The MoFo Top 100 Animated Films - The Countdown

That works for me!

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"Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Cheers

But yeah, I have a thread ready to go, I'll wait for the top two films to be revealed first though. So either tomorrow or the day after we can start our Sixties preparation

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Not really. What I mean with a 100-1 order is that the points you give will be weighed by the amount of stuff you've watched. If you watched 100, it's fine, you can give 100 to your favorite. If you watched 50, 50 points. And so on.

I can't seem to find the reason for this negativity anyway. It is extremely difficult to handle a premade list with known entries, but counting and combining dozens of tops with new entries is not? I don't find the logic there to be honest. If only because it becomes easier to track. I already assume that in general terms this process implies more work because there are two rounds of voting and compilation of data, but there's also a lot more time for its development, since each of these rounds will have a specific deadline to vote.

Finally, I'd like to point that the method I mention here was used on another forum I write at, precisely under the premise of changing the format for a top film list. So it can and has been done before.

I for one am pumped. I still have much that I would like to get to watch.

But to get to that "premade list", you must first put in all the work to create it, then go through and collect votes again (not as easy as it might seem, people put it off and put it off and then forget to do it even with constant harrassment) and then tally said votes again. It also will take an already months-long process and make it take even longer.

I doubt very much that the outcome would create a significant enough difference as to make the extra time and extra work worthwhile and I also suspect that you'd have a pretty good drop in participation if done that way.

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Well, I already said that, didn't I? It would be a longer run thing, because it derives from the work put on this format and develops it further. And it doesn't have to be organized by only one user. Since there are two rounds of votes and counting, and they are independent from each other, each of them can be handled by one user separately.

Now, about the outcome. Would it create a significant difference? I honestly don't know. This is why we make these events anyway, to figure out things that we can't predict by default. But there's already a difference in the fact that depending on the amount of stuff watched one can give more points to their favorite or less. If you have watched 80 movies, you can give 80 points to your favorite; that's more than thrice the amount one who has only watched 25 entries in the list can give. The popular stuff gets more votes, but the value of these votes is weighed.

The primary hurdle is participation. It takes months and months, and lots of PMs and notices in the site header, to get even 70-80 entries as-is. That number would presumably go down quite a bit if you required a more involved selection process. And once these lists get below a certain number of entries, they produce wild results that don't reflect the opinions of more than a few people.

All I can see this process resulting in is less participation. If I've only seen 25 of the pre-set 100 films and the most I can give to my favorite is 25 points, while someone else can give their favorite 100, why should I even bother to vote?

This is exactly the reason why I gave the same points value to the number one vote of someone who turned in a ballot of 25 films as I did to someone who turned in a ballot of only 3 films (which was the shortest ballot I received). The idea of the list is to get a measure of the favorite animated films of the whole community, not just those who are already big fans of the medium and have already seen lots of animated films.

I had Spirited Away at #25. That probably isn't the right place for it, but as I was reducing my list down, I knew I wanted it on there but I was also trying to get some newer titles on the list too, so I just locked it into 25. As I've said before, I had about 35-40 titles and many didn't make it. Sorry if you think I should have put it higher.

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@MissVicky

Why should you bother to vote? Well, first and firemost because not voting for your favorite means 25 points less for it, in that case. These points still count and are part of its final score.

On the process. It's not that I disagree with what both you and Yoda point here. I mean, it's surely a long-term thing and there's the risk that people lose interest, but precisely on this forum with gazillions of tournaments, lists and tops taking place at the same time I think this would be the lesser of the concerns.

On the other hand, yes, people who watch or have watched more stuff will be able to give more points. And that is... unfair? Unexpected? I don't agree with this reasoning. I would understand that if there wasn't a deadline and a specific premade list to watch from, but there is. Let's assume for instance that people are given four months to watch stuff from their preliminary list. In this amount of time, they are able to catch up if they are interested, or prioritize, or just vote. It is not an immediate one-week ballot thing I'm talking about after all.

But people aren't going to see it that way. They're going to see it as "If my vote's only going to count for 25% of what this other MoFo's vote is going to count for, it's not worth my time or effort."

But that specific premade list is still 100 movies and if you've only seen 25 of them, that's 75 movies you have to watch in four months to get your favorite to count for as much as someone else's - while still participating in the "Gazillion" other lists, tournaments, games etc. and still watching the unrelated movies you want to watch and... you know... dealing with non-movie related real life stuff like work and family. So again, if I'm someone who's only seen 25 of the "pre-set" list, it's not going to seem worth my while.

I don't quite follow this part. Could you elaborate? Unless I'm misunderstanding, I would think the fact that we have tons of tournaments and lists is one of the reasons it can be so hard to get people to participate: a lot of things are vying for their attention.

Whatever the theory, though, the reality has always been that it's taken a ton of work to get a usable number of participants, and that we can safely assume more steps (and more work) will lead to a drop in participation. Whether or not that's acceptable is an abstract question, but I think it's clear that this would be the trade-off.

What I'm saying there is that people are very involved with tourneys, tops and lists there and their dynamics and deadlines. This is not something new to them and I don't think that adding one round would make them lose interest. I do expect a drop in participation as well, but I can also expect people joining later, and in the end some balance. Anyway you can also see this as an addition to the current top format, to further explore, or try to fix, the bias of popularity. As said, they are independent voting processes.

@MissVicky

"But people aren't going to see it that way. They're going to see it as "If my vote's only going to count for 25% of what this other MoFo's vote is going to count for, it's not worth my time or effort.""
With that reasoning, people would have never voted obscure or less popular stuff on their lists at all. Why bother giving 25 points to this masterpiece of Somali avant-garde animation if I'm going to be the only one? Since I can't push it to the top100, my vote is futile.

