Star Wars Movie Analysis - Why? I need Answers!

In the Star Wars movies it has been said that Anakin Skywalker



is prophesied as the "chosen one" and that he is the person who is "to bring balance to the Force". The reason for this is because of Anakin's exceptionally high midi-chlorian count, much higher compared to his Master(Sidious). Anakin had a count of over 20,000; even higher than Master Yoda.

After Anakin fell to the Dark side he bacame the sole apprentice of Darth Sidious



and thus became Darth Vader. Darth Vader remained a 'faithful' apprentice of Sidious until the last part of the story(Star Wars 6 - The Return of the Jedi). MY QUESTION IS WHY? Why did Vader allowed himself only second-in-command(apprentice) in the Sith Order?

Darth Sidious even admitted to Yoda that Vader had the potential to become twice as powerful as himself saying "soon Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!". Vader could have killed his master(Sidious) at anytime, established himself as a master and recruit an apprentice for himself (it should be remembered that it was a long time dream of Vader to become the ruler of the Galaxy). But he never did, WHY?WHY?WHY? Sith practitioners are notoriously known for being envious to their masters. Did Vader never felt enviousness toward his Master Sidious? I don't think so..

Yeah.. yeah.. I know Vader eventually killed Sidious, but he did it for his love of his son(Luke Skywalker)



but never with a motive of establishing his own Sith Order with him as a master.

Please! I need Answers!

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Because Darth Sidious knows more than him. The series often references the idea that talent is still second to things like knowledge and discipline. Raw talent cannot be taught, but it's not of much use unless honed. Darth Sidious may have less innate ability to control the force, but he has more knowledge of it, and more self-control, and thus is more powerful even than Anakin.

How appropriate that it was a guy called Yoda who answered this

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"When I was younger, I always wanted to be somebody. Now that I'm older, I realise I should've been more specific."

Yoda, your answer is very true but that doesn't answer my question. I think you missed the point of my question.. I want to know why Vader allowed himself only second-in-command(apprentice) in the Sith Order?

(Vader could have killed his master(Sidious) at anytime, established himself as a master and recruit an apprentice for himself. But he never did, WHY?WHY?WHY? Sith practitioners are notoriously known for being envious to their masters. Did Vader never felt enviousness toward his Master Sidious?) Why did Vader remained humble to his master? If we will follow the attitude of Anakin from the very start of the story we can see that humbleness is not in the dictionary of Anakin, simply its not the character of Anakin. I think it's ridiculous to think that Anakin learned humbleness from the Sith doctrine...

So please Yoda, tell me why..

But the answer I gave encompasses these questions, too: he's not as powerful as Sidious, so therefore he's second in command. Seems pretty straightforward to me.

The fact that he killed Sidious should not be misinterpreted to mean that he was his equal. Vader couldn't kill Sidious at any time, he could only kill him when he did. He doesn't overpower him, after all; he surprised him. Sidious lets his guard down out of arrogance, being entirely certain that Vader is on his side. He underestimates the good in him. I assume that this is the only way Vader could destroy him. A direct confrontation would have turned out differently.

And here's to being totally not retarded and grateful...

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First, the exactitudes of George’s story are not important. It is a work of ancient myth weaving (see Sir James George Frazer and Joseph John Campbell for basic compilations of ideas).

A lot of this goes back to 19th century esoteric interpretation on myth.

Anakin is in many ways the wounded king – or the fallen “angel” needing redemption. He is not a perfect reflection of this myth, but an adaptation by George.

Anakin is a wounded spirit. That is his fundamental role in the story. He will never achieve his desire to be the “boss” because that is not who he is – he is powerful, but made weak by his own inner conflicts and failings.

Luke is his rebirth, his redemption, and his legacy.

George does not give us a simple sci-fi story. He takes myths and concepts going back many thousands of years and that is what Star Wars is made from.

Sidious only has power over Anakin because he understands his psychology. Darth Vader could crush Sidious easily – if he only had the will to do so. (And Batman could kick Spiderman’s butt.)


Anakin was never much on “learning” the ways of the Force. With him, it is always intuitive – because it flows through him at such strong levels. The Force is not like learning magic. It is understanding the primal wellspring of all life – and Anakin has “higher concentrations” of that “ability” than any other recorded source – which is why he is assumed to be the prophesied “one”. But it is not he who returns balance to the Force.

So like a god and yet so horribly flawed – as humanity can think and create and yet are mortal and die. That is who Anakin/Vader is.

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R.I.P.

Originally Posted by GodsOtherMonkey

Yeah your right, thats why George Lucas is one of my favorite science fiction writers / directors. I have one disagreement with you though.. I think Anakin/Vader had fulfilled the prophesy of being the chosen one.

At first it seems that Anakin is not the chosen one, since he falls to the Dark side, and as Darth Vader, helps destroy the Jedi Order. However in Star Wars episode 6 - The Return of the Jedi, he redeems himself with his decision to stand against Emperor Palpatine, sacrificing himself to save his son, and finally destroying the Sith in the process.

Although Anakin turns to the Dark Side, he does eventually destroy the Sith (by killing Palpatine/Sidious, and then dying himself, as there are always only two Sith) and thus fulfilling the Prophesy that he would bring balance to the Force.

As I try the to analyze the story I came up with this idea that the Dark Side represents "imbalance" to the Force. Anakin eliminated the Dark Side of the Force by killing Darth Sidious and by dying himself. That's why I totally believe Anakin restored balance to the Force therefore fulfilling the the Prophesy.

I edited out the giant fonts. Let's keep things legible.

Thanks

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Funny, I came up with that idea too, because they directly state it in the films multiple times. This is not something that needed analysis, but to simply pay attention while watching the movies.


