novelization of Raiders of the Lost Ark).[8] Jones abruptly left the Ravenwoods in 1926; Marion was about 16 or 17 years old when the relationship ended, and Jones was 27, ten years her senior. Later in her life, Marion chastised Jones, stating, "I was a child! I was in love! It was wrong and you knew it!" Jones showed little remorse and simply replied, "You knew what you were doing."

I said elaborate! Elaborate! Yeesh! Some robots just can't take a compliment!

according to the novelization??? Sorry that doesn't count. If you want to take the time and find the film's script and then find verbatim where Marion (or anyone in the film) says she was 15 or under age, then I'd be interested in hearing about that. It's irrelevant to the film what was wrote later in a novelization.

1) The people who wrote and made the movie thought it would be funny if she were 11 years old, which Spielberg flags as being too young, to which the reply is "Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen it's not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met". And later in the interview "It's not as blatant as we're talking about. You don't think about it that much. You don't immediately realize how old she was at the time. It would be subtle. She could talk about it. "I was jail bait the last time we were together." She can flaunt it at him, but at the same time she never says, "I was fifteen years old."

It seems obvious to me (though you can disagree, of course) that the line "I was jail bait" became "I was a child". You can see right there in the conversation that they are talking about strongly implying but never outright saying she was 15. They discuss not saying it explicitly, so it's not surprising that there isn't a line where she says "I was 15!".

2) It seems kind of strange to me that a novelization would take the step of making Marion underaged if that weren't the original read of the situation. What writer would be like "Hey, I had this idea to make her too young for a learner's permit!".

3) Even if she were, say, an 18 year old college student and he was her professor, the way he says "You knew what you were doing" deeply infuriates me. So if that's the alternate "positive" read of the situation (that someone significantly older than a young woman and with power over her by virtue of their professional relationship had sex with that young woman), I still find it unethical and creepy.

You are right that no one ever comes out and says she was 15. But does anyone say that she was 17? Or a college student at the time? They don't. It is left ambiguous, just as it was implied they would in the original brainstorming session.

I already said during the countdown what I wanted to about Raiders and Marion and I told you last night I'm not interested in arguing about it. I'm working right now and I'm on a break, I don't have the time or the interest to make lengthy rebuttal post. Nothing in your post proves that Marion was represented as underage in the movie. As I said, if you can find the actual transcript to the film, read it and find proof that she was underage, I would then be interested in that. What was said in post production or in a novelization has no bearing as to whats on the film. And please remember they are fictional characters, not real.

There is no direct proof, of course. And I never said there was. Lots of movies imply but never explicitly state things. My interpretation of the dialogue that is in the film is, given the ton of contextual information about the intention of the writers, perfectly valid. You are welcome to your own interpretation, which is also perfectly valid.

I think that what was said in a planning session for a film does have a bearing on what's in the film. The line "I was a child" is ambiguous. The brainstorming session where the writers say "She was 15 but we won't come right out and say it" gives context to that line.

I know that they are fictional characters. But when a film asks me to cheer for a character I find sleazy, that has an impact on my enjoyment of the film.

That's not about me being PC or whatever---it's about how I as a viewer approach film. On Golden Pond is more powerful because Peter Fonda is acting alongside his daughter, Jane. When I posted about that film, at least one person mentioned how powerful they found it that the real life father and daughter were playing those roles. But their real-life relationship exists outside of what is on screen and the characters they are playing. It is not uncommon for outside context to impact how we feel (good or bad) about a movie and how much we enjoy it.

We just have different takes on the character and given an ambiguous plot point, we have fallen on different sides of how to interpret it.

There's no need to argue about Raiders of the Lost Ark but I will always bristle when someone tells me that I'm watching and reacting to movies incorrectly.

personally i found just what was on screen enough to find Indy unlikable

No one told you that you were personally reacting to the film incorrectly. That's something you internalized yourself. Closer to the truth to say that you can't tolerate another person's opposing viewpoint and that's something I've observed about you in the past months.

Also you can't respect my boundaries. I told you I don't want to argue about Raiders, BUT you can't stop yourself.

What in any of my posts shows that I can't tolerate your viewpoint? Is this tolerance of another viewpoint: "Probably for PC reasons I have to say the talk about Indy being a pedophile because a writer once brainstormed and then rejected the idea that Marion was underage when they had a relationship, was shi* talk."

Then don't argue about it. I am only replying to things you are saying. A simple "agree to disagree" (which is basically my last post), yes?

The above bolded passage was not directed directly at you, it was a reply to Siddon's post.

I replied to you not to argue, but to show you respect. I felt if I ignored your direct quote of my post, then it would be disrespectful not to reply...Anyway you may have the last word as I'm sure you want it, but if you really want to impress the house you won't take it.

I'm very much the same way. A lot of aspects I quite enjoyed and I'm a big fan of the two leading actors so another rewatch would be pretty cool for me.
Shawshank would be a definite, along with The Green Mile.
I did the same with my nom, it was around #6, give or take.

__________________
What I actually said to win MovieGal's heart:
- I might not be a real King of Kinkiness, but I make good pancakes

~Mr Minio

You are SOOO not let me live that down, are you? LOL (I wouldn't either

And with the quotes I kinda wonder now WHO did it first, but it's a great thing.

And when you DO come up with an idea, I am SOOO there!

And Thanks for nominating One Cut of the Dead that was a great lil nom and I really wish I could have put it higher than I did on my List.

Ed, can you confirm how I voted? Sorry, but I didn't save it and don't remember the exact placement