Do people participate in these threads as a kind of competition to get their favorites there at all costs? Or do they participate because they are interested on building a collective list?

"But that specific premade list is still 100 movies and if you've only seen 25 of them, that's 75 movies you have to watch in four months to get your favorite to count for as much as someone else's - while still participating in the "Gazillion" other lists, tournaments, games etc. and still watching the unrelated movies you want to watch and... you know... dealing with non-movie related real life stuff like work and family. So again, if I'm someone who's only seen 25 of the "pre-set" list, it's not going to seem worth my while."
Again... so? That depends on the amount of time one decides to devote on it. Four months is, I think, a decent time length, but this is debatable. It can be longer or shorter according to preference.

Your argument of "dealing with other tourneys, lists or non-movie related stuff" is something so inherent to whatever activity we organize in this forum that I think it doesn't take place in this discussion at all. I can't say I see where you want to go with this. The same can be said for this one and the decade tops, the Halls of Fame, the tourneys... They all imply an effort and an involvement that some people will be able to bring and some won't.

Saw Up--maybe the only animated movie I've really watched--and I can't say I found it anything special. The graphics were good, there were a few good laughs, and the beginning was well done, but it was otherwise pretty dull.

That's not actually the same at all. What I'm talking about has to do with determining the order of list. Because at this point in the process that you suggest, it's already been determined whether or not that "masterpiece of Somali avant-gard animation" has made the list, it's just a question of where.

And sometimes people do decide to leave off more obscure or less popular films when voting in these countdowns in order to give more points to their favorites that stand a better chance of making the cut or because some people feel like EVERYTHING is a competition and want to have the most number of picks make it. And the opposite holds true as well, people often leave off the more popular titles so that they can give points to more obscure ones regardless of how much they actually like the films in question. I don't agree with either line of thinking, but everybody's free to determine their votes using whatever criteria they wish.

So it's like pulling teeth to get people to participate in a countdown that requires only one step because people have other things going on. Doing things your way is pointless. Maybe (and that's a big maybe), you'll get a more accurate picture of what those particular voters like best, but you'll lose participation in the process, so how accurate can it really be? Just a bunch of wasted time and effort.

Well, I feel like I'm endlessly pivoting around this topic and bringing the same reasons and the question is that I'm fighting preconceptions with preconceptions; we don't know how will this sort out but I certainly can't imagine a case scenario as outrageously apocalyptic as you describe. I can see some people losing interest, and some other people gaining interest just like in any other tourney/list/whatever idea in this forum. But then again, I can't further discuss without a solid basis. For a discussion based on speculation, I think this has gone long enough. So it's time to agree on our disagreement xD

Spirited Away was my number 1. Animation at its best, Miyazaki truly has a talent for creating the most imaginative atmospheres and storylines possible. A modern day Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland in terms of storytelling. And I really need to see it again. It's quite high on my personal favorites lists too, though I haven't seen it as much as some of the other films on my list. I think it achieves so much, and is also a fun movie to watch at the same time. I'd be surprised for anything to surpass it for me any time soon.

Wall-E was my #3. Not sure why exactly but i didn't take the time to watch this until my preparation for this countdown. To my moderate surprise it shot up into my all time Favourites, and somehow surpassed my top Pixar in Monsters Inc. Not much to add to whats been said already, but imo it's Pixars most beautiful film both Visually and Emotionally.

Lion King was my #10. My first favourite film i can remember, it is up there with Goodfellas, Back to the Future and The Goonies as my most watched film. Saying this it's pretty clear that childhood nostalgia played a major part in my ranking of it. Still it's a film i feel i will be connected to for life, i know it's quite cheesy but watching this with my nephew last summer and seeing how much he loved it put a big cheesy smile on my face.

Spirited Away was my #9. Another i put off before i compiled my list. Growing up my Sister was really into Miyazaki, oddly enough it was PM (now my favourite animated film) that she used to get me into it, if she had instead picked Spirited Away i feel like i would have a greater connection to it which would possibly propel it into my top 5. As usual it's a wonderfully animated picture, some of the scenes are just divine like the bath scene; and the scene of Sen flying with Haku. After PM turned up i was rooting for this or Wall-E, still good to see this as the highest ranking Foreign Film on a countdown.

Just for the record, like Yoda i really like Jals idea in theory but i doubt it would work very well here. When you look at the participants in either this or the 70s list (which had the most) you'll notice a number of semi-regulars, former regulars and people that don't post too much. I think getting a list of 25 from them is probably difficult enough without adding in a second vote to rank the ones they've seen. It also hurts alot of the younger members (like me if i'm still young ) and members with busy lives, who 4 months to explore the particular subject or Decade followed by a break while the countdown is on is perfect ( it is for me anyway), because of Work,School, Family, etc.

Another thing not brought up is that in alot of the Movie, Tv and Movie Character Tournaments, some people (SC) just vote in both matches whether they have or haven't seen it. How are we going to weed them out (SC ), give them a Mofo Quiz to see if they've actually watched all 100 or the amount they're claiming?

Either way i'd participate it, just bringing up a few of my concerns.

I am already used to that. I love Kreator, the German thrash metal band, and I don't get angry when that band doesn't show up on the covers of US/Canada music magazines like Rolling Stone or never wins the Grammy. It's just too good for the mainstream.

Why don't you make a top animations thread like I did with TV series and movies/OVAs?