Also, you say you disagree with GodsOtherMonkey about one thing, but I don't see him stating what you are disagreeing with in any of his posts. AT what point did he state that Anakin did not restore balance to the force?

This is a clear and obvious point in the films that is not contested at any time.

With whom are you arguing this point?

Ah mr.moderator can you please read again the previous post of GodsOtherMonkey.. I think you missed something.

And if you say "I came up with that idea too, because they directly state it in the films multiple times." Well to tell you honestly I think I missed that part.

Where do we get the indictation that Vader could "crush" Sidious? Sidious basically fights Yoda himself to a draw.


The Force is, at times, a lot like magic. Count Dooku mentions to Yoda that their conflict cannot be "determined by our knowledge of The Force." Clearly there is an innate and mystical quality to it, but given that there's a highly specific training system involved, and the entirety of The Empire Strikes Back is based around the idea that the abilities it enables must be honed and perfected, it's quite clear there's a very large technical aspect to it. Just like any other talent, really.

AH, I see. I did indeed miss that.

My point stands about the concept of him bringing balance to the force is clearly discussed in the film, multiple times. It is discussed in all three prequels, I think, or at least two of them, I am sure. Really, they beat the idea into the ground. Here are some quotes from the film:

Obi-Wan: You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. You were to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness.
Anakin Skywalker: [shouts] I hate you.
Obi-Wan: You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you.

Obi-Wan Kenobi: With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
Mace Windu: So the prophecy says.
Yoda: A prophecy that misread could have been.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: He will not let me down. He never has.
Yoda: I hope right you are.

The above are from Episode III

Here are Qui-Gons last words in Episode I

"Obi-Wan, promise me you will train the boy. He…is the Chosen One…he will bring balance. Train him."

And words from Mace Windu in that same flick:

"You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force. You believe it's this boy?"

As for the argument, I believe you are correct, in that Anakin was indded the chosen one, even if it was luke that made him realize what he had to do in the end. Anakin restored balance to the force (not the universe, by the by), through the exceptional vision and courage of his son. Classic concepts, to be sure.

Here are multiple quotes from George Lucas himself, showcasing his clear intent with the issue.

Lucas: One of the themes throughout the films is that the Sith Lords, when they started out thousands of years ago, embraced the Dark Side. They were greedy and self-centered and they all wanted to take over, so they killed each other. Eventually there was only one left, and that one took on an apprentice. And for thousands years, the master would teach the apprentice, the master would die, the apprentice would then teach another apprentice, the master, and so on. But there could never be any more than two of them, because if there were, they would try to get rid of the leader, which is exactly what Vader was trying to do, and that's exactly what the Emperor was trying to do. The Emperor was trying to get rid of Vader, and Vader was trying to get rid of the Emperor. And that is the antithesis of a symbiotic relationship, in which if you do that, you become cancer, and you eventually kill the host, and everything dies.
- Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99

Lucas: The midi-chlorians have brought Anakin into being as 'the chosen one' who brings balance to the universe.
-The Making of Episode 1, Random House, 1999.

Lucas: Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor.
- CUT interview 09/07/99?

Lucas: Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrfice. - CUT interview 09/07/99


And....last but not least. Thanks for the negative rep for simply disagreeing with you.

Well there are many fans' speculations that Luke is the chosen one (GodsOtherMonkey could be one of them or maybe not), I only brought my arguments to my previous posts to clarify that Anakin is indeed the "chosen one", and still I believe this topic needs analysis.

Oh and by the way... Nice research, Im impressed! Seriously, I liked it.. One thumbs Up!

Hehe - fair enough!

I'd machine gun rep you if I could for bringing up Campbell. I listen to his lectures all the time on my iPod.

Anyway, to point.

I interpret the answer to be that if Vader would have overtaken Sidious then he would have been more evil and more powerful than Sidious.

I think that he had that inner turmoil of good vs evil going on inside of him and that this disallowed him from going too far in either direction (hence the 'balance' factor). Vader had, in effect, a governor (in the mechanical sense of the word) that moderated his actions to bring him to the right place and time to dispatch his master. All of this is indicative of things not being in the direct control of any of the individuals on the playing field (ie the prophecies, and fate and the Force).

Vader was too good to be all evil and too evil to be all good. he's actually the most geniune character in the whole saga.

I remind folks that there were three more movies to this story that have not been (will not be) made. We only got the first six.

Jedi twins, anyone?

I don't think Luke brought balance. I think that story remains untold.

Yoda is weaker than Anakin. And Sidious defeats Yoda - Yoda retreats. It is not a draw.

Yeah but the question was about Anakin... whose character does appear to played out.

But what actual evidence is there to suggest that the one who will bring "balance" to the force is not Anakin? Everyone refers to him as such, and he does something which seems to fulfill this prophecy very cleanly. The idea that it's actually Luke is speculation at best, and plain old fan fiction at worst.

There are some mitigating cirumstances, I think, but if Sidious defeats Yoda, then that actually makes my point all the more: Sidious is very powerful.

We've never seen anything to suggest that Yoda is weaker than Anakin, nor that Vader was stronger than Sidious.

Right - Luke didn't bring balance - Anakin did.

I think Lucas directly stating this as the intent of the story more than settles the argument on Anakin being the chosen one.

Also - Anakin bringing balance to the force at one point in time, does not mean more trouble cannot emerge at a later time, long after the death of both Vader and Sidious.

The revisionist stuff with Mara Jade, which pretty much places Vader in a more facade-like figurehead role doesn't work well with the revisionist material Lucas tacked on to the myth with the prequels. I feel Mara Jade was a cheap attempt at diminishing the older characters, and I was never really a fan of her story. Just sort of saying "Oh, those old stick-in-the-muds Vader and Palpatine we softies...this girl is REALLY the bad-ass behind everything.

Bad idea.